Blur Busters Forums

speancer wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2020, 14:37

PixelDuck87 wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2020, 11:43

If what they measured is correct then it's nowhere near ready for 280hz. I was 90% ready to pull the trigger on VG259QM before the review,
now just gonna have to wait and see what Benq brings out in September.
I'm still sitting on my trusty xl2411z (210hz OC) so pretty much anything would be an upgrade for me, yet I got burned once with a VA and I don't want it to happen again...

Well, if we look at the raw measurements from RTINGS for VG259QM, it indeed seems to be not ready for 280 Hz, as the refresh rate compliance seems to be rather poor:



However, RTINGS also state in their review that motion is extremely clear and there is almost no blur at all in practice:



TFT Central actually say something very similar in their VG279QM review:



Hardware Unboxed also state basically the same thing in their review, saying that using 280 Hz, regardless of the imperfect refresh rate compliance, is in practice "a slight step up from 240 Hz":



Now, note that these other popular and trustworthy reviewers, like the two I mentioned above, actually present their refresh rate compliance with "+1 ms" as well (as seen on the pictures), so I guess that one more added millisecond is an acceptable leeway that doesn't have much impact on blur perception in practice. If we add that +1 ms leeway to RTINGS measurements like other reviewers do, then we get 24 out of 30 rise/fall transitions they measured within refresh window, so it's 80% refresh rate compliance for rise/fall times (80% GtG). That's already much better result, and it's closer to what other reviewers measured.

Also, note that Hardware Unboxed and TFT Central measurements for VG279QM are similar to each other, and they are also close to what RTINGS measured for VG259QM, but RTINGS got better test results for VG279QM then the other two reviewers for some reason (in terms of response times, for example). Regardless, RTINGS say that these two monitors are almost identical, and they don't mention the performance to be better on VG279QM in their comparison:



So, perhaps refresh rate compliance is not THAT super important after all, as it would seem that extremely high refresh rates already alter perceived motion blur much enough to make movement look clear even if refresh rate compliance is not perfect, and from what I've seen, even most popular/the best TN panels don't achieve 100% refresh rate compliance. I don't think any LCD monitor does, actually, not without the added +1 ms leeway.

Sources:
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/discussi ... w-at-280hz
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... ng-vg259qm
https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/as ... d_response
https://youtu.be/YPk0REW6qBc?t=312

So even if the compliance at 280hz does that only happen when I get to 280 fps? If my game is around 220-240 fps, would it still be better to set the monitor to 280hz instead of 240hz?

RLCScontender wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2020, 20:28

Best Motion clarity Part 3 Backlight Strobing, MBR, AMB, etc. Unlike the other 2 tests, i'm basing this strictly on UFO/in practice as a 50/50 split.

Crosstalk aggression results+motion artifacts that come with it GRAPH



PUREXP has slightly less strobe crosstalk at 240hz than the MSI MAg251RX, VG279QM. but is similar in crosstalk to the VG259QM and Nitro xv273x. But at 120hz, it has very little crosstalk(it had the least amount of crosstalk that i've ever experienced) and is among the best motion clarity i've ever experienced. THE XG270 viewsonic was my first 240hz IPS monitor and i wished they made a 24.5" version since 27" 1080p is not my cup of tea.

The Acer Nitro XV273X backlight strobing(VRB) is Very underrated. The crosstalk is decent(slightly less than the msi mag251rx)

The worst is the viewsonic elite xg270qg ULMB. The red phosphur was the major deal breaker. It's very dangerous to play on (at least from my perspective) especially to people who are susceptible to certain colors such as red.





2nd WORST is The samsung odyssey G7 MBR is essentially USELESS and should be turned off at all times. The crosstalk is unacceptable and the but the amount of black level smearing, overshoot, & MICROSTUTTERS make it unplayable. The Microstutter was so bad, everything was BLURRY on the screen. I have one image going 1 way, the other image going the other. As a matter of fact, when i turned on MBR, the microstuterring became 100x more obvious. lastly, at 240hz 1440p resolution, unless you can keep the Framerate at exactly 240hz at ALL TIMES, the microstutter will be EXTREMELY obvious to the point where it's basically unplayable(at least to me).

Quadtruple crosstalk(this was when my FPS was under 200hz). The only other monitor that is capable of quadtruple crosstalk is the Asus VG279QM

Odyssey G7 quad crosstalk(Under 200hz framerate)




Asus VG279QM quadtruple crosstalk(under 200hz framerate)


it's impossible to keep 240hz FPS at all times on the odyssey g7 because there is no GPU+CPU technology that can have 240hz FPS at 1440p resolution on AAA titles. i also 100% doubt the RTX 3090 will be powerful enough to have 240hz at 1440p resolution on AAA games. on low graphical demanding games, you can but i seriously doubt anyone would buy a $800 monitor to play "low graphical demanding games". essentially 1440p 240hz is probably another 6-7 yrs away(RTX 5080 ti) and by then, there will be NEWER monitors better than the oddysey g7 with HDMI 2.1. Thus the "future proof" argument is absolutely BS. The only thing that matter is NOW.

The best is the PUREXP from the viewsonic elite xg270, ELMB-SYNC from the VG259QM, and ULMB from the Acer Predator XB273x

Asus TUF VG259QM (280hz elmb-sync)


free image hosting

Viewsonic ELITE XG270 (PUREXP 120hz)




upload images (wow, the crosstalk is extremely tiny)

Acer Predator XB273 X ULMB

(credits to chief since he cropped this himself, was too lazy to pull up my photo archives LOL)

image hosting

And lastly, the pathetic Asus TUF VG279QM in practice(along with its pixel inversion artifacts). that's a VERY very strong dbl image(crosstalk), surprised it didn't reach a triple image.


upload image

image uploader


tldr;lrl

Fun fact! the viewsonic elite monitors ranked #1(ELITE XG270) and ranked dead last(ELITE XG270QG) when it comes to motion blur reduction technology based off my criteria and results.

viewsonic xg270 the crosstalk is near impossible to see in practice. it took me nearly an HOUR to finally find that tiny crosstalk) photo of it. Whereas Viewsonic xg270qg nano ips has the worst motion clarity w/ anti motion blur technology thanks to its red phosphor.

Coming up next. the Asus TUF VG259QM vs Asus TUF VG279QM vs MSI MAG251RX reviews The ultimate showdown

the real Samsung Odyssey G7 review Part 3 review. I'm going to bring out EXTREME evidence and VALID points to prove why the odyssey g7 deserves a 1/10 rating REGARDLESS of what those "positive reviews" those review websites gave it. One thing you can't BS is the blurbuster UFO ghosting tests. I'm going to bust the blur once and for all,

-RLCSContender

Hey RLCS been reading your posts as I am overdue an upgrade currently I am on a old hitachi tv since breaking my 144hz aoc (was about to order the g7 before I saw the flickering issue and one of your reddit posts calling it sh*t. After your more recent update the two options I would pick would be either the XG270 $540 or the AW2521HFL $460. I am from the UK so monitors like the MSI are not an option sadly and these two are still overpriced haha.

I am very much stuck on what to grab and need your thoughts as the AW has better 240hz (Unless you think the XG270 240hz BLI is better?)and is 24.5inchs with VRR.

However the XG270 has better colors, Adjustable BFI (I saw one of your comments saying you liked being able to use it on a losing streak to mix it up and refresh yourself with the cleaner black lines) and in theory couldn't i run it at any FPS and be fine since I would have BFI i wouldnt run into any stuttering or issues that not running at native refresh rate would happen? i haven't heard anyone mention this so this may just be flat out wrong.

game wise I play a lot of esports OW and Valorant are my main two and spend 70 percent of my time there but the idea of having BLS for single player games/RTS and maxing out the graphics does sound really fun.

Stevie66 wrote: ↑

02 Sep 2020, 17:03

So even if the compliance at 280hz does that only happen when I get to 280 fps? If my game is around 220-240 fps, would it still be better to set the monitor to 280hz instead of 240hz?

I'm not an expert, but I'd say yes, it would, if you play competitively and use fixed refresh rate. I don't think frame rate has anything to do with refresh rate compliance. Note that 60 fps on a 240 Hz or 280 Hz monitor have EXTREMELY less lag than 60 fps on 60 Hz monitor, thanks to huge image refresh time difference: 16.66 ms for 60 Hz vs 4.17 ms for 240 Hz vs 3.57 ms for 280 Hz. Higher Hz is always better in terms of responsiveness, the higher refresh rate, the lower input lag you get. This means even if you have 60 frames on 280 Hz monitor, these frames are being displayed each 3.57 ms (instead of each 16.66 ms on 60 Hz). So, all of that doesn't have anything to do with refresh rate compliance, as pixel transition times remain the same at all frame rates, as far as I know. Overdrive is what directly impacts refresh rate compliance, as it directly influences pixel transition times, and on many monitors you need to adjust overdrive setting accordingly to frame rate, but only if you enable Adaptive-Sync. If you use Adaptive-Sync, then I'd also still leave the refresh rate at 280 Hz and OD80 (there's no reason to lower the refresh rate in VRR). According to Hardware Unboxed ASUS VG279QM review, your frame rate is high enough for that and you should not experience any noticeable overshoot. Note that it might be a little different for VG259QM, so you can just test what works best by changing overdrive setting.

speancer wrote: ↑

04 Sep 2020, 14:12

Stevie66 wrote: ↑

02 Sep 2020, 17:03

So even if the compliance at 280hz does that only happen when I get to 280 fps? If my game is around 220-240 fps, would it still be better to set the monitor to 280hz instead of 240hz?

I'm not an expert, but I'd say yes, it would, if you play competitively and use fixed refresh rate. I don't think frame rate has anything to do with refresh rate compliance. Note that 60 fps on a 240 Hz or 280 Hz monitor have EXTREMELY less lag than 60 fps on 60 Hz monitor, thanks to huge image refresh time difference: 16.66 ms for 60 Hz vs 4.17 ms for 240 Hz vs 3.57 ms for 280 Hz. Higher Hz is always better in terms of responsiveness, the higher refresh rate, the lower input lag you get. This means even if you have 60 frames on 280 Hz monitor, these frames are being displayed each 3.57 ms (instead of each 16.66 ms on 60 Hz). So, all of that doesn't have anything to do with refresh rate compliance, as pixel transition times remain the same at all frame rates, as far as I know. Overdrive is what directly impacts refresh rate compliance, as it directly influences pixel transition times, and on many monitors you need to adjust overdrive setting accordingly to frame rate, but only if you enable Adaptive-Sync. If you use Adaptive-Sync, then I'd also still leave the refresh rate at 280 Hz and OD80 (there's no reason to lower the refresh rate in VRR). According to Hardware Unboxed ASUS VG279QM review, your frame rate is high enough for that and you should not experience any noticeable overshoot. Note that it might be a little different for VG259QM, so you can just test what works best by changing overdrive setting.

Thanks for the info, I guess old PC games that are locked in 60 fps and editing the config/ini file doesn't work will force your monitor to 60hz and there's nothing you can do about it?
Also how do you like your XB273? Is the monitor blur as good as the rest of the IPS monitors you have at 240 and 144hz? Thinking of getting one but the only place here that has it has a poor return policy, but native gsync module for the VRR is very tempting. I had the MAG and now the LG750 and Alienware

Stevie66 wrote: ↑

04 Sep 2020, 14:46

Thanks for the info, I guess old PC games that are locked in 60 fps and editing the config/ini file doesn't work will force your monitor to 60hz and there's nothing you can do about it?
Also how do you like your XB273? Is the monitor blur as good as the rest of the IPS monitors you have at 240 and 144hz? Thinking of getting one but the only place here that has it has a poor return policy, but native gsync module for the VRR is very tempting. I had the MAG and now the LG750 and Alienware

Yes, nothing you can do about it. Remember you should lower overdrive setting if you use Adaptive-Sync in games that have forced 60 Hz refresh rate, otherwise you'd experience significant overshoot.

As for Predator XB273 X, it's been a longer while since I had it and I wasn't really that much into motion handling performance testing back then, so I can't really tell, but I remember it had some pretty distracting pale trails behind moving objects even on optimal overdrive setting (there are only 3 settings: off, normal, extreme, the last one is unusable due to severe overshoot). I'd personally say it's not really worth the price, however, take what I say now with a grain of salt, as I did not properly test it in terms of motion handling and my memory is cloudy sometimes. I'm considering purchasing it again to fix this. I mainly returned it because of poor backlight uniformity, which at that price point is unacceptable to me.

I'm actually getting VG259QM for testing on Monday, so I might just buy XB273 X again, and I'd compare them against my XL2546, which, as for now, I found superior in terms of motion handling in competitive FPS.

All the AU Optronics fast IPS monitors that i've owned have intermittent pixel inversion. A vast majority of them however , I cannot see with my naked eye(i have 20/20 vision).

There are pixel inversion artifacts because the company that made these panels know that there's image retention issues. Pixel inversion is a way to mitigate image retention; however, the side effects are intermittent bars(artifacts) that occur depending on the severity of it.


**disclaimer, one specific monitor may be different from another, i only speak for the monitors i've personally owned. I don't have enough data or sample size to for sure conclude that these 100% work on ALL monitors**

There are workarounds to this i can confirm ONE or some of these will work since i speak from experience(although i only speak for the monitors i've personally owned, some panels are slightly different than other. ) . . (i've eradicated Almost every pixel inversion using one or few of these methods

1. CRU method , i put it on 240.000 or 239.778 refresh rate. One of them will trigger pixel inversion more than the other. (i've essentially eradicated pixel inversion on my monitor using this method)



2. Aspect ratio method. Make sure the aspect ratio isn't on 1:1. Wide 16:9 is what i recommend. On nvidia put it on "no display scaling" (this will reduce input lag as well).

3. Sit further away method. Really, even at 1080p, 24.5 inches is still slightly too big. Visual acuity distance is around 34-38 inches away; however, i find that the pixel inversion artifacts become invisible at around 24-26 inches. I sit 28-34 inches away from my 24.5" monitor and i see ZERO pixel inversion artifacts.

4. Change cables method-->majority of the default DP cables that comes with the monitors i've purchased are pretty bad or its missing some pins or they used low quality components. If you have a DP cable from an older monitor, try to use that one for testing, otherwise DP cables run cheap on most retailers. I prefer you use Dp 1.4 cable

5. Lower the refresh rate then put it back to the max refresh rate method-->A bad stutter will also cause pixel walk to be noticeable. What i do is lower the refresh rate to 60hz, then change it back to 240hz. The scan rate of the scaler if you change the refresh rate will align the pixel walk to make it less noticeable

6. Make sure there aren't any hardware that you own within proximity of your monitor that may cause any form of electrical interference.(especially near your DP cable). A room with bad electronic management will have unnecessary currents running amok.

7. The pixel massage method. Grab a microfiber cloth, use water or any monitor cleaning solution and wipe your monitor in a circular motion. Also, if you see any backlight bleed, wipe them towards the corner to remove the liquid solution inside the monitor. LCD uses liquid crystals

8. Burn method. Grab your monitor and put it outside on the scorching 100 degree heat for 5-10 mins. This will warm up the monitor so when you start it, the pixels of the monitor are ALREADY pre warmed up and NOT relying on the heat when its plugged in. I use this method quite often because the 24.5" au optronics monitors are notorious for having very slow response times the first 30 mins. The pixels when turning my monitor after not using it for a long time, accumulate heat; however, the side effects of this is pixel dance(pixel walk). By burning the monitor outside will ALREADY warm up the pixels without the pixels relying on the energy from the monitor when its plugged in.

9. THE BEST METHOD that i found was using the blurbuster UFO ghosting test. Basically put the UFO test full screen for 10 mins so. Once you exit the screen, the image retention of those WHITE LINES should be visible(especially on a dark background). Once you see that,

Then go on youtube and use this video



this should either eradicate or mitigate the pixel walk(this worked on most of the 25" monitors)

with my alienware, it has the LCD conditioning feature so i dont' need to do this method. But this method by far is the most successful method. Along with #1 and #8

tld;lr

One or some of these SHOULD work. if not, if i would just Return(RMA) or replace if you have a warranty

@likablesloth, I know you have limited choices but hear me out.



This is my #1 overall pick and it really is the ultimate gaming monitor. This monitor should be monitor of the year of 2020. The MSI MAG251RX. the MSI is very difficult to get in europe but in the USA, it's not that hard to get but the sellers are jacking up the prices.





Not only does every thing tick (HDR, 240hz strobing, #2 in motion clarity, #1 in colors(tied with the nano ips, input lag is insanely low, etc) but it's ELITE on every category. It has very few weaknesses. The only weakness the msi mag251rx has is that it doesn't have SRGB mode to clamp the gamut and the ergonomic stand cannot swivel/pivot. The gamut can range from 85% dci-p3 to 98% dci-p3. My specific panel is clearly 98% dci-p3 wide color gamut .

Some guy on reddit offered me $2000 for my MSI MAG251RX and i declined that offer. I wouldn't even sell my MSI MAG251rx if they offered $5000



MSI MAG251RX vs a REAL 98% dci-p3 WCG monitor side by side(i maximized the saturation on both and it's easily 95-98% p3. how do I know this? the red on both my viewsonic elite xg270qg are very similar. my viewsonic nano IPS i measured is well above 100% on the p3 color space.



If that isn't readily available, get the Dell Alienware AW2521HFL. Although the MSI MAG251RX beats it in almost every category, one important category that the alienware beats the MAG251rx is motion clarity. The Alienware aw2521HFL from my tests have the best overall motion clarity out of any monitor that i've ever owned in my entire life.

The amount of B slapping my alienware gave to the 32" oddysey is an understatement.

@RLCScontender


Interesting, I thought you would of thought the VG259QM would of had the best clarity with secret OD 120 shadow boost 1 (10 bit color though cru) oc to 309hz ELMB. I saw the 360hz monitor review by Linus and the colors of the monitor was really really fucking good 0.18 i think

*the thing that hit me over the head about the 360hz is the NATIVE g sync support which i think will make this the best pick overall if it can match the colors of the MSI and have a dumb fast refresh but also low lag at 144/60/240/360. I really think these new 360 bad boys will be the best thing since the TN zowies just off native g sync and the reflex looks useful too.

LikeableSloth wrote: ↑

06 Sep 2020, 07:13

@RLCScontender


Interesting, I thought you would of thought the VG259QM would of had the best clarity with secret OD 120 shadow boost 1 (10 bit color though cru) oc to 309hz ELMB. I saw the 360hz monitor review by Linus and the colors of the monitor was really really fucking good 0.18 i think

*the thing that hit me over the head about the 360hz is the NATIVE g sync support which i think will make this the best pick overall if it can match the colors of the MSI and have a dumb fast refresh but also low lag at 144/60/240/360. I really think these new 360 bad boys will be the best thing since the TN zowies just off native g sync and the reflex looks useful too.

Didn't Linus also say there's a ton of ghosting and/or overshoot at 360hz? sounds like the OD can't keep up at 360 fps, but guess we will see when other reviewers get their hands on it.