New 1080p 240hz IPS monitors. LG 27gn750, MSI MAG251rx, Asus TUF vg279qm/vg259qm.

[RLCSContender*]

How is 60hz performance in MAG251rx? Is the console-pc suitable for mixed use?

IGNORE the non-bolded words. Just focus on the BOLDED words since it answers your question. I copied and pasted that post from another thread i made.

MSI's backlight strobing is better since the crosstalk isn't as aggressive compared to ELMB-SYNC and MSI's strobing is useable under 200hz making it practical for adaptic sync AAA competitive titles. Another thing, the MSi has three overdrive settings and all you have to do is put it on "faster" and that is ENOUGH TO ACCOMODATE the MSi's refresh rate adaptive sync range from 44hz-240hz with little do no overshoot. It's REALLY THAT simple

which means if i want to play playstation 5 or xbox series x AAA title at 60hz, I CAN with my MSI and i still keep my insanely low input lag and a 3.0-3.1ms g2g average. Same thing with adaptive sync at 144hz, on it's "faster", it's still somewhat compliant at 144hz. if you want ZERO overshoot at 144hz, , switch down to "fast" and it will be 100% compliant with that refresh rate and at around 4.4-4.6ms g2g average which is EXCELLENT at 100-144hz for an IPS monitor, that is equivalent to the NANO IPS monitors for anyone wanting a poitn of reference. however on "faster" at 144hz it's still competent, just not optimal compared to "fast":

. Here's a point of reference, the best console monitor is the Gigabyte Aorus Fi27q-p/AD27qd/etc since it has one of the lowest g2g averages at 60hz and the lowest input lag among the IPS monitors at 60-120hz. It will have 120hz 1440p HDR and adaptive sync at the same time(most other high end monitors don't have these kind of perks). Guess what? the MSI shattered it. The only downside though is that the FI27q-p from gigabyte has 95% dci p3 so it will look more vibrant when playing playstation 5 or xbox series x titles. Then again 3ms response time at 60hz on an IPS monitor is INSANE with little to no overshoot is insane.

I had both the MSi and the Asus, and I chose the MSI because

1. 10 bit>>8 bit(1 billion colors (emulation since it's 8 bit+FRC) over16 million which means less color banding(more accurate colors), dithering, and smoother variances of all color ranges). And most important of all, less noticeable color uniformity. The Asus (especially if you are viewing whites, will start to have a yellow tint, so the 280hz asus will look like someone pissed on it. ThE MSI does have have this problem since it's color uniformity is superior.


2. MSI's overdrive implentation>>>>>>>Asus 280hz overdrive implementation. (all you gotta do is put it on "faster" and you are set for life. No need to touch overdrive ever again. Want to use console? no problem, "faster" there's virtually little to no overshoot at 60hz-120hz, which means 3.1ms response times and insanely low input lag(hardware unboxed was spot on). Want to play halo 6 on the xbox series x.
You want ZERO overshoot? no problem, "fast" is still a respectiable 4.4-4.6ms responses time which is still 100% complaint. For a point of reference, the "fast" response time is equivalent to the viewsonic elite xg270qg "standard" overdrive with variable overdrive g-sync ON on its 165hz overclocked refresh rate. The viewsonic nano is the fastest 1440p IPS monitor for anyone curious.

3. MSi's backlight strobing although is dim, there are easy work arounds. what I do is go to Nvidia control panel and simply adjust the brightness a few notches. Which means MPRT at 240hz is just as good (if not better) than ELMB-SYNC Just that i won't have "adaptive sync" on unison with it. But why would I care since adaptive sync has no practical uses at high framerates anyway, and that it will just introduce input lag as a tradeoff for less tearing(tearing at 240hz is imperceptible and will have zero impact on gameplay). The input lag adaptive sync will give however is MORE NOTICEABLE than the sublt and slight tears you may counter if you don't have adaptive sync.

all of the esports pros do NOT use adaptive sync due to input lag.

4. the MSI stand although is clearly inferior to the Asus, is not a problem. Just go to Amazon and purhcase a $24.99-$30.00 VESA. it's very easy to find them considering 24.5 inch monitors have plenty of compatibility of all the VESA stands.


5. 280hz elmb-sync, the MPRT 280hz asus wins by default since it will have better Motion Picture Response Time. and it's faster than virtually every TN not named the incoming 360hz g sync Tn coming out late this year. in my opinion, at these high framerates and refresh rates, there are diminishing returns to the point where MPRT will start to be redundant since motion blur at 240hz+ framerates is basically imperceptible for 99.999% of people and the margin of affect that it will have on a normal person is basically non-existent since. For me, i was unable to tell the difference on motion clarity on my 240hz MSI vs my 280hz asus w/ ELMB sync. This means that if playing against someone who has a competent 240hz monitor, ELMB-SYNC really won't be that much of an advantage since that person will also have good sharpness and clarity to fast moving objects. HOWEVER, if BOTH players are of equal skill, 280hz+ELMB SYNC will give that person a slight edge above ANY TN monitor.

6. PRICE #2.. $360 (the asus TUF vg259qm is cheaper though).

I put it as a draw but i ultimately chose the MSI. I just like the simplicity to not ever touch overdrive at "faster" ever again and that if i play a competitive playstation 5 or xbox series x title from 60-120hz, i'm still able to keep the 3.1g2g average and insanely low input lag since on "faster" setting, there's virtually little to no overshoot at lower refresh rates. Even on "fast" 4.4ms-4.6ms response time, there's 0 overshoot and 100% compliant with the refresh rate range which means no smearing. (unlike the asus where it's not even fast enough to accomodate 280hz at 20-30% complinace).


tldr; whichever is cheaper and is available get it. If u see a $300 price tag on the asus, buy the asus. otherwise buy the MSI.

i've tested almost efvery IPS monitor. the MSI is simply the best one. it's equivalent to the LG 27GL850-B that it has zero weaknesses and everything is ticked(HDR+backlight strobing+#1 in response time g2g average+#2 in colors(behind the 27gn750)+wide gamut at 10 bit(8 bit+FRC(the msi is the only 240hz ips monitor that has 10 bit 1 billion color capabilities).

THE BEST CONSOLE MONITOR which means it's future proofed and will be SUPER FAST playing competitive ps5 and series x games. When i tested my xbox one x on the MSI, i was able to have 1080p+120hz+VRR+HDR ON at the same time since its HDMI VRR range is 44-240hhz. All of the 240hz monitors have that feature FYI(except the alienware aw2521hf since it doesn't have HDR capabilities). , but I can attest that 60hz-120hz on "faster" is fucking legit on MSI. 3ms response times with virtually little to no overshoot on 60-120hz console?!!!, whoever tuned the overdrive setting for the MSi needs a raise. That's insane.

[jnashville]

"5. 280hz elmb-sync, the MPRT 280hz asus wins by default since it will have better Motion Picture Response Time. and it's faster than virtually every TN not named the incoming 360hz g sync Tn coming out late this year. in my opinion, at these high framerates and refresh rates, there are diminishing returns to the point where MPRT will start to be redundant since motion blur at 240hz+ framerates is basically imperceptible for 99.999% of people and the margin of affect that it will have on a normal person is basically non-existent since. For me, i was unable to tell the difference on motion clarity on my 240hz MSI vs my 280hz asus w/ ELMB sync. This means that if playing against someone who has a competent 240hz monitor, ELMB-SYNC really won't be that much of an advantage since that person will also have good sharpness and clarity to fast moving objects. HOWEVER, if BOTH players are of equal skill, 280hz+ELMB SYNC will give that person a slight edge above ANY TN monitor."

in CSGO, our framerates generally is above 300 fps on 1080P reso.

In regards to VG259qm, when we turn on ELMB sync, must we have adaptive sync on as well? probably only 20 percent of the time our fps goes below 280fps in different maps or locations. So when u mentioned the asus 280hz has the best MPRT, and "280hz+ELMB SYNC will give that person a slight edge above ANY TN monitor." what does it refer... elmb sync with adaptive sync or just 280hz and ELMB sync.

[RLCSContender*]

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if you're pushing above the 280hz refresh rate. TURN OFF everything. You cannot benefit from freesync/g sync compatiblity if the framerate is above the 280hz maximum. As a matter of fact, if you have it on, you will have more input lag while NOT being utilized.

ELMB-SYNC 280hz should only be used if you cap the framerate to 277hz. You will see no tearing and the crosstalk is basically eliminated since the higher the FPS, the better the monitor is. The lower the FPS, the worse it gets. The VG279qm benefits A LOT if the framerate is high, not when its low.

tldr;r if you are playing CSGO, you have FOUR options

1. 240hz, turn off gsync/freesync or any form of adaptive sync and leave the framerate uncapped (sadly, if a TN user is also at 240hz leaving his framerate uncapped, that TN will have an advantage because the asus isn't exactly the fastest monitor at 4ms g2g average, if you play like this, you're basically playing a slow TN with good viewing angles and accurate colors). This gives the least input lag and this is what the pros use.

if you intend to try this out, you might as well YOLO and turn the overdrive to 100. That is the ONLY way to compete with the TNs since overdrive 100 gives a TRUE 1ms response time(TFT measured it at 0.8 LoL). Just make sure you don't throw up when you see blue halos and artifacts from all the overshoot you will see(although it's less noticeable at 240hz). it's dooable though, u just have to get used to the artifacts(which isn't that bad at these kinds of refresh rates)

or

2. 280hz refresh rate with ELMB-SYNC ON and cap the game's framerate at 277hz. (this in my opinion is what i recommend if the framerate is above the refresh rate). If you are not using this feature but choose the contrary(240hz refresh w/ uncapped FPS), then you are at a major disadvantage against a TN player wh o has a midlevel TN monitor.

This will beat any TN monitor in MPRT while being faster than them, but expect slightly more input lag.

or

3. 240hz and cap the framerate to 237hz while turning on freesync/g sync compatible.

this is the option if u want buttery smooth gameplay with no tearing. This is the option most people use but i wouldn't recomend it if other players are using TN.

or

4. 240hz, cap the framerate to 237hz+turn on ELMB-SYNC. This will ensure you won't get tearing and you will have excellent motion clarity w/o the trade off of pixel smearing(undershoot) that may occur at 280hz.

This option gives buttery smooth gameplay while excellent sharpness and clarity from fast moving objects. This option however gives the most input lag.


STORY
When i used the Asus TUF VG279qm on rocket league, i used the 280hz ELMB sync on and capped the framerate to 277hz in game. I was basically untouchable because everybody else is stuck at 250hz with less motion clarity. I remember when i purchased the asus, it came with a dead pixel and played with it for a few hours and before i slept,m i packed it up back in the box that night so i can ship it back to amazon for a return in the morning. The next morning, i woke up played rocket league on a diferent monitor and lost like 4-5 games in a row(crappy teammates). I was pissed so I UNBOXED the Asus put it on my table and proceeded to win like 8 games in a row. That motion clarity made me subconsciously react way better since i'm able to see the ball way easier especially if everyone is moving in supersonic speed. these subconscious reactions are the reasons why i have the ASUS Tied with the MSI, it's simply a better monitor at high frame rates than the MSI, but the MSI is better at every thing else.
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unfortunately, after returning my asus, i wasn't able to repurchase or get a replacement from amazon because not only was it sold out everywhere but because of covid-19, The shipment date was insanely far away since they had to inspect the Asus packages coming from China if in case it has coronavirus

I was going to keep the monitor had it not have a dead pixel. But after thinking through every thing, i picked the MSI mainly due to how useful it is at lower framerates(particularly console gaming). When i purchase something, i want it to last me for 3-4 yrs and i just thought the MSI gave me the best option to uphold that criteria.

It basically came down to that 1 dead pixel as the reason why i own an MSI MAG251rx instead of the 280hz vg279qm asus

[jnashville]

Thanks for the input. However I am using 280hz now, uncapped fps and it's still great. Shots are registering same as when I was using the alienware aw2518h 240hz TN panel. Still smooth and clear with no apparent input lag that I can notice at all. Basically very smooth gaming experience.
Reason I bought this it's because its sorta upgrade from 240hz.. which is why I put it at 280hz.

[Blehhh]

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if you're pushing above the 280hz refresh rate. TURN OFF everything. You cannot benefit from freesync/g sync compatiblity if the framerate is above the 280hz maximum. As a matter of fact, if you have it on, you will have more input lag while NOT being utilized.

ELMB-SYNC 280hz should only be used if you cap the framerate to 277hz. You will see no tearing and the crosstalk is basically eliminated since the higher the FPS, the better the monitor is. The lower the FPS, the worse it gets. The VG279qm benefits A LOT if the framerate is high, not when its low.

tldr;r if you are playing CSGO, you have FOUR options

1. 240hz, turn off gsync/freesync or any form of adaptive sync and leave the framerate uncapped (sadly, if a TN user is also at 240hz leaving his framerate uncapped, that TN will have an advantage because the asus isn't exactly the fastest monitor at 4ms g2g average, if you play like this, you're basically playing a slow TN with good viewing angles and accurate colors). This gives the least input lag and this is what the pros use.

if you intend to try this out, you might as well YOLO and turn the overdrive to 100. That is the ONLY way to compete with the TNs since overdrive 100 gives a TRUE 1ms response time(TFT measured it at 0.8 LoL). Just make sure you don't throw up when you see blue halos and artifacts from all the overshoot you will see(although it's less noticeable at 240hz). it's dooable though, u just have to get used to the artifacts(which isn't that bad at these kinds of refresh rates)

or

2. 280hz refresh rate with ELMB-SYNC ON and cap the game's framerate at 277hz. (this in my opinion is what i recommend if the framerate is above the refresh rate). If you are not using this feature but choose the contrary(240hz refresh w/ uncapped FPS), then you are at a major disadvantage against a TN player wh o has a midlevel TN monitor.

This will beat any TN monitor in MPRT while being faster than them, but expect slightly more input lag.

or

3. 240hz and cap the framerate to 237hz while turning on freesync/g sync compatible.

this is the option if u want buttery smooth gameplay with no tearing. This is the option most people use but i wouldn't recomend it if other players are using TN.

or

4. 240hz, cap the framerate to 237hz+turn on ELMB-SYNC. This will ensure you won't get tearing and you will have excellent motion clarity w/o the trade off of pixel smearing(undershoot) that may occur at 280hz.

This option gives buttery smooth gameplay while excellent sharpness and clarity from fast moving objects. This option however gives the most input lag.


STORY
When i used the Asus TUF VG279qm on rocket league, i used the 280hz ELMB sync on and capped the framerate to 277hz in game. I was basically untouchable because everybody else is stuck at 250hz with less motion clarity. I remember when i purchased the asus, it came with a dead pixel and played with it for a few hours and before i slept,m i packed it up back in the box that night so i can ship it back to amazon for a return in the morning. The next morning, i woke up played rocket league on a diferent monitor and lost like 4-5 games in a row(crappy teammates). I was pissed so I UNBOXED the Asus put it on my table and proceeded to win like 8 games in a row. That motion clarity made me subconsciously react way better since i'm able to see the ball way easier especially if everyone is moving in supersonic speed. these subconscious reactions are the reasons why i have the ASUS Tied with the MSI, it's simply a better monitor at high frame rates than the MSI, but the MSI is better at every thing else.
^
^
unfortunately, after returning my asus, i wasn't able to repurchase or get a replacement from amazon because not only was it sold out everywhere but because of covid-19, The shipment date was insanely far away since they had to inspect the Asus packages coming from China if in case it has coronavirus

I was going to keep the monitor had it not have a dead pixel. But after thinking through every thing, i picked the MSI mainly due to how useful it is at lower framerates(particularly console gaming). When i purchase something, i want it to last me for 3-4 yrs and i just thought the MSI gave me the best option to uphold that criteria.

It basically came down to that 1 dead pixel as the reason why i own an MSI MAG251rx instead of the 280hz vg279qm asus

Are you waiting to test the XB253QGXbmiiprzx Acer Predator claims with 0.5ms. If so when do you think it be launch in amazon?

[forii]

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if you're pushing above the 280hz refresh rate. TURN OFF everything. You cannot benefit from freesync/g sync compatiblity if the framerate is above the 280hz maximum. As a matter of fact, if you have it on, you will have more input lag while NOT being utilized.

ELMB-SYNC 280hz should only be used if you cap the framerate to 277hz. You will see no tearing and the crosstalk is basically eliminated since the higher the FPS, the better the monitor is. The lower the FPS, the worse it gets. The VG279qm benefits A LOT if the framerate is high, not when its low.

tldr;r if you are playing CSGO, you have FOUR options

1. 240hz, turn off gsync/freesync or any form of adaptive sync and leave the framerate uncapped (sadly, if a TN user is also at 240hz leaving his framerate uncapped, that TN will have an advantage because the asus isn't exactly the fastest monitor at 4ms g2g average, if you play like this, you're basically playing a slow TN with good viewing angles and accurate colors). This gives the least input lag and this is what the pros use.

if you intend to try this out, you might as well YOLO and turn the overdrive to 100. That is the ONLY way to compete with the TNs since overdrive 100 gives a TRUE 1ms response time(TFT measured it at 0.8 LoL). Just make sure you don't throw up when you see blue halos and artifacts from all the overshoot you will see(although it's less noticeable at 240hz). it's dooable though, u just have to get used to the artifacts(which isn't that bad at these kinds of refresh rates)

or

2. 280hz refresh rate with ELMB-SYNC ON and cap the game's framerate at 277hz. (this in my opinion is what i recommend if the framerate is above the refresh rate). If you are not using this feature but choose the contrary(240hz refresh w/ uncapped FPS), then you are at a major disadvantage against a TN player wh o has a midlevel TN monitor.

This will beat any TN monitor in MPRT while being faster than them, but expect slightly more input lag.

or

3. 240hz and cap the framerate to 237hz while turning on freesync/g sync compatible.

this is the option if u want buttery smooth gameplay with no tearing. This is the option most people use but i wouldn't recomend it if other players are using TN.

or

4. 240hz, cap the framerate to 237hz+turn on ELMB-SYNC. This will ensure you won't get tearing and you will have excellent motion clarity w/o the trade off of pixel smearing(undershoot) that may occur at 280hz.

This option gives buttery smooth gameplay while excellent sharpness and clarity from fast moving objects. This option however gives the most input lag.


STORY
When i used the Asus TUF VG279qm on rocket league, i used the 280hz ELMB sync on and capped the framerate to 277hz in game. I was basically untouchable because everybody else is stuck at 250hz with less motion clarity. I remember when i purchased the asus, it came with a dead pixel and played with it for a few hours and before i slept,m i packed it up back in the box that night so i can ship it back to amazon for a return in the morning. The next morning, i woke up played rocket league on a diferent monitor and lost like 4-5 games in a row(crappy teammates). I was pissed so I UNBOXED the Asus put it on my table and proceeded to win like 8 games in a row. That motion clarity made me subconsciously react way better since i'm able to see the ball way easier especially if everyone is moving in supersonic speed. these subconscious reactions are the reasons why i have the ASUS Tied with the MSI, it's simply a better monitor at high frame rates than the MSI, but the MSI is better at every thing else.
^
^
unfortunately, after returning my asus, i wasn't able to repurchase or get a replacement from amazon because not only was it sold out everywhere but because of covid-19, The shipment date was insanely far away since they had to inspect the Asus packages coming from China if in case it has coronavirus

I was going to keep the monitor had it not have a dead pixel. But after thinking through every thing, i picked the MSI mainly due to how useful it is at lower framerates(particularly console gaming). When i purchase something, i want it to last me for 3-4 yrs and i just thought the MSI gave me the best option to uphold that criteria.

It basically came down to that 1 dead pixel as the reason why i own an MSI MAG251rx instead of the 280hz vg279qm asus

Nice tweaks.

What would be your recommendation for the Asus with FPS bellow 240? Like around 180-200? - I believe 280Hz will not be worth if I don't have fps around 280
And same question with MSI? Why msi is better for lower fps, and why is it worse with higher fps? it is abound halos?

I dont play with ELMB.

[Chief Blur Buster]

It's useful to note that lower-Hz ELMB-SYNC can be used too. For example, 144Hz. This is useful if your game runs at an average of ~150fps so it looks better at 140fps capped 144Hz ELMB-SYNC

Also, the differential varies depending on the capping precision. If you use RTSS capping, sometimes it works great with a 279 or 279.5 cap. If you use a very inaccurate in-game cap, you may need a bigger differential, such as 270 or 275. The 3fps differential for VRR is just a boilerplate recommendation based on the common G-SYNC 101 advice.

It's derived from the fact that capping is imperfect -- a 140fps cap means some frametimes are 1/130sec and some frametimes are 1/150sec. So one frametime gets the VRR treatment and the other frametime gets the fallback sync technology (e.g. VSYNC ON latency or VSYNC OFF tearing). You want to make sure you have infrequent tearlines with your cap, ideally. Some caps are more accurate than others. In-game capping is sometimes more inaccurate but lower lag, while RTSS capping is more precise but slightly laggier (but still less lag than uncapped "GSYNC with VSYNC ON fallback")

Indeed, the best way to treat ELMB-SYNC is treat it as an easy low-lag fixed-Hz ELMB.

Find games that runs at fps>Hz, and cap ELMB-SYNC so you're playing in the sweet spot. It looks like VSYNC ON with fixed-Hz ELMB, except lower-lag. Basically you're using ELMB-SYNC as a low-lag VSYNC ON alternative for your fps=Hz games that you want silky smooth motion blur reduction. It's much, much, much easier than RTSS Scanline Sync (an advanced mode recommended for fixed-Hz blur reduction), and has similar lags-saving benefits.

[Jasa]

IIRC on the vg279qm at least ELMB and ELMB-SYNC force on OD 80 which on below 240hz has a very noticeable amount of inverse-ghosting, which kind of sucks because that rules it out as something that can succeed my aging VG248QE lol. I just wanted a 240hz monitor doing 144hz strobing for the overhead benefits!

[Arch]

Hello kind sirs.

I read everything you guys said but I still wanna ask.

I'm a League of Legends (Master tier) player and I'm going to buy a new monither, either the MAG251RX or the AW2521HF. I'm also a fighting games man that plays FighterZ and some others 60Hz games most of the time. As you understood, I want the best of both worlds. A monitor that performs well at 240Hz and 60Hz. The alienware kinda looks nice tho. Which one should I choose?

Thanks a lot!

[Chief Blur Buster]

Are you wanting to do 60Hz via PC or via console?

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If you're playing PC-based 60Hz, there's another trick: 60fps at 240Hz variable refresh rate, looks exactly like 60fps@60Hz, but at lower latency than fixed 60Hz (on either a 60Hz or 240Hz panel). So for your 60fps games, I recommend 240Hz with VRR enabled. That makes your 60Hz PC games ultra-low latency. Low-capped VRR (60fps at 240Hz) feels like a lagless VSYNC ON mode of sorts -- it's really fast, 60Hz refresh cycles are transmitted to the monitor in 1/240sec.

_______________

Now, if you connect a fixed-Hz 60Hz console:

One problem with many 240Hz panels is that the panel refresh is not synchronous to the cable scanout at lower Hz. So that adds some input lag.

Not all pixels on an LCD refreshes all at the same time. Pixels are delivered one pixel at a time, left-to-right, top-to-bottom, as in high speed videos of LCD refreshing. This is how a two-dimensional picture is delivered over a one-dimensional video cable.

For lowest lag, the cable scanout is synchronous to the panel scanout, so the panel can refresh in realtime almost straight off the cable with minimal processing latency (rolling window processing).

But, there are some panels that only refresh at full velocity (e.g. can not "Sweep" the LCD slower than 1/240sec). Which means that monitor's motherboard has to buffer a slow-scanning 60Hz refresh off the cable, before it begins refreshing the 240Hz-only panel. That's essentially a scan-conversion behavior (changing the speed of the scanout). So that adds latency to a lower-Hz signal.

In other words, some LCD panels are horizontal-scanrate multisync, and other LCD panels are horizontal-scanrate fixed (requiring buffering at a non-native Hz).

ASUS XG258 or XG248, as far as I know, are horizontal-scanrate synchronous to the input signal. This makes that panel an unusual specimen in being low-lag 240Hz and low-lag 60Hz. Not all 240Hz monitors are low-lag for 60Hz gaming consoles. If you need a 240Hz monitor that is also low-lag for PlayStation and XBox, then the XG series are the ones to get.

VRR is treated a bit differently. That said, be noted there can still be scanout-buffering lag with 120Hz VRR on a fast-scanout-only 240Hz LCD panel (an LCDa panel with fixed max horizontal scanrate). It's only minor (~4ms worstcase, the differential between 1/120sec and 1/240sec) for the latency differential of the most-lagged portion of the scanout (top vs center vs bottom). That is tiny enough not to worry about. It's more noticeable for 60Hz because the buffering differential is bigger (1/60sec vs 1/240sec is ~12ms difference).