Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
1000WATT
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Post by 1000WATT » 12 Jan 2020, 08:41

poppe wrote:
11 Jan 2020, 15:39
jorimt wrote:
11 Jan 2020, 14:50
You didn't say whether you had a VRR setup, but with G-SYNC, "Ultra" is basically an automatic FPS limiter + MPRF "1."

So, say you limit your FPS to 141 @144Hz with Nvidia's new Max Frame Rate option, and then enabled "Ultra" LLM as well; the ~138 auto limit will take effect instead of your set 141 FPS limit, which is why I recommend setting LLM to "On" when using it in combo with G-SYNC and an in-game or external FPS limiter.

For non-G-SYNC though, an external or in-game limiter + "Ultra" should be fine, as it doesn't have the auto-capping behavior when used with fixed refresh rates.
I do use G-SYNC @ 240 Hz

Reason I'm so confused about latency mode is because of Battlenonsense testing:

https://i.imgur.com/u3ysznI.png
https://i.imgur.com/5HSeMvs.png

Ultra latency mode gives higher input lag even though it "autocaps" FPS. But when GPU load is high then Ultra is better..
So I thought setting Ultra globally for casual games with an FPS cap for DX12 games (since the autocap don't work there) and then for serious games like CS:GO I'll just use LLM "On" with ingame FPS limiter.
in the picture 1 comparison of the in-game limiter with LLM "Ultra". for overwatch, an in-game limiter is better than rtss and nvidia limiter.

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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Post by 1000WATT » 12 Jan 2020, 09:13

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync ... mment-9288
jorimt
Battle(non)sense just did a video on this:

https://youtu.be/W66pTe8YM2s

It appears Nvidia’s new limiter is effectively a match to the RTSS limiter in both input lag and frametime performance. That said, good in-game limiters still have lower input lag.


He compared the battlefield in-game limiter to the nvidia limiter. frame time when using rtss is still more stable.

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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Post by jorimt » 12 Jan 2020, 10:07

janos666 wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 00:02
I don't understand why nVidia didn't try to force this new setting over the game's own numbers, at least with Ultra and popular game engines.
As far as I'm aware on that, if a game engine doesn't allow external override of the pre-rendered frames queue (yes, I believe Frostbite being one of them), Nvidia quite literally can't at the driver-level, even if they wanted to. It's the reason NULL doesn't currently work with DX12 or Vulkan, both of which manage that aspect on their own.
janos666 wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 00:02
And I guess the 'V-Sync lag' (in case of uncapped fps with G-Sync+V-Sync) would still be higher with Ultra (if that could even work since it's not regular V-Sync)
G-SYNC + V-SYNC + sustained FPS above the refresh rate is virtually the same as standalone V-SYNC actually. The only difference between the two in this scenario, is that whenever the framerate drops below the refresh rate, the former immediately begins syncing the display to the GPU, whereas the latter doesn't.
janos666 wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 00:02
I vaguely theorized something like Ultra might tries to "starve" the GPU a little bit (sacrificing some fps) to avoid the regular ~100% utilization scenario.
Those like RealNC have suggested something similar...

Theoretically, it's possible using an external FPS limiter like RTSS; you would set a desired FPS limit offset (say, -3), and then the limiter would monitor the frametime of each frame, and then dynamically limit the FPS slightly below it (e.g. if the average fluctuating FPS is currently 113, the limiter would cap to 110, etc), preventing max GPU usage, and thus reducing the pre-rendered frames queue more than LLM would on it's own. Whether this is practically possible is another question entirely though.

--------
1000WATT wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 09:13
He compared the battlefield in-game limiter to the nvidia limiter. frame time when using rtss is still more stable.
Battle(non)sense claims otherwise. Watch at the 4:33 mark here:
https://youtu.be/W66pTe8YM2s?t=273

I quote:
Then you can simply use the new framerate limiter feature inside the Nvidia Control Panel to not only get the same input delay as you would get with RTSS, but also enjoy the same perfectly stable frametimes, and so consistent input delay.
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

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1000WATT
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Post by 1000WATT » 12 Jan 2020, 12:59

jorimt wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 10:07
1000WATT wrote:
12 Jan 2020, 09:13
He compared the battlefield in-game limiter to the nvidia limiter. frame time when using rtss is still more stable.
Battle(non)sense claims otherwise. Watch at the 4:33 mark here:
https://youtu.be/W66pTe8YM2s?t=273

I quote:
Then you can simply use the new framerate limiter feature inside the Nvidia Control Panel to not only get the same input delay as you would get with RTSS, but also enjoy the same perfectly stable frametimes, and so consistent input delay.
Yes, he said so, but in the video itself I did not find a place where he tested it. Only https://imgur.com/cDlcznY

I checked on my own several times. And now I can confidently say that the difference is so insignificant that it seems to me that I'm just making an elephant out of a fly. :lol:
https://imgur.com/s8y6I79

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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Post by RealNC » 12 Jan 2020, 15:39

The new nvidia limiter is a big buggy right now. I've seen a couple people have the issue where after a reboot, the limiter becomes unable to cap to the configured target anymore. Instead, it varies between -10 and -8 compared to your target.

So use carefully right now.
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