Debunking Gaming Latency Myths on Ryzen 7800X3D/9800X3D, Windows 11,RTX4090/5090

[Hyote]

What debloat do you use ?

Just NTLite, that's all you need. Making your own preset is best, as I found a lot of the pre-made presets remove a lot of dumb and unnecessary stuff that will make zero difference. For instance, the default NTLite "gaming preset" removes stuff like the screenshot snipping function.

Then some presets strip hundreds of older drivers. Again, what's the point? To save 500mb space while you run the risk of running into device compatibility issues down the line?

I think this is why a lot of the people write off de-bloating Windows, nobody does the work themselves and use what others provide. Not everyone has the same goals for their setup. I find the vast majority of the pre-made stuff out there is garbage and go way over the top and remove too much, which ends up with things breaking and basic things not functioning. They remove even very lightweight functional tools that are built-in. I've seen some presets that even remove Notepad/Calculator. It's just moronic the levels some of these people go to with some of these configs I've seen shared. I guess if you're starved for disk space on a 32gb hard drive it could make some practical sense?

A good preset takes care of unnecessary drivers, scheduled tasks and optionally adds settings that make the post setup almost instant. Do you have a public preset?

[soul4kills]

Is it really nonsense when the reality is that so many people do nothing and do not have issues with latency?
The rest of this is just outdated nonsense. Interrupts interrupt the cpu, nice, sounds like a real problem with a cpu with 16 threads.

The idea that no problem exists because majority of people take no action, I see that argument all the time, it's quite a stupid argument to make. "Many people" are not computer enthusiasts, so why would they do anything. What you're confused on is the fact that ignorance/perceptive capability = the problem doesn't exist. Majority of people don't even know a quarter of the features on their phone. And not everyone has 16 threads. Again the naysayers always think their personal setup is what everyone else is running and it's the only setup that exists. They really lack perspective. Just because you don't experience the problem doesn't mean other people are not.

The odd thing is you're on this forum about latency but you don't believe it's an issue. That's a really weird thing to do. Why are you here if you don't believe in the "nonsense". The fact that you're in this forum is the real nonsense.

[yehaw]

What debloat do you use ?

Just NTLite, that's all you need. Making your own preset is best, as I found a lot of the pre-made presets remove a lot of dumb and unnecessary stuff that will make zero difference. For instance, the default NTLite "gaming preset" removes stuff like the screenshot snipping function.

Then some presets strip hundreds of older drivers. Again, what's the point? To save 500mb space while you run the risk of running into device compatibility issues down the line?

I think this is why a lot of the people write off de-bloating Windows, nobody does the work themselves and use what others provide. Not everyone has the same goals for their setup. I find the vast majority of the pre-made stuff out there is garbage and go way over the top and remove too much, which ends up with things breaking and basic things not functioning. They remove even very lightweight functional tools that are built-in. I've seen some presets that even remove Notepad/Calculator. It's just moronic the levels some of these people go to with some of these configs I've seen shared. I guess if you're starved for disk space on a 32gb hard drive it could make some practical sense?

A good preset takes care of unnecessary drivers, scheduled tasks and optionally adds settings that make the post setup almost instant. Do you have a public preset?

If you think that's a good preset, then build/use what you want. Personally, I don't care about setup time, my ISO installs in under 5 minutes already with minimal removals and an unattended file on an NVME drive. Having fallback and compatibility drivers is more important to me than shaving a few seconds off the install process or making a smaller ISO file. Removing drivers is also not going to reduce latency or give you more fps. It's just going to cause problems if the system ever calls for those drivers. This is primarily to save disk space.

As far as post-setup, I'm not sure what you're talking about specifically? My ISO is setup where it loads everything including my drivers during the install process, as I slipstream them along with latest windows updates during the NTLite process. Only thing I do when I hit the desktop is install NVIDIA drivers and a browser from my USBC and I'm done. I have all my settings configured in NTLite to avoid changing 20 settings in Windows after fresh install, like clock, taskbar preferences, colors, wallpaper, etc.

My advice is build your own and stop using presets of others. It's not that complicated once you learn the tool. My second advice, stop focusing on removing everything possible. This is a very extreme approach that isn't worth your time. You will spend more time tweaking the thousands of settings, creating isos, finding broken aspects of system, repeating the process over and over. You should only be doing this if you're starved of disk space/memory, even then, I wouldn't recommend it for a daily driver.

[Hyote]

What debloat do you use ?

Just NTLite, that's all you need. Making your own preset is best, as I found a lot of the pre-made presets remove a lot of dumb and unnecessary stuff that will make zero difference. For instance, the default NTLite "gaming preset" removes stuff like the screenshot snipping function.

Then some presets strip hundreds of older drivers. Again, what's the point? To save 500mb space while you run the risk of running into device compatibility issues down the line?

I think this is why a lot of the people write off de-bloating Windows, nobody does the work themselves and use what others provide. Not everyone has the same goals for their setup. I find the vast majority of the pre-made stuff out there is garbage and go way over the top and remove too much, which ends up with things breaking and basic things not functioning. They remove even very lightweight functional tools that are built-in. I've seen some presets that even remove Notepad/Calculator. It's just moronic the levels some of these people go to with some of these configs I've seen shared. I guess if you're starved for disk space on a 32gb hard drive it could make some practical sense?

A good preset takes care of unnecessary drivers, scheduled tasks and optionally adds settings that make the post setup almost instant. Do you have a public preset?

If you think that's a good preset, then build/use what you want. Personally, I don't care about setup time, my ISO installs in under 5 minutes already with minimal removals and an unattended file on an NVME drive. Having fallback and compatibility drivers is more important to me than shaving a few seconds off the install process or making a smaller ISO file. Removing drivers is also not going to reduce latency or give you more fps. It's just going to cause problems if the system ever calls for those drivers. This is primarily to save disk space.

As far as post-setup, I'm not sure what you're talking about specifically? My ISO is setup where it loads everything including my drivers during the install process, as I slipstream them along with latest windows updates during the NTLite process. Only thing I do when I hit the desktop is install NVIDIA drivers and a browser from my USBC and I'm done. I have all my settings configured in NTLite to avoid changing 20 settings in Windows after fresh install, like clock, taskbar preferences, colors, wallpaper, etc.

My advice is build your own and stop using presets of others. It's not that complicated once you learn the tool. My second advice, stop focusing on removing everything possible. This is a very extreme approach that isn't worth your time. You will spend more time tweaking the thousands of settings, creating isos, finding broken aspects of system, repeating the process over and over. You should only be doing this if you're starved of disk space/memory, even then, I wouldn't recommend it for a daily driver.

I didn't mean setup time but post setup settings, like the ones in control panel, regedit, device manager, gpedit.
Also lol for the other parts because this is my own XML:
https://github.com/Hyyote/files-/blob/m ... /winxi.xml

And this is only the public version.

[yehaw]

Just NTLite, that's all you need. Making your own preset is best, as I found a lot of the pre-made presets remove a lot of dumb and unnecessary stuff that will make zero difference. For instance, the default NTLite "gaming preset" removes stuff like the screenshot snipping function.

Then some presets strip hundreds of older drivers. Again, what's the point? To save 500mb space while you run the risk of running into device compatibility issues down the line?

I think this is why a lot of the people write off de-bloating Windows, nobody does the work themselves and use what others provide. Not everyone has the same goals for their setup. I find the vast majority of the pre-made stuff out there is garbage and go way over the top and remove too much, which ends up with things breaking and basic things not functioning. They remove even very lightweight functional tools that are built-in. I've seen some presets that even remove Notepad/Calculator. It's just moronic the levels some of these people go to with some of these configs I've seen shared. I guess if you're starved for disk space on a 32gb hard drive it could make some practical sense?

A good preset takes care of unnecessary drivers, scheduled tasks and optionally adds settings that make the post setup almost instant. Do you have a public preset?

If you think that's a good preset, then build/use what you want. Personally, I don't care about setup time, my ISO installs in under 5 minutes already with minimal removals and an unattended file on an NVME drive. Having fallback and compatibility drivers is more important to me than shaving a few seconds off the install process or making a smaller ISO file. Removing drivers is also not going to reduce latency or give you more fps. It's just going to cause problems if the system ever calls for those drivers. This is primarily to save disk space.

As far as post-setup, I'm not sure what you're talking about specifically? My ISO is setup where it loads everything including my drivers during the install process, as I slipstream them along with latest windows updates during the NTLite process. Only thing I do when I hit the desktop is install NVIDIA drivers and a browser from my USBC and I'm done. I have all my settings configured in NTLite to avoid changing 20 settings in Windows after fresh install, like clock, taskbar preferences, colors, wallpaper, etc.

My advice is build your own and stop using presets of others. It's not that complicated once you learn the tool. My second advice, stop focusing on removing everything possible. This is a very extreme approach that isn't worth your time. You will spend more time tweaking the thousands of settings, creating isos, finding broken aspects of system, repeating the process over and over. You should only be doing this if you're starved of disk space/memory, even then, I wouldn't recommend it for a daily driver.

I didn't mean setup time but post setup settings, like the ones in control panel, regedit, device manager, gpedit.
Also lol for the other parts because this is my own XML:
https://github.com/Hyyote/files-/blob/m ... /winxi.xml

And this is only the public version.

What you shared is exactly what I described in my earlier posts as types of configs to avoid. I hope you have a strong router config removing such things like the windows firewall. And of course you have Notepad removed.

Nobody should be daily driving such a setup, but that's just my opinion.

[Hyote]

A good preset takes care of unnecessary drivers, scheduled tasks and optionally adds settings that make the post setup almost instant. Do you have a public preset?

If you think that's a good preset, then build/use what you want. Personally, I don't care about setup time, my ISO installs in under 5 minutes already with minimal removals and an unattended file on an NVME drive. Having fallback and compatibility drivers is more important to me than shaving a few seconds off the install process or making a smaller ISO file. Removing drivers is also not going to reduce latency or give you more fps. It's just going to cause problems if the system ever calls for those drivers. This is primarily to save disk space.

As far as post-setup, I'm not sure what you're talking about specifically? My ISO is setup where it loads everything including my drivers during the install process, as I slipstream them along with latest windows updates during the NTLite process. Only thing I do when I hit the desktop is install NVIDIA drivers and a browser from my USBC and I'm done. I have all my settings configured in NTLite to avoid changing 20 settings in Windows after fresh install, like clock, taskbar preferences, colors, wallpaper, etc.

My advice is build your own and stop using presets of others. It's not that complicated once you learn the tool. My second advice, stop focusing on removing everything possible. This is a very extreme approach that isn't worth your time. You will spend more time tweaking the thousands of settings, creating isos, finding broken aspects of system, repeating the process over and over. You should only be doing this if you're starved of disk space/memory, even then, I wouldn't recommend it for a daily driver.

I didn't mean setup time but post setup settings, like the ones in control panel, regedit, device manager, gpedit.
Also lol for the other parts because this is my own XML:
https://github.com/Hyyote/files-/blob/m ... /winxi.xml

And this is only the public version.

What you shared is exactly what I described in my earlier posts as types of configs to avoid. I hope you have a strong router config removing such things like the windows firewall. And of course you have Notepad removed.

Nobody should be daily driving such a setup, but that's just my opinion.

I do not really have Notepad removed, it works. And this is really just a template for what could be an objectively clean Windows without anything running that isn't directly related to gaming or browsing.

[Maelstrom]

Is it really nonsense when the reality is that so many people do nothing and do not have issues with latency?
The rest of this is just outdated nonsense. Interrupts interrupt the cpu, nice, sounds like a real problem with a cpu with 16 threads.

The idea that no problem exists because majority of people take no action, I see that argument all the time, it's quite a stupid argument to make. "Many people" are not computer enthusiasts, so why would they do anything. What you're confused on is the fact that ignorance/perceptive capability = the problem doesn't exist. Majority of people don't even know a quarter of the features on their phone. And not everyone has 16 threads. Again the naysayers always think their personal setup is what everyone else is running and it's the only setup that exists. They really lack perspective. Just because you don't experience the problem doesn't mean other people are not.

The odd thing is you're on this forum about latency but you don't believe it's an issue. That's a really weird thing to do. Why are you here if you don't believe in the "nonsense". The fact that you're in this forum is the real nonsense.

You are conflating two things - the level of expertise of an average user, versus how perceptive they are around these issues. It is completely reasonable to me that people who aren't knowledgeable about computers are able to determine when there is an issue with their latency.

The fact remains that the absolute lowest level life form, the professional gamer, is able to perform without any secret tweaks, and they do not notice such issues.
That alone is enough to suggest that there is no widespread/universal problem at a software/hardware level. I caveat this to also say that that doesn't mean I think the people on this forum are making up their issues, just that it can't be the case that the out of the box experience with the OS is that games are unplayable.

Your post just seemed exactly the kind of folklore this thread is trying to dispel - where is the data for those tweaks? Have there been actual experiments using those tweaks on modern hardware? Or is it being carried over from testing done years and years ago with a completely different OS and harware landscape? Probably.

It's plausable to me that users will set up a modern ryzen based system, encounter network issues or issues with a single bad component, and then go down the rabbit hole of tweaks that make things worse based on the kind of trust me bro advice that is often parroted here.

Honestly, 90 percent of the time any two people are talking about 'input lag' on this forum, you can be certain that they are talking about emtirely different phenemona, e.g. network lag, microstutter, poor performance, etc, and that neither have done the required basic diagnosing of the issue.

Personally I test on the most controlled environments I can, kovaaks and dedicated quake servers where my ping is constant and I'm playing against the same individuals, with visibility on my ping and jitter, so I'm able to tell if something is affecting real change.

[soul4kills]

You are conflating two things - the level of expertise of an average user, versus how perceptive they are around these issues. It is completely reasonable to me that people who aren't knowledgeable about computers are able to determine when there is an issue with their latency.

The fact remains that the absolute lowest level life form, the professional gamer, is able to perform without any secret tweaks, and they do not notice such issues.
That alone is enough to suggest that there is no widespread/universal problem at a software/hardware level. I caveat this to also say that that doesn't mean I think the people on this forum are making up their issues, just that it can't be the case that the out of the box experience with the OS is that games are unplayable.

Your post just seemed exactly the kind of folklore this thread is trying to dispel - where is the data for those tweaks? Have there been actual experiments using those tweaks on modern hardware? Or is it being carried over from testing done years and years ago with a completely different OS and harware landscape? Probably.

It's plausable to me that users will set up a modern ryzen based system, encounter network issues or issues with a single bad component, and then go down the rabbit hole of tweaks that make things worse based on the kind of trust me bro advice that is often parroted here.

Honestly, 90 percent of the time any two people are talking about 'input lag' on this forum, you can be certain that they are talking about emtirely different phenemona, e.g. network lag, microstutter, poor performance, etc, and that neither have done the required basic diagnosing of the issue.

Personally I test on the most controlled environments I can, kovaaks and dedicated quake servers where my ping is constant and I'm playing against the same individuals, with visibility on my ping and jitter, so I'm able to tell if something is affecting real change.

You still assume people even care to notice. Try to have some perspective and context. You keep thinking everyone is "you", like everything you do is what everyone else does. I think you fall into the category of people who are not capable of noticing that difference. If you don't notice it of course you're not going to believe it and think everyone else is crazy.

[yehaw]

The fact remains that the absolute lowest level life form, the professional gamer, is able to perform without any secret tweaks, and they do not notice such issues.

I don't think you have much knowledge on competitive scenes if you're saying things like this and trying to degrade people. Lots of the pros have to submit their configs and autoexecs for things like CSGO tournaments. The tournament organizers have special people to setup every machine up to players preferred settings and review submitted settings to make sure they follow tournament guidelines. Every tournament is different and I've even seen custom tools used in some tournaments. One app creator has this in their FAQ:

Is there a silent CLI mode for tournament setups?
Absolutely. Use TimerResolution.exe -max -hide to force the minimum tick without showing a window—perfect for LAN cafés or stage PCs.

Why do you think autoexecs are so popular with tweaked interp rates in online play for games like csgo? If you want to stick to default configs and system, that's fine, but please stop with the "there's no difference" because you're absolutely wrong.

Why do you think LAN events even exist? They want to cut out the latency that gives advantages that comes from network based online play.

Tweaking game configs is just part of it if you want to optimize your setup. You can tweak your OS, your network adapter, and even your router. Yes, it's not going to give you a huge advantages, but there are advantages to gain and you can stack them from different areas to give a pretty moderate advantages vs a stock setup.

I won't go into depth on every tweak I find useful (do the research yourself), but just to prove you wrong on your "do you have any data", here is a research paper on restrictive nat types (practically every consumer router ship with this on by default) affects things like hit reg.

I suggest you do some more in-depth research before drawing such conclusions in the future.

[Chief Blur Buster]

The fact remains that the absolute lowest level life form, the professional gamer, is able to perform without any secret tweaks, and they do not notice such issues.

*** Forum Rule Reminder PSA ***

It's fine to knock and criticize...

But unlike esports voice chat in a game, there's a red line involved especially since voice tones are not visible in text in the same way as audio (voice tone that sounds "derogatory war-league hate" vs voice tone that sounds "funny sarcastic humor singsongy" like harmless esports banter)...

Therefore, I need to remind forum members about the Blur Busters Forums rule of "no name calling" and "respect newbies" forum rules. Err on the side of caution since we have tons of countries reading these forums, and not everyone interprets words the same way.

Specifically these two listed rules:

- No fighting, no flaming, no name calling, no hate speech.