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Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 17 Oct 2025, 13:22
by i_apocalypseon
If I were honest the difference with using crt beam in retroarch is subtle. Placebo? Cos when I use my monitors strobing at 120, ufo persistence test, shows the diff clearly. Am I not using the right parameters? I recently got prescription glasses. Also would it be more obvious on a 240hz+ display?
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 17 Oct 2025, 13:55
by Chief Blur Buster
i_apocalypseon wrote: ↑17 Oct 2025, 13:22
If I were honest the difference with using crt beam in retroarch is
subtle. Placebo? Cos when I use my monitors strobing at 120, ufo persistence test, shows the diff clearly. Am I not using the right parameters? I recently got prescription glasses. Also would it be more obvious on a 240hz+ display?
Definitely. Bigger geometrics is much clearer.
60 vs 240 = will show a 4x blur difference (like 1/60sec shutter vs 1/240sec shutter)
60 vs 480 = will show a 8x blur difference (like 1/60sec shutter vs 1/480sec shutter)
Also, most retro content don't scroll fast enough to really highlight this. Test stuff like fast Super Mario running & Sonic Hedgehog running, and you'll definitely see 240Hz+.
Sample and hold blur in retro games mainly becomes visible during fast full screen scrolling. So you won't see a difference in say, Galaxian or Pac Man, but you definitely see the difference in Super Mario and Sonic Hedgehog. SCROLLING, PANNING at framerate=Hz is where the blur busting makes the biggest difference.
Also, LCD GtG (without good crosstalk-free strobing) can make 60 vs 120 a smaller difference than usual, so OLED will amplify differences between Hz much more so.
See
https://blurbusters.com/120vs480 about why "Geometrics Matters". (4x-8x)
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 17 Oct 2025, 14:34
by i_apocalypseon
Got it. Thanks for detailed response. Will digest it first.
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 18 Oct 2025, 17:40
by purplemelon1
I second the advice. Sonic the hedgehog 3 and maybe knuckles is the easiest example. Another good game that goes even faster is echo the dolphin.
In sonic 3nk. You don't even have to play. The intro itself is very noticeable. The ocean is a bit subtle. Entering those trees and tracking with your eyes as they pass feels like you got eye surgery and glasses combined. Or going from a ps4 to ps4 pro etc. I generally don't care for 120hz clarity. It did help me react better in my recent playthrough.
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 20 Oct 2025, 14:17
by i_apocalypseon
I'll definitely try out sonic. On a separate note, does crt flicker cause eye strain? Especially if its at 60hz?
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 20 Oct 2025, 14:22
by i_apocalypseon
Like I just saw a video explaining how sample and hold blur causes eyestrain.
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 20 Oct 2025, 14:31
by kyube
i_apocalypseon wrote: ↑20 Oct 2025, 14:17
I'll definitely try out sonic. On a separate note, does crt flicker cause eye strain? Especially if its at 60hz?
All light flicker can cause eye fatigue or other lesser noticable, neurological symptoms. Regardless of intensity or frequency
i_apocalypseon wrote: ↑20 Oct 2025, 14:22
Like I just saw a video explaining how sample and hold blur causes eyestrain.
Yes, it does. Think of it as permanently defocusing your eyes due to the low frame rate of the content causing blurring.
I commonly colloquially refer to it as "permanent vaseline"
It's why it's "anti-human" to create <500FPS games, our eyes need much more sample rate to be close to analog reality.
It's the single most important graphical fidelity "effect" any game developer can "implement" to their game.
Thankfully, as of Q3 2025, display have never been better.
With the arrival of 480-540Hz OLED, we can finally put away the terrible "permanent vaseline" effect of low frame rate dynamic content without resorting to light flicker
As a off-topic side-note: I'm in the process of creating a +400FPS game list, which I hope I'll be able to finish by the end of the year.
I've been able to accumulate more than 300 titles (released in the 2000-2025 time frame) out of ~5k titles that I've went through which fit into this category.
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 20 Oct 2025, 14:49
by i_apocalypseon
Whoa that 400+fps games list sounds super useful! I'll keep an eye out for that one. You go man!
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 20 Oct 2025, 22:33
by purplemelon1
Atuote=kyube post_id=119671 time=1760988665 user_id=3649]
i_apocalypseon wrote: ↑20 Oct 2025, 14:17
I'll definitely try out sonic. On a separate note, does crt flicker cause eye strain? Especially if its at 60hz?
All light flicker can cause eye fatigue or other lesser noticable, neurological symptoms. Regardless of intensity or frequency
i_apocalypseon wrote: ↑20 Oct 2025, 14:22
Like I just saw a video explaining how sample and hold blur causes eyestrain.
Yes, it does. Think of it as permanently defocusing your eyes due to the low frame rate of the content causing blurring.
I commonly colloquially refer to it as "permanent vaseline"
It's why it's "anti-human" to create <500FPS games, our eyes need much more sample rate to be close to analog reality.
It's the single most important graphical fidelity "effect" any game developer can "implement" to their game.
Thankfully, as of Q3 2025, display have never been better.
With the arrival of 480-540Hz OLED, we can finally put away the terrible "permanent vaseline" effect of low frame rate dynamic content without resorting to light flicker
As a off-topic side-note: I'm in the process of creating a +400FPS game list, which I hope I'll be able to finish by the end of the year.
I've been able to accumulate more than 300 titles (released in the 2000-2025 time frame) out of ~5k titles that I've went through which fit into this category.
[/quote]
Thats quite incredible. This deserves it's own category in pcgamingwiki. For exampleI had no idea tomb raider 2013 could go to 900fps on a 5090 at 1080p. I wonder if metrics to add games that aren't quite there but could be with a 50% cpu uplift could be added. That would need community help.
Re: Not sensitive to sample and hold blur.
Posted: 23 Oct 2025, 00:39
by purplemelon1
purplemelon1 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2025, 22:33
kyube wrote: ↑20 Oct 2025, 14:31
i_apocalypseon wrote: ↑20 Oct 2025, 14:17
I'll definitely try out sonic. On a separate note, does crt flicker cause eye strain? Especially if its at 60hz?
All light flicker can cause eye fatigue or other lesser noticable, neurological symptoms. Regardless of intensity or frequency
i_apocalypseon wrote: ↑20 Oct 2025, 14:22
Like I just saw a video explaining how sample and hold blur causes eyestrain.
Yes, it does. Think of it as permanently defocusing your eyes due to the low frame rate of the content causing blurring.
I commonly colloquially refer to it as "permanent vaseline"
It's why it's "anti-human" to create <500FPS games, our eyes need much more sample rate to be close to analog reality.
It's the single most important graphical fidelity "effect" any game developer can "implement" to their game.
Thankfully, as of Q3 2025, display have never been better.
With the arrival of 480-540Hz OLED, we can finally put away the terrible "permanent vaseline" effect of low frame rate dynamic content without resorting to light flicker
As a off-topic side-note: I'm in the process of creating a +400FPS game list, which I hope I'll be able to finish by the end of the year.
I've been able to accumulate more than 300 titles (released in the 2000-2025 time frame) out of ~5k titles that I've went through which fit into this category.
Thats quite incredible. This deserves it's own category in pcgamingwiki. For exampleI had no idea tomb raider 2013 could go to 900fps on a 5090 at 1080p. I wonder if metrics to add games that aren't quite there but could be with a 50% cpu uplift could be added. That would need community help.