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BenQ Xl2540 @144hz w/Stobe VS Dell S2716DG @144hz W/ G-Sync

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.

BenQ Xl2540 @144hz w/Stobe VS Dell S2716DG @144hz W/ G-Sync

Postby Emorejets » 10 Aug 2018, 04:27

Hello!

I'm a streamer who plays Overwatch at a high level and I was wondering what was better. I have been using my Benq Xl2540 @ 182hz with the "Blue Buster Strobe App." But due to inadequate performance I have been forced to drop down to 144hz, in order to keep a consistent frame-rate. I tend to use my Dell S2716DG as something to read chat and keep an eye on the stream.

My question is this. Whats better? The Xl2540 @144hz + The Blue Buster App OR, the Dell S2716DG @144hz w/ G-sync

Thank you for any of your any suggestions in advance!
Cheers!
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Re: BenQ Xl2540 @144hz w/Stobe VS Dell S2716DG @144hz W/ G-S

Postby RealNC » 10 Aug 2018, 04:58

G-Sync with dual monitors can cause issues (stutter and/or input lag.) Most streamers with dual monitor setups therefore usually avoid g-sync.

If it works without issues for you, then g-sync is going to give you much less stutter in case the game drops below 141FPS (when using g-sync on a 144Hz monitor, it's best to set frame limiter of OW to 141FPS.) But OW is probably an easy enough game to keep a rock-solid 144FPS in it.

(I assume you play OW with vsync OFF here though. If you play with vsync ON, then g-sync is going to give you a large input lag reduction, almost as low as vsync OFF, which can be preferable in competitive shooters like OW.)

Anyway, the 240Hz monitors have more input lag if you run them at less than 240Hz. In other words, if you compare the BenQ and the Dell both at 144Hz, the Dell has less input lag. The 240Hz monitors really are best when you run them at 240Hz.

Does the Dell support blur reduction at 144Hz? (Meaning ULMB.) If yes, you might try that. To allow ULMB to be toggled ON in the monitor's OSD, you need to disable G-Sync in the nvidia control panel. But I suspect the Dell will only ULMB at 120Hz though, so... Yeah. I don't know. Up to you, I guess :P
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Re: BenQ Xl2540 @144hz w/Stobe VS Dell S2716DG @144hz W/ G-S

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 11 Aug 2018, 12:14

RealNC, additional info on the XL2540 for users unfamiliar with the BenQ/Zowies:

OP appears to be using Blur Reduction already (Strobe Utility = blur reduction enabled). The XL2540 apparently has one of the better looking blur reduction after advanced vertical total tweaks when using a lower Hz on a 240Hz monitor. For example, a carefully-calibrated 144Hz blur reduction on a 240Hz benq, with the large-vertical-total trick, can end up having have less strobe crosstalk than the Dell S2716DG ULMB. Strobe Utility has the ability to adjust input lag of strobing too, http://www.blurbusters.com/strobe-utility

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This is something you cannot customize with ULMB, that's why Strobe Utility can be used to decide what part of the screen you want to have the lowest input lag during strobe mode.

Some eSports players adjust the "crosstalk bar" zone around a little bit until the lag of the preferred location on the screen is lowest (e.g. moving crosstalk bar about 3/4th the way down, so that crosshairs is clear AND lower lag). That results in less input lag than ULMB, guaranteed -- since the crosstalk zone of ULMB is generally non-adjustable.

Therefore, BenQ Zowie monitors are the best for strobed eSports; that's important for competitive players who want strobing AND low lag.

Now.... The S2716DG only supports ULMB at 120Hz as far as I know. So if you like blur reduction, then you're going to have to drop the refresh rate a little bit.

The XL2540 running large vertical totals at 144Hz (e.g. 240Hz Pixel Clock while having a 144Hz Vertical Refresh Rate), will probably have even less strobe crosstalk when calibrated with Blur Busters Strobe Utility.

Since I presume Version 2.0.9 of Strobe Utility is working beautifully at 182Hz with your XL2540 -- the same Appendix A trick at http://www.blurbusters.com/crosstalk (scroll halfway) -- can be used to create a 144Hz blur reduction mode with reduced strobe crosstalk. So it may be best to try out existing monitor.

Also -- generally, all ULMB-capable GSYNC monitors that only go up to 144Hz-165Hz, only supports ULMB at 120Hz or less. You need a 240Hz GSYNC monitor to gain access to 144Hz ULMB. NVIDIA intentionally locks higher Hz (since that is amplified strobe crosstalk during blur reduction, due to lack of time for LCD pixel transitions to complete between refresh cycles), while BenQ/Zowie keeps it unlocked, letting the end user decide to adjust on the crosstalk-versus-quality tradeoff, by choosing to lower Hz or not.

One seems to have several options:
1 -- Use the XL2540 flexibility to choose a different Hz blur reduction, trying out 144Hz to reduce strobe crosstalk while smoothing things out
2 -- Switch to another monitor, such as S2716DG and give it a try (Risk of improvement/no improvement). Play can be smoother on a GSYNC monitor due to GSYNC's ability to destutter varying frame rates. GSYNC can be amazingly smooth but can be very motionblurry if you are very used to blur reduction.
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Re: BenQ Xl2540 @144hz w/Stobe VS Dell S2716DG @144hz W/ G-S

Postby RealNC » 11 Aug 2018, 12:43

I thought all 240Hz monitors have unreasonably large input lag when not running at 240Hz...
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Re: BenQ Xl2540 @144hz w/Stobe VS Dell S2716DG @144hz W/ G-S

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 14 Aug 2018, 19:48

RealNC wrote:I thought all 240Hz monitors have unreasonably large input lag when not running at 240Hz...

Should be irrelevant with Large Vertical Totals. The scan velocity is back in sync if you're using 240Hz dotclock anyway at 144Hz, and the lag graident (top/center/bottom) is now symmetric for cable scanout versus panel scanout.

The thing to remember is that 240Hz panels currently are fast-scanout only (scans in 1/240sec) so buffering only occurs if graphics card is outputting at a lower scanrate than the panel's scanrate (scanlines per second). So a slowscanning 60Hz signal being converted to fast-scan 1/240sec scanout, requires buffering. But if you're using Large Vertical Totals (via ToastyX CRU) and going full wirespeed Pixel Click (240hz dotclock at 144Hz) this asymmetry doesn't occur. So cable scanout and panel scanout can be in sync if the cable's dotclock is equivalent to 240Hz's.

For strobe crosstalk minimization, you want to use maximum possible dotclock at a lower Hz, and that's often the 240Hz-league dotclock (or "Pixel Clock" in some CRU lingo)

In parlance (for people more familiar with "fixed-frequency CRTs") -- one can view view current 240Hz as "fixed horizontal scanrate" (number of pixel rows refreshed per second) panels locked to their 240Hz scanrate. Even though refresh-rate multisync, the monitor motherboard is doing internal scan conversion (aka buffering) -- so any lower Hz requiring conversion (either via monitor's internal buffering, OR via graphics card Large Vertical Total tricks) to speed the scanrate to match the panel's fixed scanrate.

While fixed horizontal scanrate, the BenQ 240Hz panels permit variable sized blanking intervals and can accept large VBIs, as a method of doing computer-side high scanrate, to prevent the monitor from internally scanconverting a slowscan signal for display on a fixed-scanrate panel.

Often it's a TCON limitation (fixed scanrate), but it certainly simplifies factory overdrive tuning.

Many 1080p 144Hz panels are variable scanrate, particularly the XL2411, XL2420, XL2720, XL2730 series.

If you're running lower Hz on a 240hz Benq -- then one should know 144Hz+Large VT's can actually be lower input lag than native 144Hz (at default or reduced blanking) on the XL2540/XL2546 since it prevents the need for buffering caused by monitor's internal scanrate conversion logic.

Theoretically, this could allow a low-lag 60Hz on an XL2540/XL2546 -- if the monitor is able to support a humongus >VT4320 (signal being more than 75% VBI!) but no consoles supports Large Vertical total tricks (HDMI Quick Frame Transport) at this time.
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Re: BenQ Xl2540 @144hz w/Stobe VS Dell S2716DG @144hz W/ G-S

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 14 Aug 2018, 20:01

To the OP:

1. Try XL2540 144Hz + Large Vertical Total = lower lag than native XL2540 144Hz

The Large VT's eliminates the lag penalty using of a Hz lower than 240Hz on the XL2540/XL2546.

Use the same Pixel Clock you had at 182Hz+LargeVT or at original 240Hz, use the Appendix A trick at www.blurbusters.com/crosstalk to achieve the lower-lag 144Hz mode for 240Hz BenQs.
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