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After few months on 240hz

Adjusting BENQ Blur Reduction and DyAc (Dynamic Acceleration) including Blur Busters Strobe Utility. Supports most BenQ/Zowie Z-Series monitors (XL2411, XL2420, XL2720, XL2735, XL2540, XL2546)

After few months on 240hz

Postby MagneticDev » 05 Jan 2019, 06:00

Hi guys,
Honestly, what do you think about 240hz monitor?
I really want to share my own experience about the Benq xl2546 vs the xl2411z.
First, I played Quake Live at high level and I’m very obsessed about input lag and visibility; now I switched to Overwatch and I want to share my feelings about those two monitors.
The first time I used the 2546, I was like “WAOW” but after few weeks, my eyes became very tired and it was so difficult to track with my eyes. I also feel like there is more input lag on the 2546 but I was thinking ‘it’s probably in my head’. After that, I’ve noticed when I’m in a team fight in Overwatch, it was super confusing, like all the colors mix together…
And then I plug my xl2411z back: the screen feels way way more reactive, the image is more sharp, the colors are not as good as the 2546, but I can track enemy again and it’s less confusing.
So, I become super old or this 240hz monitor is overrated?

And Yes chief, I already tried to change hz, make custom resolution BUT when I take a 240hz monitor, it's to play at 240hz.

This is my config :
7700k + 1080ti, 16go ram 3200mhz
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Re: After few months on 240hz

Postby BlurBoss » 05 Jan 2019, 08:12

I have been using BenQ XL2546 for 1 week now, and I do notice, that my eyes get very tired very quickly. I didn't notice that on XL2540 that I had for 2 weeks, and neither did I notice that on Asus PG258Q which I had for 1 week (also it has worse picture quality, in my opinion, BenQ is more colorful).
When switch BenQ XL2546 to 144Hz with DyAc the image does look sharper than on 240Hz.

I didn't get any WOW effect when started using BenQ XL2546 even after I have been playing for 6 months on 60Hz 15 inch laptop screen.

I play Rainbow Six Siege on:
i9-9900K, 3200 MHz CL14 RAM, RTX 2080 Ti.

Edit: I've just used Strobe Utility and set my settings (although I don't remember the original values, and not sure how to find them out or reset) to 10-35 and it feels so much better now.
Last edited by BlurBoss on 06 Jan 2019, 02:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: After few months on 240hz

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 05 Jan 2019, 20:53

BlurBoss wrote:When switch BenQ XL2546 to 144Hz with DyAc the image does look sharper than on 240Hz.

That's because blur reduction (e.g. ULMB, DyAc features) often looks better with framerate = stroberate, though lower Hz strobing is more laggy than high Hz strobing. Lowering your Hz, probably pulled framerates closer to refreshrates.

There's an unfortunate tradeoff between refresh rate and strobe crosstalk, and that's why some people like to use the 182Hz custom resolution trick, it's found in the Advanced Strobe Crosstalk FAQ.

NVIDIA limits ULMB to 144Hz arbitrarily for image-quality reasons, while BenQ/Zowie unlocks DyAc and lets user decide on quality-vs-crosstalk tradeoff.

In addition, focus on controlling the harsh microstuttering
DyAc looks most beautiful with VSYNC ON motion to bypass the strobe-amplified-microstuttering problem, and that's why some of use use the low-latency VSYNC ON tricks. Strobing is often terrible with unsynchronized framerates because of the amplified-microstutter-visibility effect caused by lack of motion blur making it easier to see microstuttering. Framerate sync (e.g. VSYNC ON) often adds lag so the low-lag sync tricks like RTSS often comes into play to help achieve sync with lower lag than traditional VSYNC ON. In-game framerate caps aren't accurate enough for eliminating blur-reduction-amplified microstuttering.

Also check HOWTO: Properly Using ULMB Beautifully or Competitively ... including the mouse optimization tweaks near the end.

Framerate sync and mouse fixes helps brings TestUFO superfluid smoothness into games, because many gamers aren't getting TestUFO smoothness in their games, and that can make blur reduction less pleasant.

Blur reduction can be absolutely beautiful or absolutely ugly depending on how you use it.
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Re: After few months on 240hz

Postby Falkentyne » 06 Jan 2019, 17:54

Just to keep apples to apples here, folks:

1) Were you guys who had BOTH XL2540 and XL2546 using blur reduction (aka DyAc) on both monitors at the same refresh rates?

2) or were you guys trying to compare 144hz with blur reduction on to 240hz with blur reduction off?

3) or were you guys saying that the XL2540 with blur reduction OFF looks better than the XL2546 with blur reduction OFF?

4) Did any of you guys try opening the factory menu (hold buttons #3 and #4 for 5 seconds, while powering on the monitor, OR buttons #4 and #5 while powering on the monitor....then button #5 should open the factory menu--note i don't remember the key combination (i don't have these panels) but on the XL2720Z, the (useless) factory menu, with the only useful options being "timer reset" and "reset all", was buttons #3 and #4 for 5 seconds while powering on),

and changing the "OD Gain" setting to a lower value? I faintly recall some XL2540 users mentioning a value of something around 4F doing wonders for the "Inverse" to "positive" ghosting balance.

Because if you guys are saying that 240hz with blur reduction OFF looks better on the XL2540 than the XL2546, OR, if 240hz with blur reduction ON Looks better on the XL2540 vs XL2546, well i don't know about that. Try setting OD Gain to a value of between 30-5F (hexadecimal) and test.
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Re: After few months on 240hz

Postby gulul » 12 Jan 2019, 13:36

About the inputlag

I've cloned my 240hz monitor (xl2540) with my 144hz one (xl2430), both connected to my gtx1080 through displayport and those are the results:
https://imgur.com/a/nVmBYvb
240hz is indeed faster (video recorded at 1080p60fps). Even on CS is evident how the xl2540 is faster (https://imgur.com/a/BZat3qE). On the first image I am flicking from left to right and the crosshair is past the second dot on the xl2540, while it's still between the two dots on the xl2430. In the second image, after releasing m1, the muzzle flash stops first on the 240hz monitor.

That said, i feel like i still perform better on my 144hz monitor, and it stress my eyes a lot less.

EDIT: I forgot to say that i tested both monitors on 60hz and this time the xl2430 was faster. Actually the difference was higher than when both monitors were cloned using their maximum frequency (144 and 240).
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Re: After few months on 240hz

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 13 Jan 2019, 03:01

Try temporarily turning off DyAc and see how your performance changes.

DyAc is useful for eye-tracking situations but if you're staring only at the crosshairs, there are situations where it may not help as much -- see HOWTO: Using ULMB Beautifully Or Competitively
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
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Re: After few months on 240hz

Postby Q83Ia7ta » 13 Jan 2019, 06:39

gulul wrote:i tested both monitors on 60hz and this time the xl2430 was faster.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... rison_1426
Image
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Re: After few months on 240hz

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 14 Jan 2019, 02:45

XL2540 has blur reduction OFF by default, while XL2546 has blur reduction ON by default.

To make an XL2546 match XL2540 in input lag tests (by RTINGS), you have to turn DyAc OFF.

There are benefits to DyAc, if properly used, though it might be failing your specific use case.
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: After few months on 240hz

Postby Notty_PT » 14 Jan 2019, 05:48

MagneticDev wrote:Hi guys,
Honestly, what do you think about 240hz monitor?
I really want to share my own experience about the Benq xl2546 vs the xl2411z.
First, I played Quake Live at high level and I’m very obsessed about input lag and visibility; now I switched to Overwatch and I want to share my feelings about those two monitors.
The first time I used the 2546, I was like “WAOW” but after few weeks, my eyes became very tired and it was so difficult to track with my eyes. I also feel like there is more input lag on the 2546 but I was thinking ‘it’s probably in my head’. After that, I’ve noticed when I’m in a team fight in Overwatch, it was super confusing, like all the colors mix together…
And then I plug my xl2411z back: the screen feels way way more reactive, the image is more sharp, the colors are not as good as the 2546, but I can track enemy again and it’s less confusing.
So, I become super old or this 240hz monitor is overrated?

And Yes chief, I already tried to change hz, make custom resolution BUT when I take a 240hz monitor, it's to play at 240hz.

This is my config :
7700k + 1080ti, 16go ram 3200mhz


One question! Do you have a steady framerate on your games when at 240hz? I´m on my 4th 240hz monitor now; and I still use a 2nd 144hz display. One thing I noticed is that having a steady almost fixed framerate > 240hz. What I mean is that when I use my 144hz monitor with 141fps cap, I can mantain that framerate on almost any game without any problems. For 141fps, and excluding GPU bottlenecks (because you can tweak settings), you only need a relatively recent Intel CPU clocked even at 3,5ghz or so. An i7 4770 non k would do, an i5 8400 3,8ghz defo does it, Skylake i7 6700 non K or i7 7700 non k.

However, keeping steady 200-240fps is very hard for any CPU on most modern engines! Even with an overclocked 4,9ghz i7 8700k, I can´t sustain such framerate on a lot of new games. I noticed that when the framerate is steady I have less eye strain, I like the motion clarity more and of course, I aim and play better (wich you noticed aswell on 144hz), because my fps are steady and that influences the mouse behaviour a lot! Something a lot of gamers, from pros to non-pros, are not aware of. Sure if you are good you are good, but I assure you that aiming with a steady framerate is way superior, even if you have less FPS. For example:

- Black Ops 4 -> I can´t sustain steady 240fps, so it is jumping from 180 to 240; I can sustain 141fps easily, and I aim better this way.

So this is why I´m asking you this question because from my experience with 240hz, and altho I love its smoothness and low input lag, the inconsistent framerates don´t help a single bit for both my eyes and aim. Once we go 480hz or 1000hz one day, as Chief dreams about, it will still be hard for CPUs to keep up. I don´t think CPUs nowadays are ready yet for 240hz to be honest.

This is my opinion about 240hz:

Altho it objectively has better motion clarity (when not using VRR or Vsync on 144hz) and lower input lag (4ms persistence), no CPU is ready yet for it. No CPU can maintan steady locked 240fps, or even 200fps on every single game out there. And in modern games that´s a lost cause. It can sustain 240fps on older engines maybe, like Quake Live, Battlefield 3 or Black Ops 1, or Mobas (where you don´t even need such high framerate). But on Black Ops 4, Battlefield 4/1/5, WW2, Quake Champions, Pubg, Fortnite, etc, no way. It just can´t handle it, not even a 5ghz i9 9900k. We will have to wait maybe 2 more CPU gens, 7nm + 5,5ghz clocks + improved IPC, for such thing to happen. And this, in my opinion, breaks the benefits of 240hz, a lot! Specially for someone like me that loves to get a steady framerate. Imo, even in games where you don´t need good aim, steady framerate is always superior to a floaty one. Even with VRR, once you bounce more than 20fps/30fps difference (141 to 110 for example), you immediatly notice it and is not good.

This is something I would love Chief to talk about on a future article. I think a lot of people still ignore the advantages of having a steady fixed framerate in every game.

Q83Ia7ta wrote:
gulul wrote:i tested both monitors on 60hz and this time the xl2430 was faster.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... rison_1426
Image


This is ViewSonic XG2402 reviewd on Rtings aswell. Benq 240hz has 3,7ms input lag, Viewsonic 144hz 4,1ms. 0,4ms difference, so almost nothing. And this is why I´ve been saying that 240hz monitors need to be tweaked by companies, because I think 3,7ms is far from their lowest possible input lag. With that being said, ViewSonic XG2402 is the fastest 144hz monitor I ever tried (and rtings too). Even the well acclaimed Asus VG248Q, known for its very low input lag, is 5,1ms.

Image
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