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new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.

new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby ahmedpc03 » 20 Mar 2018, 20:18

Hi

i got my pg258q a day a go and noticed that there is a little bit light flickering during the game loading or when start the game for a second then every thing back to normal

i would like to know if this is normal or not with gsync

i heard that light flickering possible with gsync when frames drops

disabling the gsync there is no flicking at all
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 20 Mar 2018, 21:20

An extremely faint flickering is normal for many variable refresh rate monitors -- it's because the loading screens fall to 30 Hertz refresh rate, and then it all speeds up again to 240 Hz. A very subtle (non-annoying) flicker is normal during dramatic swings in variable refresh rate.

That dramatic difference in refresh rate has some different effects on LCD panels, since 30 Hz means more time for pixels to decay (or show amplified inversion artifact flicker www.testufo.com/inversion ....)
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby ahmedpc03 » 20 Mar 2018, 21:51

pro chief

we cant do without you in this forum :D

thank you .... have a great day
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby RealNC » 20 Mar 2018, 21:57

I don't get any flickering, regardless of whether it's 30FPS or 1FPS. Not sure why this would be considered normal.
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 20 Mar 2018, 22:00

RealNC wrote:I don't get any flickering, regardless of whether it's 30FPS or 1FPS. Not sure why this would be considered normal.

You have IPS.
A very minor inversion-induced flickering is commonn on VRR TN panels.
If you have never seen it before, it's like a variable-speed inversion checkerboard-texture pattern.

If you have a TN monitor, enable ULMB, run http://www.testufo.com/ghosting in odd-pixel step mode (e.g. 7ppf) and even-pixel step mode (e.g. 8ppf). Compare the two, there are dramatically different artifacts in TN-based ULMB during odd-pixel-step and even-pixel-step motion. That's another example of (a more common) inversion-amplified artifacts that are non-eliminatable on every single strobed TN panel I've seen, 144Hz, 240Hz, 2013 era, 2018 era. Some fainter, some stronger, but not completely eliminated.

Image
(ULMB amplified inversion artifact from this post)
At 30 Hertz refresh rate, the dim pixels and bright pixels alternate positions -- causing a faint 15 Hertz frequency flicker between slightly-brighter-versus-slightly-darker opposite checkerboards (no lower than that, though -- it's minimum VRR range.)

During non-ULMB, the checkerboard texture artifact is still there more faintly, just not as intense as the above -- especially if you look at solid backgrounds during even-pixel-step and odd-pixel-step motion tests. The best 240 Hz TN monitors can have it fairly faintly, but not completely gone. Now throw in a variable refresh rate into the equation, and...

Anyway, this a common cause of TN-based 30 Hz flicker during variable refresh rate displays. Some have it less than others, but to a certain extent, some amount of inversion artifact (sometimes really faint, sometimes strong) is unavoidable. It's the magnitude of these that varies between monitor to monitor.

But now... back to VRR. When VRR goes to 30 Hz, the alternating inversion voltage checkerboard pattern alternates back-and-fourth only 15 times cyles a second (positive, negative, positive, negative, positive, negative) -- and since the GtG exact color value of the positive counterpart of the voltage and negative counterpart of voltage, may not always be perfectly balanced -- you have a slight color shade difference. We don't see it at high refresh rates because the inversion pattern alternates extremely rapidly. But, at 30 Hertz -- now that's an extremely slow LCD voltage inversion alternating. That's what causes extremely minor GSYNC and FreeSync flickering at 30 Hz on several high-refresh-rate TN panels. Sometimes even when the inversion is extremely faint, the sudden VRR refresh rate change (30Hz, 240Hz) can cause slight differences in the transition that is more noticeable than 30Hz-steady or 240Hz-steady.

If it flickers noticeably, it's bad. But if it flicker faintly, it's generally normal for many LCD panel technologies driven at an unusually low refresh rate. IPS is much less prone to inversion flicker than TN.

LCD inversion is the rapidly alternating positive/negative voltage that screen electronics do to balance the voltage on a screen.
http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion

This explains where LCD screens are designed to rapidly invert voltage polarities (+/-) every refresh cycle as they do it as a matter of technology necessity. They try to do it invisibly. But unfortunately inversion artifacts sometimes become visible on fast-responding panels. Inversion artifacts (if they appear) are the side effects of this operation. LCD panels are continually improving, but on TN, this side-effect is often generally unavoidable.

Unless the OP was describing a different effect, that is indeed a monitor manufacturer issue (e.g. erratically flickering backlight, etc).

But the OP says "loading screen only" -- which I immediately recognized as 30Hz. That causes a 15 Hz inversion-artifact flicker in some cases. It's not a strong flicker, more of a faint-fade-flicker (very light flickering). So that's how my diagnosis directly went to what I already know.

That's why I was so quick to diagnose the cause of the flicker, because this inversion-artifact-induced flicker becomes most noticeable during the 30 Hz refresh rate (15 Hz inversion-induced faint flicker). However, we also scientifically know that flickerate transition effects (the moment something BEGINS flickering, and the moment that something STOPS flickering) is sometimes more noticeable than the flicker itself. Very faint flicker can easily be missed if it weren't for the transition effect (transition into faint flickering, and transition out of faint flickering). So the gyrating of framerates causes 30Hz all the way to 240Hz then back. Creates the amplified flicker-noticed effect, since the soft 15Hz flicker only occurs at the game menus, the thing that is precisely driving the monitor to refresh at 30Hz with a low-frequency voltage inversion cycle. Which, elementary, my dear, precisely occurs during times when an on-screen menu pops up on certain variable-refresh-rate displays causing the variable refresh rate to be minimum (i.e. 30 Hz). Also visibility of inversion artifacts are most amplified on low-dpi faster panels (e.g. worst on 27" 1080p TN GSYNC panels) because the lines-patterning or checkerboard-patterning of inversion is much more visible. This Sherlock Holmes diagnosis, delivered quickly -- because "It's a TN" plus also "It Only Occurs At Game Menus". Thank you. *bows* ;)

Inversion can be fainter on some higher quality TN panels though, but never non-existent on TN panels, if you look closely enough at the screen for the checkerboard-texture in the solid backgrounds of moving objects (more especially so in their strobe modes or fast-responding panels running at their lowest refresh rates).

If you hate inversion artifacts, you definitely want to get IPS. Inversion artifacts are generally practically invisible on most IPS panels. Slower displays usually are less prone to inversion artifacts.
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby ahmedpc03 » 20 Mar 2018, 23:56

valuable information
thank you
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 21 Mar 2018, 15:32

You are welcome!

I'm also assuming that the flicker is extremely faint and non-objectionable, especially since it only occurs at ultra-low-framerates (e.g. game menus) which causes the display to run at an ultra-low refresh rate of 30 Hertz with its attendant 15Hz inversion cycling.
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby ahmedpc03 » 28 Mar 2018, 00:29

now i have flickering with new game called (Forged Battalion)

as i mentioned before.... worry about flickering during loading... and the the problem as you told me Chief cause fps drops below 30 fps and the gsync goes on off on off

in (forged Battalion) game, i have flicking during the game play and the mouse cursor movement is stuttering and not smooth

the fps is almost 120 and i think the game is capped on 120

on my first.p.s games like titanfall 2 and sniper ghost warrior 3

the flickering is during the loading only , during the game play no flickering

in titanfall 2 in the main menu i am facing the same issue... flickering with mouse movement stuttering
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby ahmedpc03 » 29 Mar 2018, 18:56

ok
i think there was a driver issue
i fixed it
in (some games as mentioned before) now the flickering ls less noticeable
but the problem is there is still mouse jitter with gsync
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Re: new pg258q monitor .... light flickering issue

Postby sippycup » 12 Jul 2018, 16:15

RealNC wrote:I don't get any flickering, regardless of whether it's 30FPS or 1FPS. Not sure why this would be considered normal.

Hi RealNC, what is your monitor?
Is it free from light flickering on loading screen, in-game menu and at low fps/refresh rate? If its 100% free from faint light flicker i will change my monitor.
My TN gsync panel does same issue like op, my eye cant accept this faint flicker, i even turning off g-sync because of this :(
I really hope theres a perfect gsync monitor without this issue
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