ELMB-Sync experiences?

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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axaro1
Posts: 336
Joined: 23 Apr 2020, 12:00

Re: ELMB-Sync experiences?

Post by axaro1 » 30 Sep 2020, 02:38

chirality wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 00:49
So if I have the Asus VG259QM 280Hz monitor and want to use ELMB-Sync, what would be the best setting/parameters for:

1) 200-280 fps range
2) 100-199 fps range
3) 60-99 fps range

Do some/all of those ranges benefit from using VRR ELMB vs a fixed capped framerate ELMB? I've only just gotten this monitor today so I apologize for being new to this technology and appreciate any guidance provided.
First of all you cannot change overdrive, so you are using OD80 in the entire refresh rate if you are strobing.
If you use Adaptive Sync (VRR) with ELMB-Sync, at least on the VG259QM, there is absolutely no crosstalk, like literally top to bottom not a single double image, however every single ufo is smeared, kind of like standard ghosting but slightly better.
Asus definitely fucked up the timings with ELMB-Sync + VRR.

What I recommend on this monitor is standard ELMB-SYNC without VRR, this provides a very clear image at both 240 and 280hz with a very low amount of crosstalk, the backlight is perfectly timed even at the highest refresh rate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1uvrRqvJHs I took a 480fps video to show it)
This monitor can strobe at 120, 144, 240, 280 (and I'm not sure about it but I think 60/85hz aswell) but it is pointless to strobe at 120/144 because there is a noticeable increase in overshoot due to the overdrive being stuck at OD80, which is and overdrive that I'd never use if my refresh rate is lower than 240hz.

If you want to strobe I highly recommend switching Adaptive Sync OFF, uncapping the game engine and limiting the fps with RTSS (I find the exact refresh rate for the monitor, for example 279.857 and I type this refresh rate into RTSS that provides precise frametimes with 1 microsecond precision, vsync seems redundant from my testings).
You can reach very high brightness with strobing on the VG259QM, much higher than other 240hz strobe alternatives and you can easily tweak dark levels with Shadow Boost if you want to keep a low brightness due to strobing fatigue while improving dark scenes, at the same time shadow boost hides minor color inversion artifacts since OD80 is slightly aggressive even at 240hz.

If you have more questions feel free to visit the VG259QM thread on [Board index<The Main Lobby<General — Displays, Graphics & More], we discuss a lot of topics about this monitor + 240hz 10bit tweak, hidden overdrive, ...

Tell me if you want to see a crosstalk test at 240 or 280hz I can make one and upload it on youtube.
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

chirality
Posts: 2
Joined: 29 Sep 2020, 00:38

Re: ELMB-Sync experiences?

Post by chirality » 30 Sep 2020, 16:24

axaro1 wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 02:38
chirality wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 00:49
So if I have the Asus VG259QM 280Hz monitor and want to use ELMB-Sync, what would be the best setting/parameters for:

1) 200-280 fps range
2) 100-199 fps range
3) 60-99 fps range

Do some/all of those ranges benefit from using VRR ELMB vs a fixed capped framerate ELMB? I've only just gotten this monitor today so I apologize for being new to this technology and appreciate any guidance provided.
First of all you cannot change overdrive, so you are using OD80 in the entire refresh rate if you are strobing.
If you use Adaptive Sync (VRR) with ELMB-Sync, at least on the VG259QM, there is absolutely no crosstalk, like literally top to bottom not a single double image, however every single ufo is smeared, kind of like standard ghosting but slightly better.
Asus definitely fucked up the timings with ELMB-Sync + VRR.

What I recommend on this monitor is standard ELMB-SYNC without VRR, this provides a very clear image at both 240 and 280hz with a very low amount of crosstalk, the backlight is perfectly timed even at the highest refresh rate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1uvrRqvJHs I took a 480fps video to show it)
This monitor can strobe at 120, 144, 240, 280 (and I'm not sure about it but I think 60/85hz aswell) but it is pointless to strobe at 120/144 because there is a noticeable increase in overshoot due to the overdrive being stuck at OD80, which is and overdrive that I'd never use if my refresh rate is lower than 240hz.

If you want to strobe I highly recommend switching Adaptive Sync OFF, uncapping the game engine and limiting the fps with RTSS (I find the exact refresh rate for the monitor, for example 279.857 and I type this refresh rate into RTSS that provides precise frametimes with 1 microsecond precision, vsync seems redundant from my testings).
You can reach very high brightness with strobing on the VG259QM, much higher than other 240hz strobe alternatives and you can easily tweak dark levels with Shadow Boost if you want to keep a low brightness due to strobing fatigue while improving dark scenes, at the same time shadow boost hides minor color inversion artifacts since OD80 is slightly aggressive even at 240hz.

If you have more questions feel free to visit the VG259QM thread on [Board index<The Main Lobby<General — Displays, Graphics & More], we discuss a lot of topics about this monitor + 240hz 10bit tweak, hidden overdrive, ...

Tell me if you want to see a crosstalk test at 240 or 280hz I can make one and upload it on youtube.
Ok so ELMB Sync is really only useful at 240+ FPS then right? So if I have a high demand game where I'm averaging 120-160 fps, 120 OD with ELMB Sync disabled is the best setting to use?

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axaro1
Posts: 336
Joined: 23 Apr 2020, 12:00

Re: ELMB-Sync experiences?

Post by axaro1 » 30 Sep 2020, 17:21

chirality wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 16:24
Ok so ELMB Sync is really only useful at 240+ FPS then right? So if I have a high demand game where I'm averaging 120-160 fps, 120 OD with ELMB Sync disabled is the best setting to use?
Just like every non VRR strobe mode at 240hz it's better to have 240+fps since strobing at 240hz with fps lower than 240 casuses double image (wether it's ELMB, ULMB, Dyac, ..., this apply to all strobing modes).
The same concept applies to 280hz strobing, you need 280+fps for the best experience.

The best overdrive for 120/160fps with Adaptive Sync ON, so 120/160hz is OD60.

Best overdrives for fixed refresh rate:
280hz: OD120/OD80 (OD120 for good motion clarity with low overshoot, OD80 if you are willing to trade overshoot with 0.7ms lower G2G average and better motion clarity)
240hz: OD120 (OD60 has absolutely no overshoot at this refresh rate, however OD120 provides a blur free experience with some minor overshoot, OD80 is way too strong)
200hz: OD60 (this is a no brainer, no overshoot and low ghosting)
144hz: OD40/OD60
100hz: OD40

You have great Overdrive control on this monitor with 7 different levels.

if your fps fluctuate between 200 and 280 with Adaptive Sync ON then OD120 is the most consistent in terms of motion clarity in this range, 100 to 200 I'd say OD60.

Personally I like to keep uncapped fps and fixed refresh rate at 280hz OD80 for competitive games, I use OD80 ONLY with fixed refresh rate at 280hz because the amount of overshoot if the fps drops to 240/250 with VRR ON is way too high and I like motion clarity to be as consistent as possible.

If you want a tear free experience at 280hz capping at 275 with VRR ON then OD120 is perfect if you get 220-250fps spikes.
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

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speancer
Posts: 198
Joined: 03 May 2020, 04:26
Location: Poland

Re: ELMB-Sync experiences?

Post by speancer » 01 Oct 2020, 13:14

My graphics card does not support Adaptive-Sync (GTX 980Ti) so I can't say much about ELMB-Sync, but the ELMB itself enabled together with 280 Hz fixed refresh rate is actually the best strobing I've seen except of DyAc, it's very clear, no visible crosstalk in-game, but for me it's just too dark (although I think it's still the brightest that I've seen other than DyAc). That is why when it comes to strobing I'd always choose Zowie's DyAc if I had to, as it has no brightness impact whatsoever.
Tested displays: Zowie XL2546KASUS VG259QMASUS VG279QMAlienware AW2521HFLAOmen X 25fZowie XL2546Zowie XL2540KMSI MAG251RXPredator XB273XPredator XB271HU
Now testing: Gigabyte M27Q

tech
Posts: 6
Joined: 04 Dec 2020, 12:16

Re: ELMB-Sync experiences?

Post by tech » 10 Dec 2020, 13:13

How can I make 140fps at 280Hz look good? My initial assumption was that it would be clearer with VRR off, ELMB on, and RTSS capped at 140fps, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Do I need to look into software black frame insertion?

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AddictFPS
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Joined: 15 Jan 2020, 14:13

Re: ELMB-Sync experiences?

Post by AddictFPS » 11 Dec 2020, 04:31

ELMB-Sync is not based in single strobe, i not recomend it. Is very well explained in ApertureGrile.com review. The only way to see 140FPS correctly is sync with 140Hz with sample and hold or single strobe.

VRR without ELMB-Sync, cap frames 140, and play with motion blur without added input lag.

Or CRU (Custom Resolution Utility) and create 140Hz, ELMB On (not ELMB-Sync), if ELMB support this frequency of course, not all manufactures offer single strobing ranges, sometimes only especific frequencies can single strobe. This option add a bit of input lag, there are crosstalk, but remove to much motion blur.

https://www.aperturegrille.com/reviews/ ... MB-Pursuit
At 280 and 240 Hz, if you squint, you might be fooled into thinking you're seeing a single pulse, but the brighter outside primary pulses are actually pretty easy to spot. At 120 Hz, the Devil's Horns shape is clear, and given how long the pulse lasts, this shows too much horizontal blur to be useful. And check out the 60 Hz shot! The double strobe exactly matches the photodiode response! At these lower refresh rates, ELMB-Sync is worse than not strobing.

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