Blur Busters Forums

Posted: **15 Jul 2024, 14:48**

Hi all -- New to the forum and happy to be here.

I am wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction when it comes to reading up on whether (and how) BFI can be used with 24p sources. Principally: are there any displays or scalers that can use BFI to help with 24 fps stutter? If not, is such a solution even realistically feasible in theory? It looks like the Retrotink 4K does this to some extent, but I'm still working my way through that thread.

Details below about the specifics of what I'm wondering about, but in short, any resources relating prospects of BFI helping with 24 fps stutter would be helpful. I didn't see any relevant stickies, and searches brought up a few threads that were obviously on point but clearly dealt with software and technologies I can't even identify from their acronyms (and I'm pretty well versed in all things video). Otherwise, I wouldn't have just started a thread.

More color on the specific technicals around what I'm curious about:

I'm a film nerd and videophile, and I love my LG CX OLED, but 24p stutter (to be clear, the kind caused by the rapid GtG of OLED) drives me crazy. Almost as crazy as any shred of SOE, so motion interpolation, even on low settings, is essentially out of the question. I typically use BFI on 60- and 120- Hz material, but it's obviously only effective for that. Using 120-Hz BFI on 24p material doesn't seem to create any problems, but it also doesn't really help. IMO, that stands to reason, since the issue is only at the transition between different frames in 5:5 pulldown (i.e., where the cadence is A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, B1, B2, B3, B4, B5, C1, C2..., the transition between only A5 and B1, B5 and C1, and so on). It doesn't exactly help to strobe each individual frame at 120 Hz, and strobing at 60 Hz introduces artifacts due to the fact that it may strobe individual frames more than once and may not strobe between the 5th and 1st of each series of 5, etc.).

It always seemed to me like it should be feasible for a display, source device (such as a Blu Ray player) or a scaler (Like the Retrotink) to identify the 5:5 pulldown cadence and insert black frames specifically where they logically would help, at the end of the 5-Hz cycle of each frame: i.e., A1, A2, A3, X, X, B1, B2, B3, X, X.... It certainly seems like at least a 120 Hz display, seeing as it performs the 5:5 pulldown, would be able to substitute black frames for the last 1 or 2 of each 5-cycle sequence per frame. I'm wondering if there are any displays that actually do that effectively, or any other forms of hardware that accomplish or might be configured to accomplish that same objective. And to learn more about the science behind why.

Any input is much appreciated.

EDIT: Revised to fix typos and for clarity.

Posted: **17 Jul 2024, 15:15**

Do you get eyestrain with 35mm projector BFI?
There are methods of using the Retrotink 4K to simulate a 35mm projector.

Did you know Retrotink 4K does BFI?
Yes, even for 24fps, single strobe (24Hz flicker), double strobe (48Hz flicker), and triple strobe (72Hz flicker)!

I helped Retrotink 4K add BFI, as well as 3:2 reverse telecine. Retrotink 4K is an officially licensed Blur Busters Approved product, the first that is not a display, but a box-in-the-middle BFI capable video processor.

I was the author of the world's first 3:2 pulldown deinterlacer (dScaler/dTV, year 2000, in the AVSFORUM HTPC days; I used to be a forum moderator there in 1999!). I have worked for Runco, Key Digital, and others, plus worked on Faroudja Fli2200 (through HOLO3DGRAPH). So, I've got video processor cred. My skills have applied my miracles to the Retrotink 4K video processor recently.

If you need BFI on 24Hz, I recommend 48Hz double-strobe (accomplishable via 96Hz). 24Hz flicker is painful to most, so I do not recommend less than 48Hz for BFI on 24fps (double strobe), just like 35mm projectors flashed each frame twice.

Retrotink 4K can do 35mm strobe emulation using 96Hz+VRR on any 4K 120Hz GSYNC OLEDs.

Custom Refresh Rate BFI Capability Unlocked for LG 4K VRR TVs including LG CX OLEDs

Retrotink 4K will do custom refresh rates (fixed-Hz encapsulated inside a VRR transport signal) to any LG GSYNC TV, as well as any Samsung VRR TV (etc). So you can have your 96Hz instead of 120Hz! LG TVs don't do 96Hz fixed-Hz, but we hacked this by piping 96Hz fixed-Hz inside a VRR signal. Like a perfect-framerate-capped 96fps. So any refresh rate inside your TV's variable refresh rate range, is fair game. Also since this is fixed-framerate, there's no VRR flicker when using the VRR hack on the Retrotink 4K for custom 96Hz on your LG CX OLED.

To do this, you need a 4-refresh per frame cadence (VISIBLE, black, REPEAT, black), so 96Hz for 24fps, or 120Hz for 30fps content. You have to use Strobe=2 and Persistence=1, while also disabling the low-Hz BFI preventer (toggle the setting in Retrotink 4K menus). And then turn on VRR. It's fixed-framerate over VRR, only to enable "96Hz BFI" that LG OLEDs otherwise do not support natively, but works via Retrotink 4K.

Then Retrotink 4K does a fantastically simulate the flicker of a 35mm projector, with similar motion blur reduction. You do also get a double-image style artifact (like CRT 30fps at 60Hz).

You can also do 144Hz and triple-strobe 24fps too (Strobe=3 and Presistence=1 in Retrotink menus).

If you want to purchase a Retrotink 4K box using Blur Busters' affiliate code, Blur Busters Affiliate Link for Retrotink 4K.

Retrotink 4K can do everything that TestUFO BFI can do, including Variable Persistence BFI, and Double Strobe BFI, and Triple Strobe BFI.

Make sure you have 4x refresh rate for double strobe software BFI (96Hz for 24fps), and make sure you have 6x refresh rate for your target triple strobe software BFI (144Hz for 24fps). Again, Retrotink can do custom resolutions, custom refresh rate, custom BFI strobe count, custom BFI persistence (As long as you have enough refresh rate headroom to vary the BFI persistence).

Retrotink 4K can also do dejudder-only duty too, e.g. convert 1080i/60 to 1080p/24, or BFI it to single/double/triple strobe too!

Limitations / Caveats

- You need a HDCP stripper if connecting your BluRay player to a Retrotink 4K.
- You cannot do input signal resolutions higher than 1080p. Configure your signal source.
- Also you are limited to 8 bit per channel. So you decimate your 10bit color if you're playing Blu Rays through a HDCP stripper through the Retrotink 4K video processor.
- Also you are limited in pixel clock bandwidth, so you cannot do 4K 96Hz. But you can do reduced resolutions, as you can create custom Linux-style modelines on a SD card that you insert into your Retrotink 4K. We have instructions how to convert NVIDIA Custom Resolution & ToastyX Custom Resolution into a Linux-style ModeLine that can be entered into the Retrotink 4K box.

You will need to do 1080p or 1440p if you want to do 96Hz. Also, in addition to 4K VRR televisions, ultrawide computer monitors also work as the Retrotink 4K will crop a Blu Ray player to fit your ultrawide computer monitor. Keep in mind OLED performs best with box-in-middle BFI, since box-in-middle BFI quality is dependant on the performance of pixel transitions.

Currently, this is the only off-the-shelf solution to give you 96Hz BFI for your 24fps source material on an existing 4K VRR TV. It will even deinterlace 60i to 60p before dejuddering to 24p, so you can even do 96Hz progressive-scan BFI (48Hz flicker) on your VHS/LaserDisc movies!

Movie Beta Testers Wanted for Retrotink 4K

No promises, but: If you want to be a beta tester, I'm working with Mike to add a potential upcoming GtG-simulator to "slow down" OLEDs for low frame rate material. Basically alphablend frames, not too dissimilar to what you're speaking.

I cannot promise how quick this firmware update will be, but if you wish to be a guinea pig, this slow-GtG mode could be an alternative to BFI modes. Basically, a high-Hz can emulate a lower-Hz slow-GtG display with alphablend crossfade refresh cycles.

As of July 2024, Mike just renewed a small BlurBusters x Retrotink contract (part time) so I'm now available to help Retrotink 4K with simple temporal-quality-improving feature enhancements that potentially can help people like you.

What it means is if you've already purchased a Retrotink 4K, then I have a beta tester (you), that can help with this. Beta firmwares are publicly downloadable from the Retrotink 4K discord, and you can see I've slipstreamed a lot of changes including the ability to remove the low-Hz BFI cap (which means you can do 24Hz single-strobe if you wished, if you're one of the few humans to be 100% insensitive to 24Hz flicker!)

Retrotink 4K is a good temporalphile box (aka, temporal version of videophile). If you can live with the severe Retrotink limitations put upon videophiles (Retrotink is targeted to retro gaming, but it's unlocked as a usable video processor for temporal-priority videophiles. If you prioritize temporal quality over spatial video quality and color depth, then Retrotink 4K is the best temporal box on the market if you can live with the resolution/colorspace limitations. Be noted you're getting a resolution and colorspace downgrade, to get the massive Blur Busters temporal features no other video processor can do.

So, this is an opportunity for me to tell other manufacturers of scalers/processors:
(Could use the money, as I'm still trying to internally fund the capital for Phase 2 of the formerly pandemic-delayed Blur Busters Tester prototypes)

Shameless Plug: Hire Blur Busters To Improve Your Video Processor Product

<Companies>
If Google caused you to read this post...

Video processor makers, yoo hoo, I'm available for contract hire on temporal consulting advice. I have clever optimized algorithms that fits processing budgets of FPGAs etc. After all, over twenty years ago, I helped a Pentium 233MMX real-time deinterlace and dejudder 480i better than a Faroudja line doubler. I even also coded for a Faroudja Fli2200 chip back in the early 2000s, and also worked on contract for Runco and Key Digital back in the day too.

Your software engineer who claims "it can't do that", check with this temporal doctor for a second opinion. You must may be surprised. I don't provide the code, but I help your coder implement the algorithm. I also train classrooms of engineers, developers, CTOs, and project managers as a side business to Blur Busters' main stuff.

Blur Busters is a display-temporals company. If you're needing help with temporals (3:2, 2:2, GtG, MPRT, BFI, lag, VRR, stutter, tearing, beamracing, motionblur, etc), consider supporting Blur Busters. Check services.blurbusters.com and contact me through there.
</Companies>

Posted: **21 Jul 2024, 01:33**

Hey Chief,

On the subject of optimising low Hz experiences using the Retrotink 4K...

As a PAL gamer, the 50hz flicker using BFI on retro gaming content can be pretty harsh.

Questions:
1) Would customisable placement of dimmed alpha frames for 50hz content via 200hz on the RT4k (ie flash dim dimmer dark) reduce the perception of flicker in this case?

2) would this be implementable on the tink?

Thanks!

Posted: **21 Jul 2024, 12:53**

roginthemachine wrote: ↑
21 Jul 2024, 01:33
Hey Chief,

On the subject of optimising low Hz experiences using the Retrotink 4K...

As a PAL gamer, the 50hz flicker using BFI on retro gaming content can be pretty harsh.

Questions:
1) Would customisable placement of dimmed alpha frames for 50hz content via 200hz on the RT4k (ie flash dim dimmer dark) reduce the perception of flicker in this case?

2) would this be implementable on the tink?

Yes and yes.

I will begin talking to Mike about adding alphablend softeners to BFI, but you will definitely need 200Hz for the "50%, 100%, 50%, 0%" four output refresh sequence per input refresh cycle. This feature is theoretically easy and will consume only a few % of the contract budget.

The picture will definitely be much darker, but you can also use the HDR brightness booster for SDR content. Make sure you have an HDR-compatible 200Hz+ OLED to take advantage of the HDR booster feature in a quality-improving manner. MiniLED HDR local dimming sometimes glitches due to 'lagsbehind' a lot sadly, it is often 1 refresh cycle behind. I will probably create a TestUFO tester as part of TestUFO 2.0 HDR, as I can do everything inside TestUFO too (HDR-boosted BFI demos), so you can try-before-buy.

TestUFO 2.0 will finally go public by end of August after a long beta-testing delay.

P.S. If you want to purchase a Retrotink 4K box using Blur Busters' affiliate code, Blur Busters Affiliate Link for Retrotink 4K.

Posted: **23 Jul 2024, 16:41**

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2024, 15:15
Do you get eyestrain with 35mm projector BFI?
There are methods of using the Retrotink 4K to simulate a 35mm projector.

Did you know Retrotink 4K does BFI?
Yes, even for 24fps, single strobe (24Hz flicker), double strobe (48Hz flicker), and triple strobe (72Hz flicker)!

I helped Retrotink 4K add BFI, as well as 3:2 reverse telecine. Retrotink 4K is an officially licensed Blur Busters Approved product, the first that is not a display, but a box-in-the-middle BFI capable video processor.

I was the author of the world's first 3:2 pulldown deinterlacer (dScaler/dTV, year 2000, in the AVSFORUM HTPC days; I used to be a forum moderator there in 1999!). I have worked for Runco, Key Digital, and others, plus worked on Faroudja Fli2200 (through HOLO3DGRAPH). So, I've got video processor cred. My skills have applied my miracles to the Retrotink 4K video processor recently.

If you need BFI on 24Hz, I recommend 48Hz double-strobe (accomplishable via 96Hz). 24Hz flicker is painful to most, so I do not recommend less than 48Hz for BFI on 24fps (double strobe), just like 35mm projectors flashed each frame twice.

Retrotink 4K can do 35mm strobe emulation using 96Hz+VRR on any 4K 120Hz GSYNC OLEDs.

Custom Refresh Rate BFI Capability Unlocked for LG 4K VRR TVs including LG CX OLEDs

Retrotink 4K will do custom refresh rates (fixed-Hz encapsulated inside a VRR transport signal) to any LG GSYNC TV, as well as any Samsung VRR TV (etc). So you can have your 96Hz instead of 120Hz! LG TVs don't do 96Hz fixed-Hz, but we hacked this by piping 96Hz fixed-Hz inside a VRR signal. Like a perfect-framerate-capped 96fps. So any refresh rate inside your TV's variable refresh rate range, is fair game. Also since this is fixed-framerate, there's no VRR flicker when using the VRR hack on the Retrotink 4K for custom 96Hz on your LG CX OLED.

To do this, you need a 4-refresh per frame cadence (VISIBLE, black, REPEAT, black), so 96Hz for 24fps, or 120Hz for 30fps content. You have to use Strobe=2 and Persistence=1, while also disabling the low-Hz BFI preventer (toggle the setting in Retrotink 4K menus). And then turn on VRR. It's fixed-framerate over VRR, only to enable "96Hz BFI" that LG OLEDs otherwise do not support natively, but works via Retrotink 4K.

Then Retrotink 4K does a fantastically simulate the flicker of a 35mm projector, with similar motion blur reduction. You do also get a double-image style artifact (like CRT 30fps at 60Hz).

You can also do 144Hz and triple-strobe 24fps too (Strobe=3 and Presistence=1 in Retrotink menus).

If you want to purchase a Retrotink 4K box using Blur Busters' affiliate code, Blur Busters Affiliate Link for Retrotink 4K.

Retrotink 4K can do everything that TestUFO BFI can do, including Variable Persistence BFI, and Double Strobe BFI, and Triple Strobe BFI.

Make sure you have 4x refresh rate for double strobe software BFI (96Hz for 24fps), and make sure you have 6x refresh rate for your target triple strobe software BFI (144Hz for 24fps). Again, Retrotink can do custom resolutions, custom refresh rate, custom BFI strobe count, custom BFI persistence (As long as you have enough refresh rate headroom to vary the BFI persistence).

Retrotink 4K can also do dejudder-only duty too, e.g. convert 1080i/60 to 1080p/24, or BFI it to single/double/triple strobe too!

Limitations / Caveats

- You need a HDCP stripper if connecting your BluRay player to a Retrotink 4K.
- You cannot do input signal resolutions higher than 1080p. Configure your signal source.
- Also you are limited to 8 bit per channel. So you decimate your 10bit color if you're playing Blu Rays through a HDCP stripper through the Retrotink 4K video processor.
- Also you are limited in pixel clock bandwidth, so you cannot do 4K 96Hz. But you can do reduced resolutions, as you can create custom Linux-style modelines on a SD card that you insert into your Retrotink 4K. We have instructions how to convert NVIDIA Custom Resolution & ToastyX Custom Resolution into a Linux-style ModeLine that can be entered into the Retrotink 4K box.

You will need to do 1080p or 1440p if you want to do 96Hz. Also, in addition to 4K VRR televisions, ultrawide computer monitors also work as the Retrotink 4K will crop a Blu Ray player to fit your ultrawide computer monitor. Keep in mind OLED performs best with box-in-middle BFI, since box-in-middle BFI quality is dependant on the performance of pixel transitions.

Currently, this is the only off-the-shelf solution to give you 96Hz BFI for your 24fps source material on an existing 4K VRR TV. It will even deinterlace 60i to 60p before dejuddering to 24p, so you can even do 96Hz progressive-scan BFI (48Hz flicker) on your VHS/LaserDisc movies!

Movie Beta Testers Wanted for Retrotink 4K

No promises, but: If you want to be a beta tester, I'm working with Mike to add a potential upcoming GtG-simulator to "slow down" OLEDs for low frame rate material. Basically alphablend frames, not too dissimilar to what you're speaking.

I cannot promise how quick this firmware update will be, but if you wish to be a guinea pig, this slow-GtG mode could be an alternative to BFI modes. Basically, a high-Hz can emulate a lower-Hz slow-GtG display with alphablend crossfade refresh cycles.

As of July 2024, Mike just renewed a small BlurBusters x Retrotink contract (part time) so I'm now available to help Retrotink 4K with simple temporal-quality-improving feature enhancements that potentially can help people like you.

What it means is if you've already purchased a Retrotink 4K, then I have a beta tester (you), that can help with this. Beta firmwares are publicly downloadable from the Retrotink 4K discord, and you can see I've slipstreamed a lot of changes including the ability to remove the low-Hz BFI cap (which means you can do 24Hz single-strobe if you wished, if you're one of the few humans to be 100% insensitive to 24Hz flicker!)

Retrotink 4K is a good temporalphile box (aka, temporal version of videophile). If you can live with the severe Retrotink limitations put upon videophiles (Retrotink is targeted to retro gaming, but it's unlocked as a usable video processor for temporal-priority videophiles. If you prioritize temporal quality over spatial video quality and color depth, then Retrotink 4K is the best temporal box on the market if you can live with the resolution/colorspace limitations. Be noted you're getting a resolution and colorspace downgrade, to get the massive Blur Busters temporal features no other video processor can do.

So, this is an opportunity for me to tell other manufacturers of scalers/processors:
(Could use the money, as I'm still trying to internally fund the capital for Phase 2 of the formerly pandemic-delayed Blur Busters Tester prototypes)

Shameless Plug: Hire Blur Busters To Improve Your Video Processor Product

<Companies>
If Google caused you to read this post...

Video processor makers, yoo hoo, I'm available for contract hire on temporal consulting advice. I have clever optimized algorithms that fits processing budgets of FPGAs etc. After all, over twenty years ago, I helped a Pentium 233MMX real-time deinterlace and dejudder 480i better than a Faroudja line doubler. I even also coded for a Faroudja Fli2200 chip back in the early 2000s, and also worked on contract for Runco and Key Digital back in the day too.

Your software engineer who claims "it can't do that", check with this temporal doctor for a second opinion. You must may be surprised. I don't provide the code, but I help your coder implement the algorithm. I also train classrooms of engineers, developers, CTOs, and project managers as a side business to Blur Busters' main stuff.

Blur Busters is a display-temporals company. If you're needing help with temporals (3:2, 2:2, GtG, MPRT, BFI, lag, VRR, stutter, tearing, beamracing, motionblur, etc), consider supporting Blur Busters. Check services.blurbusters.com and contact me through there.
</Companies>

Chief: Holy crap, this is one heck of a download. I appreciate the incredible thoroughness here and the resources to learn more. I'm just getting into ... Blur-busting? Temporal optimization? Temporaphilia? Display temporals, I guess. Whatever it should be called, this is very helpful.

Heck of a trip down memory lane, too: I've been on AVS Forum for over 20 years (it's ... *different* now...), and actually using an HTPC with dScaler back then to feed my Loewe Aconda (yes, really). DVDs upscaled, slightly sharpened and rendered at 1440x960 back then. Always did want an outboard Faroudja processor, but couldn't afford it, so the HTPC was a DIY-ey compromise (it was my own actual personal PC, just with my Aconda as a second monitor, hooked up by about 80 feet of the beefiest VGA cable I've ever seen to this day).

Congratulations on a tremendous accomplishment with the Retrotink 4K. Having read up on it so far, it sounds like the unchallenged standard-bearer for image processing for retro gaming. I've been turning over a purchase in my mind on the basis of what sounds like some real strengths in video processing that I think would be great for my LaserDisc and VHS collections, and now for BFI injection.

I don't think I'm very sensitive to flicker anywhere at or above 60 fps BFI. Probably the finest motion handling I've ever seen, I think, was by my Pioneer KRP-500 plasma in 72 Hz mode (or *is*, I should say -- still in use in the bedroom 15 years later, still looks great, still no burn-in). On that basis, assuming the mere fact that OLED is a sample-and-hold display does not, itself, make matters significantly worse, all other things being equal, I think if I could use a triple strobe for 24 fps material, I don't think I'd have any issues with the side effects.

The resolution and colorspace limitations are a tough pill to swallow, from my perspective, though. Not worried about it for retro games, LD, VHS, Beta, etc. Blu Rays would be workable if I could conveniently address the HDCP thing, too, but it sounds like there'd still be no real solutions for my 4Ks and streaming content. I think it would be really great if someone (i.e., you and whatever coalition of the willing might heed your siren call) could put out a proper high-quality scaler box for this new age of very finnicky video standards. Still, I see a lot of applications in my collection for the Retrotink 4K's existing capabilities, and you make a very appealing pitch on the idea of beta testing more low-FPS solutions. It sounds like what you're describing would basically make a sample-and-hold display behave perceptually more like scanning displays by simulating some of the rise and fall of the glow cycle on those. Neat idea, and it'd probably work nicely combined with some BFI in low-framerate pulldown processing.

I assume the IP owners and hardware manufacturers don't make it easy: They already seem psychotically concerned with keeping people from putting anything between their source and display at all. Aside from that, there's the processing muscle and smart programming it would take to allow users to tweak the video signal without creating problems with the HDR implementation, colorspace, HDMI handshakes, etc. And it really, really seems like the content owners don't want third parties (including end users) to be able to mess around with the display parameters at all, really. I'm guessing that's a major reason why playback devices seem like they'll never be able to actually manage BFI strobing on the player side, and everything just kind of has to be done by the display.

Thanks again for all the info. I'm now giving the Retrotink 4K a serious look....

Posted: **23 Jul 2024, 22:00**

Keeping in mind, the Retrotink 4K was designed first-and-foremost for retrogaming.

The retro home theater perks are however now included as a bonus, and it can really outperform some classical home theater scalers in a bunch of duties, and can take up the 3:2 and dejudder duty that many cheap TVs don't have either.

MrGonk wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2024, 16:41
The resolution and colorspace limitations are a tough pill to swallow, from my perspective, though. Not worried about it for retro games, LD, VHS, Beta, etc.

If you disable the CRT filters (which should run at native resolution), your TV scaler can do a quite decent job of "finishing the scaling job" from 1080p scaled to 4K. So for your 480i/480p content, it's acceptable. And for any 720p content, 2160p is an exact multiple of 3 in both dimensions too.

MrGonk wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2024, 16:41
Blu Rays would be workable if I could conveniently address the HDCP thing, too

That unfortunately will require a HDCP stripper.

MrGonk wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2024, 16:41
but it sounds like there'd still be no real solutions for my 4Ks and streaming content.

Alas, you'll have to live with just 1080p signal input (maximum).

MrGonk wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2024, 16:41
I think it would be really great if someone (i.e., you and whatever coalition of the willing might heed your siren call) could put out a proper high-quality scaler box for this new age of very finnicky video standards.

If anyone reaches out to me, I'm happy to help add my algorithms.

MrGonk wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2024, 16:41
Still, I see a lot of applications in my collection for the Retrotink 4K's existing capabilities, and you make a very appealing pitch on the idea of beta testing more low-FPS solutions. It sounds like what you're describing would basically make a sample-and-hold display behave perceptually more like scanning displays by simulating some of the rise and fall of the glow cycle on those. Neat idea, and it'd probably work nicely combined with some BFI in low-framerate pulldown processing.

Yes, this is an ultra-long-term initiative. It may very well be niche, but this is right up Blur Busters alley.

MrGonk wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2024, 16:41
Thanks again for all the info. I'm now giving the Retrotink 4K a serious look....

If you do, then let me know please. I'll give a few new features a push.

Keep in mind you can also just bypass the Retrotink 4K for your "must stay at 4K or 10+bit or HDR" content by using an appropriate switcher (e.g. home theater receiver). Just make sure that your receiver has full passthrough that will pass through all EDIDs and VRR, so all that cake frosting is left preserved and unmodified by your receiver.

Also keep in mind that box-in-middle BFI can have weird effects with LCDs/FALDs, it works most reliably with OLEDs.

_________

<Optional Educational Reading>

I observe you're talking about loving motion resolution, and plasma motion clarity.

Are you familiar with the modern Blur Busters sciences?

So, let me toot another motion handling tip for you...
- Motion blur of flicker displays is the pulsetime (length of flicker), assuming framerate=Hz
- Motion blur of flickerless displays is the frametime (the framerate), assuming GtG=0
Therein lies the two methods of motion blur reduction.

Current 480Hz desktop OLEDs massively outperform Pioneer plasmas if you can sustain 480fps, so the plasma benchmark has already been beat, provided you get a game to spray 480fps at it. Basically, framerate-based motion blur reduction instead of flicker-based motion blur reduction. It's quite a sight to behold to see CRT motion clarity without the use of any form of flicker on a sample and hold display. But obviously, that's not a home theater use case as that's low frame rates (24fps, 30fps, 60fps, and their variants, like 23.976 / 59.94 and the silly weaksauce HFR 48-120 which should ideally be replaced by 1000fps UltraHFR -- www.blurbusters.com/ultrahfr ...). I'm a 24fps guy or a 1000fps guy, the intermediates are junk to me for various temporal-videophile reasons.

P.S. If you are a CRT/plasma lover, and want CRT-motion-clarity browser scrolling / panning / etc, then you should race to a 360Hz+ OLED for a computer desktop. Desktop OLEDs of minimum 240Hz are now office-ready, and even some mainstream websites now acknowledge 240Hz is now great for office use cases, if you're motionblur sensitive for panning/turning/scrolling. When OLEDs reach 240Hz+ on desktop, they begin to perform plasma-like, and 480Hz+ now outperform the Pioneer plamas in motion handling -- even for 480fps web browser smooth scrolling.

"The 240Hz refresh rate at 4K is much better than I was expecting for productivity work." -- TechSpot.

1000Hz is not just for games. Even if you are a motion clarity nut and love the Apple 120Hz OLED iPad/iPhones, and are not interested in games, we recommend you upgrade refresh rates by at least 2x-4x at GtG=0, and avoid the useless-to-most refresh rate incrementalism (e.g. 60->85Hz or 120->144Hz). 120Hz OLED is not enough to beat plasma motion clarity, but 240Hz 240Hz starts to match, and 480fps 480Hz exceeds. Even for mudane browser scrolling on a big screen (if you notice this stuff -- not everyone pays attention, like not everyone sees 3:2 judder) and other things that really shine on a CRT. We welcome 1000fps 1000Hz motion handling for office/productivity cases at Blur Busters because we get the flicker-free operation, while having CRT motion clarity. The name of the game is geometrics and GtG=0, for mainstream benefits (e.g. Grandma can see 120-vs-480 OLED better than 60-vs-120 LCD...).

In the sphere of refresh rates and motion blurs -- I have been cited quite a few times, approximately in 35 research papers (www.blurbusters.com/area51 and www.blurbusters.com/research-papers) -- Samsung researchers even cited my TestUFO motion resolution tests. Ignore the rest of the Internet's "Humans Can't See X Frames Per Second" as it neglects that human can see the difference between a camera shutter 1/240sec versus camera shutter 1/1000sec. The motionblur differential of a flickerless 240fps 240Hz display and a flickerless 960fps 960Hz is exactly 4x, at GtG=0 (instant pixel transitions, sample and hold, zero flicker). Maximum possible human perceivable motion resolution, aka "retina refresh rate" of a flickerless display is not until the quintuple-digits -- 20,000fps at 20,000Hz estimated -- at the most extreme scientific variables (Vicious Cycle Effect).

That's why VR headsets are still forced to flicker. Quest 2 flickers at 0.3ms MPRT, which will require 1000/0.3 = 3333fps 3333Hz to match the same motion clarity without using any flicker. It's TOUGH eliminating motion blur AND stroboscopics simultaneously, because of the phantom array effect (The Stroboscopic Effect of Finite Frame Rates). So that really really ramps up the retina refresh rate, when accounting for visible effects. Even when you're beyond flicker fusion, you still have stroboscopics/phantomarrays which makes VR looking different from real life (blurs aren't always a continuous blur; but a stroboscopic blur). Likewise, on desktop displays, depending on whether your eyes are tracking the object or not -- e.g. www.testufo.com/eyetracking animation.

Not relevant for 24fps 24Hz stuff, but if you're a "motion resolution" freak, its a fun rabbit hole to learn about the recent-research display motion blur sciences. If you cannot click any links above today, feel free to set aside an afternoon for these two links: www.testufo.com/eyetracking and www.blurbusters.com/area51 as they're a fascinating read for motion-clarity freaks.

</Optional Educational Reading>

Posted: **24 Jul 2024, 04:22**

I suggest waiting for the next Retrotink... whenever that might come out

Posted: **26 Jul 2024, 14:54**

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑
21 Jul 2024, 12:53
I will begin talking to Mike about adding alphablend softeners to BFI, but you will definitely need 200Hz for the "50%, 100%, 50%, 0%" four output refresh sequence per input refresh cycle. This feature is theoretically easy and will consume only a few % of the contract budget.

Just a random question. For, say, 50hz->200hz or 60fps->240fps... What is superior?

The full screen alpha blend (which is kind of like a pulse, right?) between 4 frames like the above or faking a strobe between 4 frames like this?:

100% (Top 25% of screen) / 50% (2nd 25% of screen) / 0% (3rd 25% of screen) / 50% (4th 25% of screen) (F1)
50% (Top 25% of screen) / 100% (2nd 25% of screen) / 50% (3rd 25% of screen) / 0% (4th 25% of screen) (F2)
0% (Top 25% of screen) / 50% (2nd 25% of screen) / 100% (3rd 25% of screen) / 50% (4th 25% of screen) (F3)
50% (Top 25% of screen) / 0% (2nd 25% of screen) / 50% (3rd 25% of screen) / 100% (4th 25% of screen) (F4)

I was thinking of how CRT draws from top to bottom, trying to emulate that. But maybe not a good idea!

Posted: **27 Jul 2024, 08:29**

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2024, 15:15
Did you know Retrotink 4K does BFI?

Did you know the Retrotink 4K costs $750?

Posted: **27 Jul 2024, 15:41**

Will there be a future RetroTINK scaler than can do BFI at '4K' for 60fps games, and also 4K for 24-30fps movie/TV content?

I'll be picking up a Tink4K in the next month, but It's just a tad disappointing that it's BFI for both of the following above is capped at 1080p, but it makes sense at this point since 4K compatibility would of jacked the price up even higher.

Definitely not a deal breaker, because a 50% drop in motion blur when gaming on a QD-OLED TV at 60fps, and more than a 50% reduction with the same TV as it supports 144hz, for movies & TV, combined with less film judder than even a CRT with it's triple strobe 144hz BFI is a far bigger upgrade than sticking with 4K at a 100% motion blur, combined with that nasty excess OLED film judder. I'll probably be able to adjust to those mild BFI flicks too. Here's hoping!

For a future Tink Scaler, i'd love to see '4K' @60fps BFI with an included 4ms persistence or possibly even lower(While using the HDR10 brightness boost setting), even less transceiver lag and less BFI lag. Currently, it's 2-2.5ms with transceiver lag, and then 8.3ms for Tink4k BFI lag. Either they get both lower, if possible, or TV manufactures achieve less than 10ms for modern OLED 60fps game mode. Then again, wouldn't a a future tink 4ms persistence get latency down to 4ms instead of 8.3ms?

A 240hz 77" QD-OLED, with a 4ms motion persistence(Using future tink scaler's bfi) at 4K would be amazing. But for now I'm sticking with 65", since that's a much better size for Tink4K's 1080p cap.

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