Blur Busters Forums

I have both the XL2546k and Acer 390hz. My issue with acer is pretty much only related to how much less "popping" the colors are in games specifically, as in, it's noticeably more unclear compared to the 2546k. In aimtrainers, or games where you can pretty much customize things to make it look neat colorwise and easy to see, the monitor becomes by far the better choice thanks to the added smoothness. If you're playing games that are inherently clearer, it's very noticeably better. I'm not a TAC fps kind of guy, so I have no opinion on how good it is there, but Valorant seems like a pretty clear game by default, so it should be pretty good there I would imagine at least. Reaching the fps requirement should be far more doable as well compared to other titles. The 2546K really shines in clarity (not in terms of motion blur), just how easy it is to discern things you see on your screen. The motion blur difference is very noticeable to me, it is a step down from the Acer for sure, but overall in games where clarity sucks (apex for example, even OW) the 2546K just feels better since at the end of it all, being able to see people clearly without any issue is of higher importance. I have tried every single setting you can possibly think of, for the Acer monitor, since it SHOULD be better for every game, absolutely, but I can't find a way to make it as clear overall as the XL2546k. No matter what.


There's also the fact that the 2546K has a nice sharpness slider to it as well, which surprises me that no other monitor company has. The "Super Sharpness" setting on the Acer is a joke. Nobody wants jagged edges, it looks complete trash and only ruins the immersion. Ideally, we get a zowie monitor @360/390hz that is actually in line with the competition at motion blur as well (among 100 other things too). The 2546k is not even great in that aspect either, comparatively to other 240hz monitors. It's just a great monitor in terms of clarity, which is super important (to me at least) when playing competitive games.

zhero wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 20:01

one thing to note, i think the acer at 390hz is a tad clearer in the ufo test by the naked eye without strobing compared to the xg2431. with strobing the xg2431 wins definitely. that's just my first impression. i think the acer would've been even nicer with a stronger strobe light setting as mentioned earlier because even for me the viewsonic at ultra pure xp is viewable with my lights on, not as bad as people mentioned.

Makes sense, higher refresh rate is always sharper than lower. 390Hz just has more ghosting/smear to it. Also if u use 960 speed preset 390fps will move at 780pps while 240 at 960pps (see more here). That's something to keep in mind when comparing.

XG2431 at 120Hz with custom PureXP at 31% (or Normal) will have same MPRT as Acer at 390Hz, meaning they will look about the same. But XG will be almost completely free of artifacts like ghosting making it a bit clearer. In other words that's how would non-strobed 390Hz fast IPS look like if it had instant response times (like OLED). At 240 Hz and PureXP Normal you have the motion sharpness of non-strobed 800Hz, but at this high refresh rate there is some crosstalk and double imaging.

daviddave1 wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 11:07

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 10:50

The numbers also tell us that Acer Nitro 390hz doesn´t even belong to top 10 most responsive monitors on rtings, pixel response time wise. The top 10 is obviously full of Oled and TN screens, from 120hz to 240hz (so the 390hz can´t even make up for it)


Cheers

Maybe I am not looking at the right lists. But both on https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/mo ... ponse-time an d https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag the monitor is in the top 4

EDIT Ah i see what u mean. You have to sort the row on Black Frame Instertion But then still its on place 4. See https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag then sort the row BFI

EDIT 2 Or do u mean sort on Response Time @ Max refresh Rate Total Response time? https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tools/table/77331 Then its not in the top 10.

Yes! total response time is what matters as even Rtings reckons, that´s what you will effectively "feel" with your eyes

axaro1 wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 12:36

Discorz wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 07:03

Now it looks to be around 40% on, 60% off duty cycle for VRB Extreme.

Absolutely correct, 60% off duty cycle according to RTings Backlight graph.

I'm surprised to see that, with OD Normal, it has the lowest response times and total response times mode with no overshoot among the other 360hz monitors tested by RTings, I thought that the AW2521H would beat the XV in this aspect.

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 10:50

The numbers also tell us that Acer Nitro 390hz doesn´t even belong to top 10 most responsive monitors on rtings

The numbers also tell us that in that top 10 there are 7 LCD and 3 OLED and all 7 LCD panels suffer from overshoot to a degree, response times ranking is a meme when Rtings itself claims that 8.6% avg overshoot for some monitors is unusable and 23% Overshoot on the G9 is "the best mode".

https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/up ... -large.jpg
https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/OT ... -large.jpg
https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/OO ... -large.jpg
https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/0I ... -large.jpg
https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/Sp ... -large.jpg
https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/Kk ... -large.jpg
https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/Qo ... -large.jpg


Don't take their rankings too seriously, just use that site for their response time tables and graphs.

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 10:50

Wich explains why no relevant Elite player is using it.

The guy currently Rank #2 in R6s (Spoit) is using it as his main right now (he's streaming as I'm typing this), he was previously using the 2546K, I asked him on stream what he thinks about the XV252QF (he's using it at 360hz because R6S is buggy).

He said that the 2546K is indeed clearer but the difference in smoothness and latency is absolutely worth the upgrade.

Nice... one player... on a game that isn´t even that important anymore. Tell me when a valorant or apex or CS top player/streamer uses the Nitro

As for the rest, yeah now "rtings response times doesn´t matter". Sure. The only numbers that matter are the ones that fit our narrative right

planart wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 13:23

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 10:50

But it is also far from the best of the best models for competitive play. Wich explains why no relevant Elite player is using it. Think about it

Cheers

Yes. This review fully explains why Elite players and professional gamers around the world are opting for this instead. Think about it

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... st-results

Well tbh those numbers show that even without any overdrive setting or strobing, it is still faster

BUT, I didn´t even mention that model. Yes a lot of players use it, but YES, a lot of players already using the IPS XG2431 (outside of Europe), Omen X or other amazing TN 240hz panels different from the Benq. Sill if I had to choose? Benq any day over the Acer Nitro. Not even debatable. Easy to see wich one is clearer, by a mile.

Do you consider Aceu or tenz good aimers? (you better do, because they are amazing). Go check their thoughts on 360hz monitors. Tenz had one for 1 month and went back to his TN. If you think these guys making thousands of dollars by playing videogames are all wrong, Idk what to say. These do not fool around, they want performance.

And I will repeat once again. No one should return the Nitro because it is not a bad monitor. It is just wrong to consider it top tier for competitive gaming, like you guys did on this thread, to an unhealthy point. There are A LOT (not only 1 or 2) of better options. And cheaper too!

On a side note, I knew optimumTech tests were flawed. Not only because I tested a lot of the monitors he reviewed myself, and his graphs didn´t make any sense to me (like XL2546k strobing only adding 1ms of input lag wtf??? On rtings it has double input lag on that mode and you can clearly notice it yourself, easily). But also because I watched his Mice input lag tests where Razer Viper Mini is amongst the 2 most responsive mice. And that is laughable because I have one and it is not even faster than a MM720 plus the sensor is a mess. But that´s for another topic.

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2022, 05:10

Nice... one player... on a game that isn´t even that important anymore.

He's arguably currently the best mechanical R6s player consistently hitting rank 1 every single season, the state of the game doesn't matter and doesn't prove your point.


On stream he said that the 2546K is still clearer than the XV252QF (as expected) but he prefer the Acer and mind you, R6s is one of the most clarity dependent games that you can play where seeing a single dot behind a bullet hole can make the difference between winning or losing a fight.
It's also one of those games that massively benefits from motion blur reduction due to how well it reduces recoil induced screen shaking.

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2022, 05:10

Do you consider Aceu or tenz good aimers? (you better do, because they are amazing). Go check their thoughts on 360hz monitors. Tenz had one for 1 month and went back to his TN.

Tenz also doesn't rate dyac which is the only reason why someone would get a 2546K (because unstrobed performance is terrible unless you use Freesync that forces AMA High to behave slightly better than AMA OFF, you can test it yourself)


I agree about his take on 360hz, having more hz with lower clarity is not necessarily better but, at least for my VG259QM, 280hz ELMB was good at reducing the drawbacks of a higher refresh rate with an IPS and I'm confident that it will be the case with the Acer aswell.

I'll get a better idea about the Acer when I'll get my hands on it, to me it doesn't make sense to pay +50/100€ to get a 46K compared to this but I surely need to test it to get a better idea, let's see how it stacks up against the Zowie.

Notty_PT wrote:

planart wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 13:23

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 10:50

But it is also far from the best of the best models for competitive play. Wich explains why no relevant Elite player is using it. Think about it

Cheers

Yes. This review fully explains why Elite players and professional gamers around the world are opting for this instead. Think about it

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... st-results

Well tbh those numbers show that even without any overdrive setting or strobing, it is still faster

Why would anyone use a gaming monitor without any overdrive setting though?

Benq is true, somewhat quicker without any overdrive. Yet at the same time, nothing to write home about. But even the first stage of overdrive (AMA) introduces a lot of overshoot error.

Benq AMA high https://i.rtings.com/assets/pages/odyv0 ... -large.jpg

Where with Acer any sensible person would activate at least the normal overdrive mode on, because it has zero negatives. And even in that state, all the numbers are clearly more positive with Acer.

Acer OD Normal: https://www.rtings.com/assets/pages/aQV ... -large.jpg

I own both of these currently. I personally very highly prefer the Acer. Image quality, strobing, everything. Great.

But I have to say, no matter what the review numbers say, in actual use Benq remains a tad sharper in motion if ama + dyac is enabled. Even with the slight overshoot. It's a well optimized combination I have to admit. It's not a huge difference, but it's there and noticeable. You don't win any extra games with it. Unfortunately I personally can not use dyac. Idk what it is about this storbing tech specifically, but i get instant headache and eyestrain. Without dyac I don't have a single reason why I would like this TN better. It's actually quite bad for the price imho.

I'm quite sure it's the most popular model because monitor is really just "icing on the cake" to support true game skills. And It's certainly "good enough". It's sponsoring many LAN events so players want the same gear that's used in the arenas. Pros tell other pros "yeah its good, buy the zowie". Tryhards then look what the pros use and buy the same. Soon you have a cult following and it's not so much about the actual performance anymore. Best things in the world rarely are the most popular ones.

It can sneak up on you. Then at some point true enthusiasts actually wake up and ask, how the heck is musician x topping charts, or why is this movie so popular, or why are these professional music makers all using Beats headphones. It becomes a brand or a cult of sorts. It's not about the actual art or technical performance anymore. I actually do think this is Zowie's way of staying relevant in the esports market. Would not be surprised if they payed sweet sums for professional gamers and organizations to use and promote their monitors. Because me personally, I don't believe the actual performance is the true reason.

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

23 Feb 2022, 05:10

daviddave1 wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 11:07

Notty_PT wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 10:50

The numbers also tell us that Acer Nitro 390hz doesn´t even belong to top 10 most responsive monitors on rtings, pixel response time wise. The top 10 is obviously full of Oled and TN screens, from 120hz to 240hz (so the 390hz can´t even make up for it)


Cheers

Maybe I am not looking at the right lists. But both on https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/mo ... ponse-time an d https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag the monitor is in the top 4

EDIT Ah i see what u mean. You have to sort the row on Black Frame Instertion But then still its on place 4. See https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag then sort the row BFI

EDIT 2 Or do u mean sort on Response Time @ Max refresh Rate Total Response time? https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tools/table/77331 Then its not in the top 10.

Yes! total response time is what matters as even Rtings reckons, that´s what you will effectively "feel" with your eyes

Tnx Notty_PT!! I appreciate the wisdom u share! From now on I will use this method on Rtings.

Still: When u only look at the 24/25 inch models: the Acer 390 hz is still on nr. 2 on the list. Only the ASUS TUF Gaming VG249Q1A
tops it.
On https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tools/table/77331 select max 25'' then sort on Response Time @ Max Refresh Rate Total Response Time to check this. ( Please let me know if u know a other 24/25 inch model that's faster that is not on that list!)

after 800h of panel time,TN will always be a GOD 4 IPS..
(this is my humble opinion)

my previus 1440p 144 tn (23,8!!!!) is a 6yo monster with almost the same max VTs as this 390hz thingy
+ higher ppi makes images looks so much better..so my personal opinion is,
first and most important thing you need 2 look when deciding which new panel you need 2 buy,
is PPI..

everything else is kinda good but not crucial..

most noticable thing this panel did 2 me,
is that i can not stand anything thats bellow 200hz anymore..2 be nitpicking lets say 175-180hz..

4me 0 diffrence with VRB or MBR or whatever ONvsOFF
and i preffer OFF..

MPRT is the same(???)blur is d same(???)vs my old tn, my personal opinion 2 explain that is not having 500fps+ in 4v4,5v5 situation,amount of blur is almost the same,
even thou animations are smoother and more fluid=final result is almost the same..

i want 2 explain 500+ thingy..

in 1v1 scenario where i have 500+ fps this panel shines..
in any other scenario..200-320fps range..i dont c any difference vs my old tn


1 thing thou thats unmatched is response time in click 2 photon thingy..
i am gonna give HB(humanbenchmark) example..
with my tn my max is arround 145..usualy howering around 160
(depends on my mood or did i use my favorite halflings leaf,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY-95DR ... el=chrisnu )

and on Acer thingy is faster so my personal best is 133!
usualy howering around 145-150..
it also can be realted on second thought with different mouse on each panel.
i am on viper8k now,on tn i was on G305 wirelles..
i am gonna retest that with viper on tn..i want 2 be certain..

and i want 2 go back 2 my first statement,regarding TN vs IPS..

i am pretty certain i ma gonna hop on into metaphysics realm here'..

but its like first time i pluged in this thingy,it reminded me of 1 app,
that Discorz man who opened this thread,shared 2 me..

its something with BFI on software level thingy..so when you start that app or whatever it is..
you get a some sort of a grid in perfect squares planted onto your current image..
that was d feeling i had when i first pluged in this thingy..

it didnt had that light source behind it,it didnt had that explosion of crystal clear images
it was like welcome 2 d dark side..it was like i am gonna give you this,but i ma gonna take all of this, kinda experience.

and also regarding metaphysics..
my personal opinion is that all of those new ips thingys all across all d different brands
all of those new panels are done by "AI" everything is fully automated and nothing is done by humans..

best way 2 describe is, with pizza example..

every1 loves pizza,and when you wanna order 1 you will order from italian restourant..
why?

bcs 1 of the secrets of good pizza is a brick oven using wood 4 fire,
other secret is special flower and how they prepare it before making into pizza
amount of time 2 make 45-90mins
and so on and so on..
human hand involved in more than 50% of process
(TN)
and on d other hand u have tipical fast food pizza..
electrical owen Walmart flower
amount ot time 2 make 7-12 mins..
human hand involved in 3-10% time in process
(IPS)

both of them are pizzas,or are they?




2 conclude this in d lack of a better term observation..

my new panel will be either new QD OLED Alienware or new Samsung G8 QD OLED
depends on rewies..

and if that fails..

ezz sell that + ezz sell this 390thingy
going back 2 my good old 1440p..
and just waiting untill new tns 480+ amerge..

I would stop taking advice from these Pro players. They are generally very young adults/ kids that honestly don't know very much. Many of them are actually not very tech savy at all. Most couldn't build a PC by hand.

They also tend to use the same equipment as other fellow pro players. They will all likely continue to use the X546k/240hz until the majority of these players make any change to their setup and word of mouth says something is better. It took a strong following to convince them a couple years ago to move from 144hz to 240hz. Some of them still use 144hz. Some of them still don't like IPS displays. At that point, its just preference. They use what is working for them.

They are top players with the equipment they currently use. If you were placing on leaderboards and making a living doing it, why would you take a risk and change what you are using?

Good old TN vs IPS debate.

Here's a random response vs response direct comparison (from Rtings). These are without overdrive because its more apples to apples way of comparing raw panel responses. On top of these overdrive is added and tuned. We can see at some transitions TN is faster and at some IPS and some are the same. On average it ends up very similar. Good overdrive tuning in the other hand can make one faster than the other.

Here are originals if someone wants to zoom in: TN, IPS and OLED
We also have these in heatmap form: TN, IPS

These are TN AUO M250HTN01.8 (XL2546K), IPS AUO M250HAN01.7 (VG259QM)

daviddave1 wrote: ↑

22 Feb 2022, 08:48

PiCKiN wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2022, 18:56

axaro1 wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2022, 17:45

PiCKiN wrote: ↑

21 Feb 2022, 16:42

Did you guys see the comment someone posted at rtings for this monitor? Lol

There is 0.2ms variation between this monitor and the two other 360hz monitors tested, absolutely unusable

I just ordered the XV252QF, maybe I will make a video comparing 280hz strobing with 390hz strobing, I was a little bit worried because I saw a guy complaining about input lag early in this thread (which was debunked by this last finding + optimum tech and fr33thy results) and someone saying that it was a terrible monitor for Overwatch (I know an EU Contender player consistently top 50 that uses it as his main).

My issues with both the 2546K and VG259QM were that I either had to strobe with overshoot or there was no point in strobing at all, OD locked for the Asus and AMA Off on the Benq was suboptimal, AMA high and Premium were similar to OD80 with the Benq hiding overshoot slightly more due to the insanely long strobing window [ 83.3% vs ~70% on the Asus].

Can't wait to test it in Overwatch and Apex.

Awesome! Let us know how you end up liking the monitor. Would you not recommend the XL2546k for someone that already owns the Acer 390hz? I main PUBG right now and I never reach 390 fps in this game. I really wanted to try the Benq but idk if it’s a smart move for what it cost.

Yes, for PUBG the XL2546k is better. There is no other game then PUBG where visibility is such a huge factor.

TGLTN pro PUBG player was ranting pretty hard in his stream after he had to play on a sponsored IPS 360 hz Alienware on a Korean PUBG tournament and lost early on. TGLTN ranted that he does not care about beautiful colors or inputlag in PUBG when there is motionblur. The Dyac and the TN panel on the Zowie XL2546K where essential for the lowest motionblur and best clarity possible. He literally said IPS is crap for PUBG. I don't think he only said that cause he just lost in the tourney.

I remember playing PUBG on the Zowie XL2546K the visibility was extremely good.

The colors of IPS displays are only superior on the esthetic side.

On the TN Zowie XL2546K u can change the colors and sharpness making the enemy's stand out like nothing else. It reminded me of a extra digital vibrance setting to make the enemy's "pop out" so they can't hide in the darkness or somewhere else.
For visibility (and thereby tracking the enemy's) the colors on the TN Zowie XL2546K are way better then the colors the IPS panels generate.

On most IPS panels u can't adjust the colors or sharpness. On the IPS Acer 390hz u can adjust the colors a little. But because of the low brightness the motion blur reduction (VRB) gives u not really notice it. Plus these settings cannot be saved! (Its a bug!)

On the IPS Acer 390hz with VRB on extreme there is more blur then on the TN Zowie XL2546K Dyac plus with VRB on extreme the Acer 390hz is not very bright.

If u only play PUBG and no other games the XL2546K is the best I think: U see enemies the best.

Also keep in mind: AUO is working on a 24.5" 1080p 360Hz TN panel for a while now. https://tftcentral.co.uk/news/au-optron ... -july-2021 Zowie wont be using IPS imo. The difference in sight is to big compared to TN. So they will prob. again use a AUO TN panel.

When Zowie comes out with a 360/390/hz TN DYAC I will definitely give it a try. It will be the best of both worlds.

I asked Zowie on 9 feb. 2022 the following on https://twitter.com/ZOWIEbyBenQUSA/stat ... 1191024642
"@ZOWIEbyBenQUSA
I know u probably can't say anything about it, but I am kinda desperate: Can u give any info about a TN 360 1080P DYAC monitor, is there any possibility we can see this monitor in 2022?"

the answer:
"hi, thanks for your understanding about i can't say anything for our future product plan
but we do keep developing new product, hope we can have good news to share in the near future ^_^ "

Thanks for the reply dude. I was able to get the XL2546K for $200 on OfferUp. What monitor settings do you recommend?