Multiple frame-rate limiters

[jorimt]

aside from screen tearing I’ve been noticing micro-stutters and sudden frame rate halvings while camera panning on the three games I’ve tested, which are Apex Legends, Destiny 2, and Fortnite. My fps is stable with no drops whatsoever when it happens.

1) G-SYNC will not address any form of system-side stutter, and 2) system-side performance counters cannot reflect or depict all forms of stutter in all cases.

As for "frame rate halvings," assuming you've already verified G-SYNC is actually engaged during these instances, then standard double buffer V-SYNC half refresh rate lock behavior cannot occur with G-SYNC, with or without the V-SYNC option paired with it, which would lead me to conclude that they are simply frametime spikes causing the framerate to momentarily plummet per instance.

Can you think of anything else that can be causing this? If you have any suggestions it’ll be much appreciated.

Frametime performance issue causes are varied and, ultimately, they aren't 100% fixable.

As per my article:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ettings/2/

What are Frametime Spikes?

Frametime spikes are an abrupt interruption of frames output by the system, and on a capable setup running an efficient game engine, typically occur due to loading screens, shader compilation, background asset streaming, auto saves, network activity, and/or the triggering of a script or physics system, but can also be exacerbated by an incapable setup, inefficient game engine, poor netcode, low RAM/VRAM and page file over usage, misconfigured (or limited game support for) SLI setups, faulty drivers, specific or excess background processes, in-game overlay or input device conflicts, or a combination of them all.

Not to be confused with other performance issues, like framerate slowdown or V-SYNC-induced stutter, frametime spikes manifest as the occasional hitch or pause, and usually last for mere micro to milliseconds at a time (seconds, in the worst of cases), plummeting the framerate to as low as the single digits, and concurrently raising the frametime to upwards of 1000ms before re-normalizing.

G-SYNC eliminates traditional V-SYNC stutter caused below the maximum refresh rate by repeated frames from delayed frame delivery, but frametime spikes still affect G-SYNC, since it can only mirror what the system is outputting. As such, when G-SYNC has nothing new to sync to for a frame or frames at a time, it must repeat the previous frame(s) until the system resumes new frame(s) output, which results in the visible interruption observed as stutter.

The more efficient the game engine, and the more capable the system running it, the less frametime spikes there are (and the shorter they last), but no setup can fully avoid their occurrence.

[binodynamic]

aside from screen tearing I’ve been noticing micro-stutters and sudden frame rate halvings while camera panning on the three games I’ve tested, which are Apex Legends, Destiny 2, and Fortnite. My fps is stable with no drops whatsoever when it happens.

1) G-SYNC will not address any form of system-side stutter, and 2) system-side performance counters cannot reflect or depict all forms of stutter in all cases.

As for "frame rate halvings," assuming you've already verified G-SYNC is actually engaged during these instances, then standard double buffer V-SYNC half refresh rate lock behavior cannot occur with G-SYNC, with or without the V-SYNC option paired with it, which would lead me to conclude that they are simply frametime spikes causing the framerate to momentarily plummet per instance.

Can you think of anything else that can be causing this? If you have any suggestions it’ll be much appreciated.

Frametime performance issue causes are varied and, ultimately, they aren't 100% fixable.

As per my article:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ettings/2/

What are Frametime Spikes?

Frametime spikes are an abrupt interruption of frames output by the system, and on a capable setup running an efficient game engine, typically occur due to loading screens, shader compilation, background asset streaming, auto saves, network activity, and/or the triggering of a script or physics system, but can also be exacerbated by an incapable setup, inefficient game engine, poor netcode, low RAM/VRAM and page file over usage, misconfigured (or limited game support for) SLI setups, faulty drivers, specific or excess background processes, in-game overlay or input device conflicts, or a combination of them all.

Not to be confused with other performance issues, like framerate slowdown or V-SYNC-induced stutter, frametime spikes manifest as the occasional hitch or pause, and usually last for mere micro to milliseconds at a time (seconds, in the worst of cases), plummeting the framerate to as low as the single digits, and concurrently raising the frametime to upwards of 1000ms before re-normalizing.

G-SYNC eliminates traditional V-SYNC stutter caused below the maximum refresh rate by repeated frames from delayed frame delivery, but frametime spikes still affect G-SYNC, since it can only mirror what the system is outputting. As such, when G-SYNC has nothing new to sync to for a frame or frames at a time, it must repeat the previous frame(s) until the system resumes new frame(s) output, which results in the visible interruption observed as stutter.

The more efficient the game engine, and the more capable the system running it, the less frametime spikes there are (and the shorter they last), but no setup can fully avoid their occurrence.

It seems frametime spikes is what I’m experiencing.
I actually spent six weeks troubleshooting not too long ago trying to figure out what was giving me visual and audio stutters. It turned out to be a defective CPU and was able to fix it by replacing it with another 5800x3d. However it seems now I have a different issue that might possibly be hardware related. As I ended up replacing my external SSD, PSU, RAM, GPU, and CPU within the 6 weeks of troubleshooting the visual/audio stutters I highly doubt that it’s hardware related unless it’s caused by a defective motherboard. Which is the one component I haven’t replaced.

The only other things I can think of is a defective nvme ssd where I have windows installed or a defective motherboard.
If windows is installed onto a defective nvme ssd drive can it cause stutters/frametime spikes that occur solely in-game even if the games are installed on a separate external drive?

[jorimt]

If windows is installed onto a defective nvme ssd drive can it cause stutters/frametime spikes that occur solely in-game even if the games are installed on a separate external drive?

Unlikely?

Again, frametime performance issues are typically game-dependent and cannot be entirely avoided; a certain level of them will occur regardless of hardware health and/or capability.

The fact that you've already swapped out multiple components and are still experiencing the "issue" I'd start taking as a sign that it's an expected amount of frametime performance issues on your particular configuration due to the limitations of modern technology, and not faulty hardware.

[binodynamic]

If windows is installed onto a defective nvme ssd drive can it cause stutters/frametime spikes that occur solely in-game even if the games are installed on a separate external drive?

Unlikely?

Again, frametime performance issues are typically game-dependent and cannot be entirely avoided; a certain level of them will occur regardless of hardware health and/or capability.

The fact that you've already swapped out multiple components and are still experiencing the "issue" I'd start taking as a sign that it's an expected amount of frametime performance issues on your particular configuration due to the limitations of modern technology, and not faulty hardware.

I've been experiencing the stutters on Destiny 2, Fortnite, Apex Legends, and Halo Infinite. I just find it strange as the stutters started happening out of nowhere on November, 2022 after using my PC without any issues since 2019. I actually did a test using CapFrameX while playing Halo Infinite and it showed the framerate spikes.
[

Halo Infinite CapFrameX results

Screenshot (8).png (233.8 KiB) Viewed 4098 times

img][/img]

I also tried disabling MPO but the stutters weren't improved at all.
Although, like you said, it's unlikely that it's the nvme ssd I will try installing windows on the Sata SSD to see if that helps. If not the only thing I can think of is a failing motherboard as I tried everything software related.
If you have any suggestions I'd appreciate it. I am at my wits' end.

Thank you for your time!

[jorimt]

I actually did a test using CapFrameX while playing Halo Infinite and it showed the framerate spikes.

You're worried about a couple of, at worst, sub 20ms frametime spikes over a 1 minute period that comprise merely 0.2% (0.12s) of the experience with 99.8% of it being smooth?

Such variances are within normal expectations and will vary from game-to-game, and even run-to-run in the same game. Just look at any frametime graph on any mainstream benchmarking site (such as in GPU reviews), and you'll see the same or worse across multiple test games.

If you have indeed recently experienced any such increases of frametime "spikes" of that level recently across those games, things such as Windows Updates, driver updates, and game updates could explain such a small increase/decrease in frametime performance here and there.

For a slightly more consistent experience, if you aren't doing so already, you can determine your 99% achievable average framerate with the same tool, and then use Nvidia Max Frame Rate or RTSS to limit the framerate slightly below that for a steadier frametime experience between any spikes.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary there.

I just find it strange as the stutters started happening out of nowhere on November, 2022 after using my PC without any issues since 2019.

Trace back what changed, if anything.

You didn't say what OS version you're running, but Windows 11 did recently introduce frametime issues by accidentally allowing monitoring tools to run in the background at default. This was addressed in one of the latest updates though, so if you have Windows 11 and are on the latest public update, this issue would no longer apply.

I am at my wits' end.

You're at your wits end because your expectations may be unrealistic. If you were getting less stutter than what was depicted in your Halo graph before November 2022, you had it pretty darn good (better than most).

Regardless, our recent convo here has deviated too much from the OP. Make a new topic if you want to discuss it with anyone further.

Devoid you adding way more specific information about possible changes you made around November 2022 in a new topic, I have nothing else to add. Without it, this is just another wild-goose chase based on subjective observations.

[binodynamic]

I actually did a test using CapFrameX while playing Halo Infinite and it showed the framerate spikes.

You're worried about a couple of, at worst, sub 20ms frametime spikes over a 1 minute period that comprise merely 0.2% (0.12s) of the experience with 99.8% of it being smooth?

Such variances are within normal expectations and will vary from game-to-game, and even run-to-run in the same game. Just look at any frametime graph on any mainstream benchmarking site (such as in GPU reviews), and you'll see the same or worse across multiple test games.

If you have indeed recently experienced any such increases of frametime "spikes" of that level recently across those games, things such as Windows Updates, driver updates, and game updates could explain such a small increase/decrease in frametime performance here and there.

For a slightly more consistent experience, if you aren't doing so already, you can determine your 99% achievable average framerate with the same tool, and then use Nvidia Max Frame Rate or RTSS to limit the framerate slightly below that for a steadier frametime experience between any spikes.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary there.

I just find it strange as the stutters started happening out of nowhere on November, 2022 after using my PC without any issues since 2019.

Trace back what changed, if anything.

You didn't say what OS version you're running, but Windows 11 did recently introduce frametime issues by accidentally allowing monitoring tools to run in the background at default. This was addressed in one of the latest updates though, so if you have Windows 11 and are on the latest public update, this issue would no longer apply.

I am at my wits' end.

You're at your wits end because your expectations may be unrealistic. If you were getting less stutter than what was depicted in your Halo graph before November 2022, you had it pretty darn good (better than most).

Regardless, our recent convo here has deviated too much from the OP. Make a new topic if you want to discuss it with anyone further.

Devoid you adding way more specific information about possible changes you made around November 2022 in a new topic, I have nothing else to add. Without it, this is just another wild-goose chase based on subjective observations.

I’ve been on windows 10 the whole time.

I appreciate you going out of your way to answer my questions.
Thank you

[jorimt]

I’ve been on windows 10 the whole time.

Noted.

I appreciate you going out of your way to answer my questions.
Thank you

You're welcome.

[binodynamic]

I’ve been on windows 10 the whole time.

Noted.

I appreciate you going out of your way to answer my questions.
Thank you

You're welcome.

I apologize for lengthening this thread. There’s one last thing I wanted to add.

First of all I did testing on the LG 27gr95qe while the second monitor was unplugged. I disabled gsync, set NVCP vsync to “use the 3d application setting”, disabled v-sync in-game, removed all fps limiters (in NVCP and in-game). After doing so every game I tested, Apex Legends, Halo Infinite, Fortnite, Warzone 2, and Destiny 2, ran smooth without any stutters and hardly noticeable tearing. I re-enabled g-sync and turned on v-sync in NVCP and the stutters were back. Is it possible that either gsync or vsync (or both combined) caused the framerate spikes? Also I don’t know if this had anything to do with improving the stutters but I updated my bios from f37d to f37 prior to removing gsync, vsync, fps limiters.

If I have any more questions or findings related to the framerate spikes what will be the best way to reach you?

[jorimt]

I apologize for lengthening this thread. There’s one last thing I wanted to add.

First of all I did testing on the LG 27gr95qe while the second monitor was unplugged. I disabled gsync, set NVCP vsync to “use the 3d application setting”, disabled v-sync in-game, removed all fps limiters (in NVCP and in-game). After doing so every game I tested, Apex Legends, Halo Infinite, Fortnite, Warzone 2, and Destiny 2, ran smooth without any stutters and hardly noticeable tearing. I re-enabled g-sync and turned on v-sync in NVCP and the stutters were back. Is it possible that either gsync or vsync (or both combined) caused the framerate spikes? Also I don’t know if this had anything to do with improving the stutters but I updated my bios from f37d to f37 prior to removing gsync, vsync, fps limiters.

If I have any more questions or findings related to the framerate spikes what will be the best way to reach you?

Again, create a new topic and include your pre/post-issue specs (including displays) and a complete and detailed linear chronological account of your issue if you want to continue troubleshooting with others here. I monitor new and active topics, so if I have anything further to say on it, I will (which will, again, hinge on whether I see anything that can be deduced from your OP).

As for whether tear-free G-SYNC can cause frametime spikes, no, but it can slightly lengthen each instance over no-sync, which there is no way of avoiding, since it's simply the way delivery of tear-free frames to a fixed scanout speed ultimately works. I.E. a fundamental limitation of display technology, not G-SYNC.

That said, if you claim G-SYNC implementation is causing you such stress on that monitor, and using no-sync resolves all your issues, use no-sync.

G-SYNC is an option, and honestly it's much less useful at 240Hz than it is at lower physical refresh rates, and the higher refresh rate monitors we get, the less useful G-SYNC will become anyway. At 1000Hz, for instance, any syncing method will be virtually unnecessary.