Blur Busters Forums

Posted: **26 Jun 2024, 22:49**

Translated via Google translator. Hello, I'll be very brief. For 3 years I have used MSI motherboards: msi pro z790p wifi, x670e, z690 torpedo ek x (I have it now), 12700kf processors, ryzen 9 7950x3d, 14900kf (now), msi suprim x 3080ti, msi suprim liquid x 4090( Now). Electrical input lag, I thought. All the symptoms are standard, the whole set, there is no point in listing them here. Mouse supetlight 2, razer deathadder v3 pro 8000hz. What I did? Galvanic isolation, new clamping, muffler for low-frequency and high-frequency interference, EMI, ferrite filters, online UPS about 5 of the most expensive ones, complete replacement of wiring in the house and so on. More than $30,000 was spent, the cost of the PC was about $8,000. I need your help, I brought a friend’s PC with such components from other manufacturers to my home - it works perfectly, my PC at his home works poorly. We tried everything we could for a week. The problem turned out to be that he has several settings to disable the spread spectrum, but for me they are hidden. My bclk is 98hz, I saw a person here on the forum with a similar problem. Help me modify the latest bios version from the official msi website to open or disable the functions. There is no limit to the amount of negativity that I feel towards MSI, I simply hate it, I spent a lot of nerves, money and 3 years of my life to identify this terrible error. Please save me.

Posted: **28 Jun 2024, 12:01**

Posted: **28 Jun 2024, 12:30**

Translated: I am very grateful to you for such a detailed answer, I would like most people to see this post, it may be useful for someone.

I SOLVED MY PROBLEM THE SAME DAY:
How did this happen? At night I find a topic and information about spectrum expansion, try to download the oldest BIOS for my z690, at the very moment of installation I read from the phone that my processor was not supported at that time. The PC does not turn on. In agony, I begin to write here, creating this topic, after which I write about 10 messages to MSI demanding that they send me a BIOS, to which, after standard answers, they simply begin to ignore me. Support said that my processor is available from version AE. After successfully resetting the BIOS, I download this firmware. When I go into the BIOS I don’t change absolutely anything, I just disable hyper trading and C state, no XMP profiles, no overclocking, everything is at full standard. I turn on the system - and that’s it! That's it gentlemen! No input lag, a perfectly smooth picture, the mouse moves so fast that for the first 10 hours I couldn’t get used to the fact that my hand was turning faster than my eyes and couldn’t get rid of old behavior patterns. I played all possible games, the PC did not make a single freeze, ABSOLUTELY EVERY cartridge I had in absolutely all games hit the target both from me and towards me. No complaints, no abnormal peaks from behind the wall. At some point I even forgot that ping existed, it seemed that I was playing on LAN. This morning I spent another day on my PC, deliberately and intently trying to find at least some bug, at least one non-registration of damage, freezing or shaking of the image - nothing. The system works perfectly even directly from the outlet, no bufferbloat, MSI fashion or changing timers, absolutely nothing affects the input lag and the system. A slightly strange effect occurred with the FPS in KS 2, it became less, before I had about 900 and the frame time was anomalous 2 milliseconds, although I have never seen this in any tests, now the FPS has dropped by about 30%, I I think due to desynchronization of the entire system, these numbers were shown incorrectly. Now I see every hit, every shot, in CS 2 I even manage to shoot half a second before death and the damage is registered, I see when I hit and when I didn’t. The effect with mouse DPI and sliding disappeared, but I had to completely select all the parameters again because... My once 3.1 at 400 dpi turned out to be similar to 1.6 at 400 dpi on a working system. Maybe this will be useful to someone. There is no problem with electricity, it may have an effect but not so abnormal.

The worst thing is for people who are looking for a problem in electricity and interference. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY:

I also got improvements in the feel of the mouse when I did a ton of manipulation with electricity, it became faster, the PC became faster and the monitor and colors became more saturated, but this did not SOLVE THE GLOBAL DESYNCHRONIZATION of your system and your presence on the server. You will think that everything is fine, but the physics of all your games will still be broken. Plasticine shooters in which my character is heavy and the others too, will remain so. In reality, CS 2 is a rather complex and fast game, as soon as you fix your input lag and desynchronization goes away, you will see your opponents earlier, BUT NOW THEY SEE YOU TOO, the game has become dynamic, complex, as if at a LAN tournament. In the evening, I visited my friends on discord about the topic of electrical input lag and when I opened the screen share, I was shocked, it was the same game that I played 2 days ago, disgusting, slow, sticky with a steering wheel instead of a mouse. I cannot say that the problem for some users may be related to electricity, but otherwise, I will agree with the post above - this is solely your PC, its technical and software components. ^_^

Posted: **28 Jun 2024, 21:07**

@Z3crosS

Your message is extremely interesting, particularly on the complexity and sensitivity of the processor and especially the aspect of the OS aka Windows, you put your finger on possibly the reason which explains that there are licenses at 5€ then the "official" licenses from Windows cost on average €180, what could justify such significant price differences because basically it's just a license...
This undeniably reminds me of clothing from a brand that costs more but which qualitatively is much better than a counterfeit which will be of poor quality and much less expensive.

Even if your theory is very possible you cannot exclude electricity in such a formal way.

An example: how do you want your PC to be perfectly "synchronized" (to repeat your point) if the electricity in your home has faulty wiring or whatever.

For everything to be perfect, there must be harmony between a good computer (no defective parts, everything must work like a clock, components, cables and peripherals) + good electricity (wiring to standards, perfect sine wave, no interference, etc..) + a good internet connection (ideally with a router worthy of the name) + an official license purchased on Windows (I am adding this fact today because your feedback makes sense and cannot be neglected)

That's a lot to coordinate at a time when a lot of people either have a problem with one or the other.

Posted: **29 Jun 2024, 07:59**

It's simple, if you have varying strength of symptoms it will be electric grid related. Just don't tell me now that this supposed PCH issue sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

Posted: **29 Jun 2024, 08:20**

Z3CrosS wrote: ↑
28 Jun 2024, 12:01
I've decided to answer you because i see you desperately search for help. Your problem is not with EMI or any other bullshit themes with "electricity input lag" which not exist, which flooded whole blurbusters. Actually you answered on your question with your own post, because you saw with your own eyes that friend's PC work in your house flawlessly, but your PCs work same bad despite any locations.

Problem is within your hardware located between CPU & PCH (65%/35%) + how and which Windows you install and from where you took it, because Windows configuers whole PC (i mean Whole PC, CPU & PCH & Subsystem). Every man who speak about thier setups never speak about Windows, like they are sitting on bios or linux from very first PC boot.

This problem will be never lighting up from top bloggers, because no one want to take a responsability for advises + they dont want to be banned(lost money) from companies which gives em money for reviews. For example, i uploaded few months ago 4 videos about this issue on my YT channel (whats causing it, how to diagnose and etc),this issue and my videos called Bad LOD | i/o issues | judders, but now these videos i decided to hide in private because i'm risking in vain, taking alot of time to answering people in comments with taking full responsabilities for advices with zero profit from that, so that's why there is no information about it, as i said It's not worth at all. So about issue:

1. https://testufo.com/framerates-versus#p ... =1&kiosk=1 - 48 fps test must be smooth, like the bottom one. You can use this test on your phone / ipad and on your smart tv and you can compare it with perfomance of your PC.
2. After reading this on your PC, try to move browser slowly left to right, and you will see that this text on your Monitor will be washed out, because it goes through defects ("stucked overlay"). It's not monitor, it's inside PC. Picture on PC is building from frames, all must be precise without defects. On these PCs text would always washing out even on 500hz monitor.
3. Get HWinfo and Aida software, watch on your PCH temperatures and start Ram benchamrks (you can use OCCT). will be no PCH thermodenamics despite of load and amount of connected devices.

CPU has north bridge, it is called system agent (intel) inside this huge block there is alot of crucial things, through this block CPU see external world and comminicates with each device through PCIE controller (PCIE root complex). To see sata ports and low speed bus SA must communicate with PCH. PCH is a crucial crystal too, everything you connect to PC connects directly to PCH even CPU and RAM. PCH it is i/o chipset itself(inside PCH located Management Engine), but CPU has i/o too. That's why it's unreal to say what is bad CPU or PCH, because they depend from each other and comminicates via DMI (pcie bus), but in most cases it's CPU because of it's complexity and CPU can opperate if even CPU's Caches is damaged or non operative (it will operate but much slower).

I dont want to make this post bigger with telling my story, but i will say next for advise and you have 3 ways:
1. Sell all & buy new with 100% warranty on return and you have to see each component before you pay money(CPU must be boxed only).
2. You can look and test used system before buying (never buy new prebuilds)
3. Or you can just live with that

You are searching - is working subsystem. On these pcs subsystem not works (subsystem is hardware & software based thing its PC inside your PC with it's own mini operation system and its very sensetive)
You have to buy only high branded & original RAM (not fake), better use Corsair modules - Ram is same crucial as CPU.
You have to buy Windows from Microsoft direclty, Windows Retail boxed original and genuine. On first boot you have to provide very first installation from that stick (if you dont have this opportunity you have to see on Microsoft site how to check holograms on box, all must be precise the same and bought this box from 100% trusted shop and you have to check this box before buying, or if you dont have even this opportunity, the last is to use Media Creation tool and install windows from that created stick and sit with non activating windows till you can get retail key from Microsoft). Your hadware must be licensed and you have to be it's first licensed owner. I mean there is no 5-50$ genuine Windows, it's duplicated and scrapped keys (which can be activated on many systems), as i said you have to be first and only one legit licensed owner of your windows and your hardware. (There is no chance that retail Windows could save your old setups, they could be damaged or locked and there is no unlock for that.) If you don't believe that windows could do damage, try to install Android OS on Iphone and see how this phone will operate after(and will be no turning back).

And now the worst part of it:
You can try to buy another CPU to test could it help or not, but chance is around 1-7% of success with retail windows. But i not suggest to do this because as i mentioned early big chance that innadequate CPU can damage PCH on a software level(subsystem). You want Synced PC and Synced games which provides you by Windows right? so PC & Subsystem & Windows must be fully synced to bring this experience to you.

In reality you have to play with silicon lottery. Try to build even one 101% system. Start with i5 cpus and google which boards are best and search for pch proper dynamics temps on boards.
About electricity, use Monitor and Router with AC stybilizer(50-100$ will be anough for this stybilizer) and you are safe (the safest veriant is to use wifi, believe me with worked subsystem will be no difference between lan and wifi, latency will be same awesome). Use antistatic gloves while building PC. First place Ram modules after put CPU in socket(i think better to place RAM first to exclude any static spike/short directly to CPU while installing modules in slots). Boot PC with minimalistic setup. Never touch bios, let system with windows do all on defaults. After windows installed, install chipset drivers after install ME interface and reboot PC and hope for the best. If all nice and good, first week don't touch XMP, lets all work on stock settings.

About your question about Spectrum and Precision Timer - never touch it, it will not help you now (will be no difference), on ideal systems, system will work flawlessy withiout any tweaks from bios, disabling precision timer could harm ideal system (on this system it can't harm because it's already faulty and it will yeah increase your perfomance but never solve any of these issues thith i/o latencies and overall incorrect work with i/o devices).
This issues are all the same, bad lod and i/o issues and if fps drops even on 2-3fps will be jitters (actually they are at native hertz/fps but they are just blurry - micro jitters that's why you have blurry in-motion - desync). Higher Monitors resolutions, higher fps -all of these makes worse, because system not work dinamicly with i/o and see all i/o like default (like any monitor, any mouse, any gpu)
Anyway, if you want ideal PC you have to play in silicon lottery with CPU especially and with board too. For me it took around half of a year to figuered it out and because of this wall of text(amount of infomation given for free) + diagnos + this hard advises - no one will light up this issue.

--- All you do or not do it's only on your own risk man----
I will not answer on further reply/posts.
P.s i will not anwser further because: 1. All precious is given on your request. 2 No guarantee that if you buy i5 & new board you will succed even with Retail Windows(but you can be sure with Windows atleast). It's lottery, each cpu performs different. 3. If you or another people could think that's its wrong or insane they can continue to wash out cables with water at each PC startup, nvm, you wanted help i showed the way, now depends of you. That's one of many reasons why no one lights this problem & i locked my videos and that's why all you do or not do it's on your own risk, like it or not, do you want this adventure or better live with that and dont bother.
P.ss unlocked videos
GL&HF

So have you solved the problem?

Posted: **06 Jul 2024, 15:24**

dervu wrote: ↑
29 Jun 2024, 07:59
It's simple, if you have varying strength of symptoms it will be electric grid related. Just don't tell me now that this supposed PCH issue sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

Yes you are right. Around 5am things look much better. I tinkered with the settings and realized why I was getting this 40% responsiveness. After resetting the BIOS, RAM overclocking was disabled and the voltage dropped, the mouse became a little faster and overall responsiveness improved. But this did not solve the global desynchronization. I played for about 3 days and it seemed like everything was fine, because... the mouse behaved well, but again after sitting until 5 in the morning I realized that the monitor, hit registration, and so on were still bad. Now we can 100% say that the problem is electrical, because... any decrease in voltage on the equipment gives a colossal increase in responsiveness due to the fact that electricity ceases to influence it. I probably scrolled through the entire forum and watched the entire YouTube. Has anyone found a solution to this problem?

The funny thing is that I reset my processor to 4.2 GHz at 5 am and it worked faster and more responsive than at 6.0 during the day. During the day, 4.2 GHz behaves as if I were trying to launch PUBG or CS2 on a dandy, stuttering, lags, stutters, torn Hertz of the monitor. And at night 4.2 behave perfectly. Even RAM in Aida64 with 90 nanoseconds of latency is better at night than the same memory with 55 nanoseconds during the day. I don’t know what to do anymore, I can’t come to terms with this thought, it makes me depressed.

Posted: **10 Jul 2024, 03:54**

Dissimilate777 wrote: ↑
06 Jul 2024, 15:24

dervu wrote: ↑
29 Jun 2024, 07:59
It's simple, if you have varying strength of symptoms it will be electric grid related. Just don't tell me now that this supposed PCH issue sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
Yes you are right. Around 5am things look much better. I tinkered with the settings and realized why I was getting this 40% responsiveness. After resetting the BIOS, RAM overclocking was disabled and the voltage dropped, the mouse became a little faster and overall responsiveness improved. But this did not solve the global desynchronization. I played for about 3 days and it seemed like everything was fine, because... the mouse behaved well, but again after sitting until 5 in the morning I realized that the monitor, hit registration, and so on were still bad. Now we can 100% say that the problem is electrical, because... any decrease in voltage on the equipment gives a colossal increase in responsiveness due to the fact that electricity ceases to influence it. I probably scrolled through the entire forum and watched the entire YouTube. Has anyone found a solution to this problem?

The funny thing is that I reset my processor to 4.2 GHz at 5 am and it worked faster and more responsive than at 6.0 during the day. During the day, 4.2 GHz behaves as if I were trying to launch PUBG or CS2 on a dandy, stuttering, lags, stutters, torn Hertz of the monitor. And at night 4.2 behave perfectly. Even RAM in Aida64 with 90 nanoseconds of latency is better at night than the same memory with 55 nanoseconds during the day. I don’t know what to do anymore, I can’t come to terms with this thought, it makes me depressed.

very sad to hear this. Have you tried using any electricity testers to understand why games work better at night than during the day? If there is such a difference, why can't we still determine it? there is no tester that will show this?
I recently purchased an electromagnetic radiation (EMF) tester. When I bring it directly to the processor I get the following values:
40-42uT.
But most often it is 80-85uT, I can’t say for sure that when this value increases, the game becomes worse, but at different times of the day these values change.

Posted: **11 Jul 2024, 11:31**

I tried 2 appartments, 2 houses, a generator, 3 different PCs but ALL OF THEM HAVE AN MSI MOTHERBOARD. Today I ordered an Asus TUF B660 and an i5 12400f. If that doesn't solve the problem I give up, I literally tried everything.

Posted: **12 Jul 2024, 11:01**

cl_predict wrote: ↑
11 Jul 2024, 11:31
I tried 2 appartments, 2 houses, a generator, 3 different PCs but ALL OF THEM HAVE AN MSI MOTHERBOARD. Today I ordered an Asus TUF B660 and an i5 12400f. If that doesn't solve the problem I give up, I literally tried everything.

that can be good.
im test 2 pc with 12400f, both work perfect, both is msi board (h610) vs mine 13700k + z790 msi.

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