Blur Busters Forums

I see that the strobe utility can be adjusted down to .5ms, even lower than 10% lightboost @ 1.4ms.

Does anyone have comparisons between .5ms and 1.4ms?

hi. i'm curious too, i think about upgrading from XL2411T to *11Z but i dont know it will be worth the cost, my *11T unit at 0% contrast dont have purple tint, and i managed to set pretty good colors in LightBoost mode.

..but my *11T have visible "scnalines" when in motion but only in LightBoost, but if *11Z dont have this i will maybe buy this monitor

The VG248QE, XL2411T and XL2420T all use the exact same panel.
So, its a lottery if you get scanlines or not (you may see scanlines in lightboost mode or in 144 hz mode (or very faintly in 120hz). Some samples have it rather bad, other samples you can't tell unless you look VERY close (which is good).

The 27" monitors (both the VG27H/HE and the Benq 2720Z, use different panels from each other (asus one is different from the benq) and neither panel has been reported with the scanlines problem(AFAIK). So the only way to be 100% sure is to get the 27". No idea if the 24" Z panels have the issue or not; could have been a bad manufacturing run or something....

ranejt wrote:I see that the strobe utility can be adjusted down to .5ms, even lower than 10% lightboost @ 1.4ms.

Does anyone have comparisons between .5ms and 1.4ms?

0.5 to 1.0 ms naturally look better than LB 10%, since you have full gamma, color and brightness (although the brightness will want to be at 100% anyway) controls, and doing the vertical 1350 or 1500 tweaks will increase brightness a bit more.

As far as clarity, you won't be able to tell a difference human perception wise, between 0.5ms (the lowest) and 1.0 ms. 1.0 ms is really the lowest you should go, since 0.5 is probably going to be too dark to be useful (although with the 1500 vertical tweak, it will help pull the "top band" crosstalk zone even farther to the very top edge of the screen, but I find 1.0 is best for reasonable brightness.

Falkentyne wrote:As far as clarity, you won't be able to tell a difference human perception wise, between 0.5ms (the lowest) and 1.0 ms.

Not true. It depends on a specific human's maximum eye tracking speed. A number of us (including myself and masterotaku) CAN just about see a minor motion blur difference of 0.5ms and 1.0ms, but only at motionspeeds faster than 2400pix/sec. (e.g. http://www.testufo.com/photo at motion speed setting "3000" and looking at the blurriness of window frames in Quebec photo when comparing 0.5ms and 1.0ms in Strobe Utility.). There's only a small window of motionspeeds where having 0.5ms persistence benefits; since motion speed 1920 pixels/sec is too slow to easily show difference 0.5ms versus 1.0ms and motion speed 3840 pixels/sec (1 screenwidth in 1/2 second) is too fast for most people's eyes to track on a 1080p monitor at desktop viewing distances. If you happen to play a specific videogame, during VSYNC ON where motionspeeds of 3000pix/sec are common, and you've got light-sensitive eyes, then there's a definite motion clarity difference between 0.5ms and 1.0ms. If your eyes cannot track faster than one screen-width per second (~1920 pixels/second), you will not see 0.5ms versus 1.0ms difference. If your eyes are able to track faster than that, this is where you begin to see the benefits of 0.5ms versus 1.0ms.

1ms difference = 1 pixel difference of motion blur for every 1000 pixels/second smooth motion.
So a 0.5ms difference at 3000 pixels/second translates to a 1.5 pixel difference in the motion blur.
This is still human noticeable, albiet barely, enough to notice a bit of motion blur in small fine-point text that's scrolling at 3000 pixels/second, for humans that can still track motion that fast. Or the UFO at www.testufo.com and changing motion speed faster, observing the triple eyes of the alien UFO; the alien eyes are crisp versus blurry at 0.5ms versus 1.0ms.

It is certainly subtle; there is only a 1 pixel to 1.5 pixel motion blur difference between 0.5ms persistence and 1.0ms persistence during 3000 pixels/second fast motion. This is roughly equivalent to the speed of a fast-flick 180 degree, or a very rapid full-screen full-framerate pan, at approximately 1 screenwidth panned in 2/3rds of a second. That said, 0.5ms and 1.0ms difference is mainly noticeable during VSYNC ON (stutter-free) situations, rather than VSYNC OFF (lower lag, but more microstuttery; too difficult to tell apart 0.5ms and 1.0ms).

However, yes, 1.0ms is the lowest "practical" persistence, on a brightness versus motion clarity basis, for most everyday FPS gaming, especially with VSYNC OFF which is essential for competition (microstutters from both VSYNC OFF and mouse fluidity limitations, will usually tend to obscure ability to see 0.5ms versus 1.0ms). However, people who are brightness sensitive and still need to go even dimmer (e.g. in a totally dark room), might as well reduce persistence to 0.5ms if the brightness is perfect for them. But usually, you'll want 1.0ms or 1.5ms or thereabouts.

Example; see below, posted in another thread.

masterotaku wrote:At high frequencies, I use 003 (0.5ms), and 1920px/s is perfectly crisp, but there's a bit of blur at 2400px/s. This monitor is amazing at this.

(I confirm this; My eyes concur too).

ranejt wrote:I see that the strobe utility can be adjusted down to .5ms, even lower than 10% lightboost @ 1.4ms.
Does anyone have comparisons between .5ms and 1.4ms?

Depends on the type of games you play, but if you are someone who easily see the difference between LightBoost 10% versus 100% (not everyone can -- some people say it's very subtle, other people swear by it -- thread of LightBoost 10% users)

See this diagram:



These are approximations, and for motion speed of 960 pixels/second.

However, at faster motion speeds, 3000 pixels/second, the motion blur difference multiplies by about 3.
- .5ms (BENQ 0.5ms) at 3000 pixels/second starts to have almost as much motion blur as 2ms persistence at 960pix/sec
- 1.4ms (LightBoost 10%) at 3000 pixels/second has about the same motion blur as 4ms persistence at 960pix/sec

That said, the .5ms setting is very dark, about 1/3 brightness of LightBoost=10% in exchange for 1/3 the motion blur.
Most people will tend to use the higher persistence settings to get more brightness.

very sorry for off-topic

Falkentyne wrote: The 27" monitors (both the VG27H/HE and the Benq 2720Z, use different panels from each other (asus one is different from the benq) and neither panel has been reported with the scanlines problem(AFAIK). So the only way to be 100% sure is to get the 27". No idea if the 24" Z panels have the issue or not; could have been a bad manufacturing run or something....

is there a workaround or maybe some settings to adjust, to reduce scnalines to some degree ??

27" i think is too big, playing in 3D vision will be not nice due to that checkerboard pattern(something like not Full HD per eye) bigger the screen the stronger visible will be, unless you will be siting like 1m away.

right now i'm playing at 40cm away and i see that checkerboard pattern on 24" screen, sometimes it is very annoying in games like Diablo3 or Starcraft2

TkBaha85 wrote:27" i think is too big, playing in 3D vision will be not nice due to that checkerboard pattern(something like not Full HD per eye) bigger the screen the stronger visible will be, unless you will be siting like 1m away.

Monitor dependant.
This was a problem with the VG278HE (checkerboard issue), not VG278H (almost checkerboard-free).
The much fainter checkerboard pattern was never a problem with my 27" VG278H (non-E)
(Not sure about the XL2720Z, as I haven't tested 3D Vision on it)

For readers confused about the checkerboard artifact, see www.testufo.com/inversion and read the Lagom/Techmind links at top.

Not sure if the OP wants to play 3D, or just use the strobe capability for 2D motion clarity.

TkBaha85 wrote: ..but my *11T have visible "scanlines" when in motion but only in LightBoost, but if *11Z dont have this i will maybe buy this monitor

Sorry to disappoint you, but for example my XL2411Z has noticeable scanlines at the bottom left when motion blur reduction is enabled at 95Hz and above. The higher the refresh rate, the more noticeable they are. It's unit dependant, I think, so you may be lucky, or maybe not. In my case, they don't bother me. I find them kinda cute, in fact .

ranejt wrote:I see that the strobe utility can be adjusted down to .5ms, even lower than 10% lightboost @ 1.4ms.

It can go even lower than 0.5ms, at least in the service menu. 0.167ms is the shortest strobe available. It's even darker than 0.5ms, but motion is clearer at very fast movements. As Chief says, I easily see the difference between 0.5ms and 1ms (thanks for mentioning me, Chief, I feel very proud ), but actually I can go even further and notice the difference between 0.167ms and 0.5ms.

The important thing is: how is your low brightness tolerance? The strobe lenght in these monitors is independent from the frequency. That means that brightness is halved at 60Hz when compared with 120Hz at the same settings.
At high refresh rates, I'm fine with 0.5ms (I only go lower for testing purposes), but at 60 or 75 Hz, I prefer it between 1ms and 1.5ms.

masterotaku wrote:As Chief says, I easily see the difference between 0.5ms and 1ms (thanks for mentioning me, Chief, I feel very proud ), but actually I can go even further and notice the difference between 0.167ms and 0.5ms.

You're more sensitive than I am, or have more accurate eye-tracking abilities than I have!
I have to struggle below 0.5ms to see these differences.

That said, I can tell apart 0.5ms and 1.0ms at http://www.testufo.com/photo#pps=3000 by watching the window frames (blurrier vs sharper windows on buildings) at 3000 pixels/second. But not everybody's eye-tracking speed can go fast. LightBoost 10% is positively blurry in comparision at these ultrafast motion speeds.

You're right -- it's the brightness that becomes a problem when going to very low-persistence settings. I usually keep the setting at 1.0ms because that's bright enough for daytime use for me, or 3.0ms+ when the sun is shining into the room. At total darkness, I sometimes use the 0.5ms setting, but usually keep it at 1.0ms anyway.