Blur Busters Forums

Hello everyone,
I didn't want to use the word 'upgrade' in the title as I'm not entirely sure it would be, which is why I'm here . I am currently using a Iiyama VM Pro 454 which has served me well for the last 10 years, gaming at 1600x1200@100hz the diamondtron tube is simply fantastic image quality.

Within the last 4 weeks though, a problem has developed with the horizontal linearity causing the picture to appear stretched in the middle and squeezed up at the edges, the image is still perfectly square and I currently still using it for gaming at 1280x1024 as switching to 16x12 causes it to really squeeze up in the center leaving huge black bars on the left and right sides, which is obviously unplayable.

So I started looking for and researching into getting a new monitor and after many hours of reading and researching I have my choice narrowed down to just 1, the Eizo FG2421. Two concerns which are stopping me from purchasing it are mainly input-lag and blurring/ghosting. I have tried several flat-panels in the past but have always sent them back and returned to my trusty CRT for those 2 reasons. Now that this Eizo has dropped using a VA panel and much better contrast-ratio, deeper blacks etc it caught my eye as a potential replacement for my CRT.

So, in essence all I am really after is someone to convince me, or not, that it will be a worthy replacement and some peoples thoughts, if any, that have come from a CRT to this Eizo and impressions, positives negatives that kind of thing.

The only other option I have is to see if I can get my Iiyama repaired and/or wait for OLED which from what I've read will be several more years before it hits mainstream.

Thanks for your thoughts and advice

rapt0r wrote:Hello everyone,
I didn't want to use the word 'upgrade' in the title as I'm not entirely sure it would be, which is why I'm here .

To get you quickly to a decision point, here's some redeeming attributes:

Upgrade relative to CRT:
+ brightness (probably, relative to most CRTs)
+ text crispness, sharpness
+ geometry, linearity

Nearly equal to CRT:
+ motion clarity, when warmed up

Downgrades relative to CRT:
- black level (unless your CRT is old)
- ghosting, when cold
- gamma uniformity, especially in dark grey shades on the right edge of the monitor.

rapt0r wrote:So I started looking for and researching into getting a new monitor and after many hours of reading and researching I have my choice narrowed down to just 1, the Eizo FG2421. Two concerns which are stopping me from purchasing it are mainly input-lag and blurring/ghosting.

Are you talking about ghosting or motion blurring? See LCD Motion Artifats 101 and 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost for comparision photos.

The VA panel in the FG2421 is very temperature sensitive. (Ever left a cellphone in a cold car, and noticed the LCD respond slowly -- very similar issue, except a little more temperature sensitive). The ghosting goes down dramatically as the FG2421 is warmed up. Warming up the EIZO FG2421 (30-45 minute warmup recommended) actually reduces most of the ghosting issues of the FG2421. There is still residual ghosting, but it will have a lot less ghosting than the average VA/IPS LCD, in a warmed-up Turbo240.

Turbo240, a strobe-backlight mode, solves the vast majority of the blurring and ghosting issues of the Eizo FG2421. It won't have as low blur/ghosting as a LightBoost monitor or the ULMB mode (in GSYNC monitors), but it does have a brighter strobe mode

The input lag, about 19ms in strobed mode (Photodiode measurement method: from frame buffer presentation to 50% completion of pixel transition), is something you will have to decide is good enough or not. Buy from a place like Amazon that gives refunds or exchanges (this link actually supports Blur Busters: Eizo FG2421)

rapt0r wrote:So, in essence all I am really after is someone to convince me, or not, that it will be a worthy replacement and some peoples thoughts, if any, that have come from a CRT to this Eizo and impressions, positives negatives that kind of thing.

I've asked Morkai and Vega to come over and post their impressions, being happy former CRT users who love their EIZO FG2421's.

rapt0r wrote:The only other option I have is to see if I can get my Iiyama repaired and/or wait for OLED which from what I've read will be several more years before it hits mainstream.

This is also an option...
But you'll probably need to wait until well after the first OLED display since many OLEDs can still have a motion blur issue (see Why Do Some OLEDs Have Motion Blur), and they also require strobing too for motion blur reduction. Pixel transition speed (pixel movement) does not solve motion blur alone -- pixel persistence does (pixel static state). Persistence is the chief cause of motion blur on today's monitors.

If you want minimum possible ghosting and motion blur, consider one of the TN-based 120Hz or 144Hz monitors with a strobe backlight, such as LightBoost or ULMB (GSYNC). However, the FG2421 motion clarity is actually far closer to a CRT than to an LCD, even if not quite as clear as a TN panel. You do get 5000:1 contrast ratio on the FG2421, which is superior.

NOTE: Blur Busters is going to be posting the much-delayed Eizo FG2421 review, sometime after GSYNC Part #2 is posted

Cold and warm pursuit camera images of the Eizo FG2421.
Photos are of 960 pixels/second object at http://www.testufo.com/ghosting using a sideways-moving camera following motion, 1/30second exposure capturing 4 refresh cycles.

EIZO FG2421 ghosting, when cold:



EIZO FG2421 ghosting, after warming up for 30 minutes:



As you can see, there is still some ghosting (mostly due to the faint double-strobe), but much less than when cold.

I've verified Mark's results on the temperature sensitivity of the screen. Once warmed up though, its quite an amazing display. My mini-rundown (as someone who has owned 4x FW900 CRT's, and about 30 other displays):

Pros:
1. Amazing brightness adjustability.
2. Overall motion clarity is great.
3. Semi-gloss AR film.
4. Strobing backlight built it, no messing with certain GPU brands, drivers, fixes/work-around’s. It just works!
5. Great bonus features you only find on high end monitors.
6. Blacks and contrast ratios off the chart.
7. Great quality control seen in my three examples. All three have virtually zero back light bleed, haloing, and glow. All three monitors are pixel perfect and are very hard to distinguish between them in image quality.
8. 5-Year warranty.
9. Colors and overall image quality are good and remain good in 240Turbo backlight strobe mode.
10. Simple, attractive housing.

Cons:
1. Pay to play. This is not a budget monitor, and was not designed to be.
2. Just a small hint of input lag. All strobing backlight monitors will have some input lag.
3. On some backgrounds, there is some smearing/ghosting.
4. No VESA mount. (although two screw holes line up and you can get it to work).
5. Some very faint cross-hatching on light images.

I've been so close to buying this monitor for a whole month now, but still haven't. I'm on a crappy 23" TN panel (Acer x233h) and this thing is really getting on my nerves (and eyes, guess I'm a bit sensitive to flicker). I tried the Benq XL2420TE a month back, but my unit produced such horrendous colors (even when comparing to this Acer..) I returned it after a 4 days use.

After that incident with the Benq I started wondering if the smoothness was more important than image quality, and have been pondering some 1440p monitors (like Dell U2713HM), but then there's the possibility of this Eizo FG2421, a VA panel and still rocks 120hz with inbuilt strobing to boot. My question is, how are the colors comparing to a TN? It probably won't match a high class IPS like the Dell Ultrasharp, but is it still noticeably better than the TN monitors? I've seen a lot of praise for the contrast and blacks - but the colors? I'm not looking for any 100% sRGB colors, just colors that stand out well and look nice to the eye --- the Benq had such washed out colors it was almost funny.

Sorry for intruding on the OP's topic, but hey, this might prove some useful information. 10 years on that CRT huh, that's been a long relationship.

apparently, the Iiyama's have a service mode, where you might be able to adjust horizontal linearity. I know on my trinitrons I can adjust linearity.

See http://axofiber.no-ip.org/inside/monito ... 410,454Pro

and http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/759/t9548-service-menu/

Vega: those '2 screw holes'...is that how you set yours up? I.e., used a VESA compliant setup but only screwed in the screws that aligned?

Sent from dumbphone (pls excuse typos and dumbness)

Thanks Mark for activating my account.

I can confirm most everyone's comments about the Eizo. Especially, the right side lighting issues and the slight cross-hatching. I just returned my first monitor for a second one. Exact same issues, but the cross hatching was much more apparent on the first one. You really have to be looking for it to notice it on the second one. My wife couldn't make it out until I pointed out, then she said, geeze your being picky. I said for $650.00 damn right I'm being picky.

At any rate, my question is did I make the right choice. While colors and VA technology are important, if I was to rank it would be gaming first, then colors.

I noticed with the new ULMB technology and G-Sync, the odds of them coming out with a firmware seem to be good. However, the odds of Eizo allowing G-Sync technology is probably slim. So my question is would the ULMB and G-Sync combo be better than the Eizo in the end?

I also have to wonder whether the input lag is going to be a bit better than than the Eizo. The regular 120hz vs. 240 is night and day, but when you have the 240, you get a slight input lag. I'm wondering if the ULMB and G-Sync would be better in this area.

Black Octagon wrote:Vega: those '2 screw holes'...is that how you set yours up? I.e., used a VESA compliant setup but only screwed in the screws that aligned?

Sent from dumbphone (pls excuse typos and dumbness)

Yes. My monitors are set in a permanent position, so there are no adverse force applications being applied to those two mounting holes. The two mounting holes would probably need reinforcement if one were to use the full monitor and be able to move it while on a VESA arm.

Thank you to all that replied,

I know the number 2 things that I am most sensitive to is input lag and motion clarity. Gamma/colour uniformity bothers me to some extent also so it will be extremely difficult to accept anything less than perfect. I think at some point I'm going to have to change my expectations and compromise with certain aspects of current panels. I have read about the warm-up time for this Eizo and that really isn't a negative for me being on a CRT, it's the ghosting and input-lag that bothers me the most, but as said there is going to have to be some compromises made.

Spacediver, I did download the service manual a while back from http://elektrotanya.com/ and have successfully got into the service OSD. Unfortunately though, I am certain something has blown like a bad cap or diode as I have had the problem intermittently for about 3 years now (gets worse during cold winter months) where alt-tabbing in-and-out of a game several times would fix the linearity problem until now where it doesn't help at all.

PickLes, I have to read about the right-side light issues and x-hatching, I thought perhaps it was just down to initial batches of the panels and hoped it would be fixed by now in new revisions? You are right, it is alot of money and it should be as close to perfect as possible, if it lasts up to 10 years though it doesn't seem an aweful lot tbh and I do believe it's the 1 part that you should spend the most on. I also find the 5 year warranty Eizo gives reassuring as most other mfrs you are lucky to get 3 these days.

The only way I'm going to really see for myself is obviously by ordering one. I live in the UK so I would be getting it from Amazon due to their no-hassle returns policy. Thanks to Vega, I have seen your reviews on Amazon.com and HardOCP website a whiles ago and find myself checking on a daily basis for more info and input from users. There has been no part of any of my many PC's over the last 10 years that has been this difficult in coming to a decision with, it drives me nuts! 10 years, as you say mmmu, has been a long and faithful relationship!

Oh yes and thanks to Mark for the images + vasts amount of info throughout your site and I eagerly await your review. I think I will put a hold on ordering now until you publish it