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best motion ?

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best motion ?

Postby alkaizer » 14 Jun 2018, 14:12

hello

I have pioneer kuro and Samsung plasma the latest one released before retirement.

last month I was in my friend house who plays playstation 4 in a pc monitor. I immediately noticed a significant difference in motion.

this kind of motion can be had if I enable "motion smooth" in my plasmas but it will create bad effects.

why the pc monitor lot better in motion than standard tv??

I also heard of 65 inch pc monitor which will be released soon. would it have a superior motion for playstation, animes, football than standard plasma/oled/lcd?? and why??
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Re: best motion ?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 19 Jun 2018, 21:51

What model monitor was your friend playing?

Blur reduction LCDs can have less motion blur than old plasma displays (yes, even the Kuro). See Motion Blur Reduction FAQ.
That's why a BenQ XL2720Z with a properly adjusted strobe-backlight phase (via http://www.blurbusters.com/strobe-utility ...) can actually have less motion blur than a plasma display -- and be as sharp as a CRT with a Playstation 4 or XBox 1.

As for the 65 inch BFGD and FreeSync compatible displays, the answer is not easy to answer. Not necessarily, different attributes will be better than others. You will get some things better and other things worse. As for animes and football, probably not. As for game motion, probably yes. Many plasma displays are not as good as modern desktop gaming monitors nowadays. Color quality is not as good as plasma though. LCD blacks are still crap unless you buy the 384-zone local dimmed Acer X27. But many new gaming LCDs can beat plasma in video game motion quality now.

Sure, the plasma old-timer people of the great AVSFORUM website (...I used to be the moderator of the AVSFORUM Home Theater Computers Forums there...), some will tell you that LCD doesn't beat plasma, but that was years ago -- this is 2018. The best LCD's have less than 1/10th the motion blur of a Kuro now, if you buy the world's best strobe backlight models. Certain LCD finally became CRT clarity a few years ago (Even though Kuro blacks are still much better than them) -- and what you saw at your friends was probably not one of these better LCDs at all.

If you want the "Kuro" of gaming monitors, some possible high end monitors to consider is ASUS ROG SWIFT PG27UQ and ACER Predator X35. They have 384 zone local dimming in a desktop monitor and have ultra low lag too, plus HDR, to boot. They produce better blacks and colors than the Kuro. But you're paying $2000 for a desktop monitor. It won't have a Blur Reduction mode, but in all other attributes, it can practically blow away the Kuro when it comes to PC gaming.

If you're looking for a bigger display, and if motion clarity of gaming is most important to you, then you could also look for a 60Hz strobed LCD at RTINGS.com if motion clarity is most important to you.

Right now, there is no good all-in-one display that is perfect for everything. That's the toughie for any Kuro owner, as the Kuro is an amazing plasma. A 2017 LG OLED will beat it in most categories, however -- Jorim has one. And it even supports 120Hz at 1080p for PC gaming.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: best motion ?

Postby StuckinPlasma » 13 May 2019, 15:20

First of all I am so glad I found your website and the amazing information you are sharing. Thank you!!

I thought I was going nuts being unable to get with the program on any new televisions, as they all give me headaches and motion sickness. 2018 LG 4K OLED being the latest one I tried. Ugh. So, I am still stuck with my old Kuro due to the motion.

I have not been able to play fast motion games since the days of CRT also due to motion sickness. And I miss being able to watch the beauty of 4K HDR movies. I gather that there is no one screen yet that will handle both 4K television and optimal gaming, so I am okay with having two separate setups if it avoids motion sickness.

1. Chief Blurbuster - What do you use for watching television that does not cause you motion sickness?

2. I read that LG OLED was planning 120Hz BFI but ran into some issues. Not sure whether that will be good enough though. Is there anything better out there currently?

3. What is currently the best way of watching 4K television with the least amount of motion blur?

4. Would an XBox One X with the ASUS TUF VG32VQ be the best way to play fast moving games without nausea?

Thank you!
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Re: best motion ?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 15 May 2019, 12:11

1. I'm holding out until the 120Hz+BFI option is back in OLEDs.
2. Yes, heard. There might be a firmware upgrade that restores it later, but I'm not sure.
3. Look up http://www.rtings.com -- they actually measure and photograph motion blur for their TVs.
4. The VG32VQ strobed FreeSync would work with XB1-x but the problem is that strobed VRR works best at high Hz ranges. For example, minimum Hz of strobing should be high enough. A perfect strobe range for strobed VRR might be "75Hz-165Hz". And most XBox games only run at <60fps. XB1 games run at too low framerates to be ergonomic with strobed VRR

Long term (towards 2030s), Blur Busters is a strong believer in Frame Rate Amplification Technologies to eliminate motion blur strobelessly. Eventually we can get the CRT clarity without the flicker. But you can eliminate 75% of LCD motion blur stroblessly today (240fps versus 60fps) simply with a 240Hz monitor. I'm a total huge fan of strobeless blur reduction. Real life doesn't flicker. Strobing/phosphor is a humankind bandaid. Real life is analog motion and no frame rate. The only way for a display to mimic analog motion is to have ultrahigh framerates at ultrahigh Hz. The higher the Hz a display the closer to real-life motion (in fluidity, blur, etc) the display can do. Done properly, this can reduce motion sickness quite a bit for many.

A suggestion is to go PC instead of XBox, and really raise the framerates as high as possible. We don't have 1000Hz yet, but we do have 240Hz today, which is already quite a bit of strobeless blur reduction -- 1/8th the blur of 30fps LCD and 1/4th the blur of 60fps LCD. And while getting 240Hz, get variable refresh rate to eliminate stutters.

How about eliminating motion blur strobelessly? Considered a 240Hz monitor + powerful GPU? Have you considered trying Samsung NU8000 series (or similar) low-lag interpolated game mode? Interpolation is not perfect and may still product motion sickness, but if your headaches is caused by motion blur, then it may improve things for you. Although it will only reduce 30ps motion blur by 75% and 60fps motion blur by 50% (from the "double-framerate-is-half-blur" rule).

Another left field surprise suggestion: Today, the Oculus Rift VR headset is an amazing option. The original Oculus Rift has a CRT-clarity OLED with zero stutter. As long as you stick to those "Comfortable"-Rated games (e.g. standing on a beach) rather than "Extreme"-Rated games (e.g. roller coaster), you will not barf in virtual reality. It's motion clarity nirvana and much more comfortable than LCD strobing, thanks to the utter impeccable framepacing that many VR games are doing. That said, the new rift uses a lower strobed Hz of 80Hz and may cause more eyestrain.

Remember, strobed eye comfort contains a lot of variables including:
* Global flash versus rolling scan
* Multi image artifacts (strobe crosstalk, or low frame rate)
* Getting framerate = Hz matching to avoid the jitters/microstuttering.
* Using VSYNC ON is more eye-friendly than VSYNC OFF (this parrot of esports is GOOD for winning but BAD for eyes)
* Color quality of strobed images (poor quality can create eyestrain)
* Refresh rate (the higher the Hz, the better....but harder to get framerate=Hz)

A well-optimized strobed system that doesn't sear the eyes, require thought in tuning your game.

But sometimes a lot easier is simply 240Hz GSYNC...and reduce motion blur strobelessly. It will go down to roughly 4ms MPRT (not quite the 1ms MPRT that strobing can achieve) but way better than 16.7ms MPRT of 60fps and 33ms MPRT of 120fps. (MPRT numbers being MPRT(100%) or full persistence).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: best motion ?

Postby StuckinPlasma » 15 May 2019, 15:26

Thank you for the detailed reply Chief Blur Buster. That is much appreciated!

I think I will dip my toes back in with a 240Hz like XG248Q for gaming and see how long before I have to grab a bucket. :)

And for television watching I will stay 4K HDR deprived a little while longer, and hang on to the Kuro. It really is insane that in all these years (decades?) we are still trying to catch up to old tech in some aspects. It reminds me a bit of the industry and debate around analog music playback versus shite mp3 (most people are not sensitive to this either) and poorly implemented DACs and audio filters. I guess how are brains are wired is make-or -break when it comes to A/D and D/A conversions.
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