LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 30 Jun 2020, 19:01

AddictFPS wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 16:55
BenQ XL2746S fix crosstalk and brightness at 120Hz, but there are a bit of overshot, because BenQ not optimize overdrive based on frequency, is "stuck" at Off-Default-Premium.
Semantically, crosstalk AND overshoot is identical from a strobing context. If you see overshoot during strobing, by default, it's defacto, is strobe crosstalk. "Overshoot"/"ghosting" and "crosstalk" are semantically synonymous in the strobed context, since strobing is a chopped GtG curve, and crosstalk is when the GtG for the same refresh cycle overlaps two refresh cycles.

Since your statement is a nonsequitur, can you describe what you saw on your XL2746S? Or did you mean overshoot during non-strobed operation?

I only briefly saw tests as it was not my XL2746S though. Also, XL2746S still has a slight bit of strobe crosstalk too (surprisingly similar to the amount seen on an XG270 at the 120Hz refresh rate) -- maybe a smidge better, but not zeroed out. Can you confirm to me how strong/faint the strobe crosstalk on your XL2746S specimen? There might be a panel lottery factor involved.
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elexor
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by elexor » 01 Jul 2020, 03:43

My friend measured the cx oled with bfi enabled at 60hz and the input lag is 29ms. That seems higher then i would expect. This is with motion pro on high(medium is double strobing for some dumb reason).

I'm wondering if they are doing 240hz internally in this sequence (black | black | black | real frame) that would explain the input lag and it's less on medium which seems to be (black | realframe | black | realframe). no idea what they are doing for the low setting but apparently it does not reduce blur at all.

puzzling choice by lg.. why wouldn't they do it like this?

high (real frame | black | black | black)
medium (real frame |real frame | black | black)
low (real frame | real frame | real frame | black)

less input lag and medium and low become useful.

deama
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by deama » 01 Jul 2020, 05:26

elexor wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 03:43
My friend measured the cx oled with bfi enabled at 60hz and the input lag is 29ms. That seems higher then i would expect. This is with motion pro on high(medium is double strobing for some dumb reason).
Did he measure without bfi enabled as well to compare his results with himself? Since his testing methodology may have not been the same as the ones online.

elexor
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by elexor » 01 Jul 2020, 05:38

He said
motion pro off 13.28ms
motion pro medium 22ms
motion pro high 29ms

using a time sleuth

that is to the center of the screen

so it's around 21ms slower then a crt not great not terrible.

deama
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by deama » 01 Jul 2020, 05:42

elexor wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 05:38
He said
motion pro off 13.28ms
motion pro medium 22ms
motion pro high 29ms

using a time sleuth

that is to the center of the screen

so it's around 21ms slower then a crt not great not terrible.
Did he try to measure at 120hz? Would it be about half that?

elexor
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by elexor » 01 Jul 2020, 07:32

don't think the time sleuth can even measure 120hz output. I'll take a wild guess of 19.5ms

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jorimt
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by jorimt » 01 Jul 2020, 07:56

elexor wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 03:43
My friend measured the cx oled with bfi enabled at 60hz and the input lag is 29ms. That seems higher then i would expect. This is with motion pro on high(medium is double strobing for some dumb reason).

I'm wondering if they are doing 240hz internally in this sequence (black | black | black | real frame) that would explain the input lag and it's less on medium which seems to be (black | realframe | black | realframe). no idea what they are doing for the low setting but apparently it does not reduce blur at all.
Interesting.

These are middle-screen readings, which does mean the actual updates start a bit sooner, but it still seems a little high.

And yeah, by eye, (in game mode without interpolation, which is useless for gaming purposes due to input lag increase and artifacting) low and medium look worse to me than off for side-scrolling scenarios. Again, high is currently the only setting "worth" using if you're looking for any meaningful reduction in image persistence.
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AddictFPS
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by AddictFPS » 01 Jul 2020, 12:00

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 19:01
Since your statement is a nonsequitur, can you describe what you saw on your XL2746S? Or did you mean overshoot during non-strobed operation?

I only briefly saw tests as it was not my XL2746S though. Also, XL2746S still has a slight bit of strobe crosstalk too (surprisingly similar to the amount seen on an XG270 at the 120Hz refresh rate) -- maybe a smidge better, but not zeroed out. Can you confirm to me how strong/faint the strobe crosstalk on your XL2746S specimen? There might be a panel lottery factor involved.
Sorry, i not have XL2746S, my comments about it are based 100% in Dirty Scrubz 60p pursuit video: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6206&start=230

BlurBusters can upload some day a pursuit video of XG270 with the same metodology, testing all screen zones at the most common frequencies with the differents strobe levels ? to "live" compare with Dirty Scrubz XL2746S video. I only find screenshots of strobed XG270, and i think is not a fair comparison. PureXP+ BlurBuster Approved deserves much more attention from monitor review websites. Unfortunately they not make deep review of this very well tuned feature :( Would be great a self review of PureXP+ to show all its potential, convince people and maximize sales.

A great bonus would be also add 120Hz strobed with 60FPS emulator game + software BFI, to compare it with this OLED video.

For modern 3D games locked at 60FPS, OLED BFI can reduce motion blur directly, but XG270 need a solution like using Reshade software BFI, you have tested it with XG270 ?
elexor wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 03:43
My friend measured the cx oled with bfi enabled at 60hz and the input lag is 29ms. That seems higher then i would expect. This is with motion pro on high(medium is double strobing for some dumb reason).

I'm wondering if they are doing 240hz internally in this sequence (black | black | black | real frame) that would explain the input lag and it's less on medium which seems to be (black | realframe | black | realframe). no idea what they are doing for the low setting but apparently it does not reduce blur at all.

puzzling choice by lg.. why wouldn't they do it like this?

high (real frame | black | black | black)
medium (real frame |real frame | black | black)
low (real frame | real frame | real frame | black)

less input lag and medium and low become useful.
Good discovery, thanks for share ! There are to much possibilities that your information can be right, the Mario video uploader thought that double images are caused by 60to30 FPS drops in the game, but now on second thought, i think there are nothing in the game that can cause this VSync On drop to half, is just panning in the same zone again and again. Video not show FPS counter. Your explanation solve the doubt. Maybe can be fixed and included in the awaited new FreeSync firmware update if feedback is massively send to LG.

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jorimt
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by jorimt » 04 Jul 2020, 08:46

jorimt wrote:
29 Jun 2020, 21:08
in game mode, while they do retain much more brightness than "High," "Low" and "Medium" don't reduce persistence enough to use over non-BFI, honestly. It's really "High" or nothing if you want something approaching effective without using interpolation on top of BFI (the former of which is disabled in game mode). "Auto" isn't available in game mode either.
Correction on the emboldened; "Auto" is available in game mode, but it merely selects from "Low" or "Medium" presets depending on the detected content (who knows how it determines that).

--------
jorimt wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 09:32
3dfan wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 09:09
No promises, but I'll attempt some more tests this next weekend if I get the time...
jorimt wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 11:55
AddictFPS wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 10:02
Like 3dfan, i'm also interested to know if BFI work at more fixed frequencies. Excuse the insistence :oops:
Again, I'll see if I have some time this upcoming weekend to investigate further.
Okay, so it's the weekend. As promised, I'll see if I can do some (casual) follow-up testing. I'm going to disregard "Low," "Medium," and "Auto" presets entirely due to their lack of effectiveness in reducing MPRT, and focus on the "High" preset in game mode only.

So
3dfan wrote:
AddictFPS wrote:
from your previous posts, this is what you want answered, correct?

- How bright does "High" get, and how perceptible is the flicker?
- Does "High" at 60hz/60 FPS create a double image in the UFO map test?
- Does "High" function at 80Hz, 100Hz or other non 60/120Hz refresh rate?

Am I missing anything?

Also:
AddictFPS wrote:
30 Jun 2020, 10:02
With CX connected to PC, to last generation Nvidia GPU, if you disable GSync in Nvidia Control Panel, go to resolution change and select UHD 4K resolution, you can select only 60 and 120Hz, or there are more frequencies like 100Hz in the drop down list ?
I can confirm this one now:

(1080 Ti HDMI 2.0)

"PC" resolutions support 8 bpc, YCbr420 only:

- 120Hz
- 100Hz

"Ultra HD, HD, SD" resolutions support 8 bpc, RGB:

- 60Hz
- 59Hz
- 50Hz
- 30Hz
- 29Hz
- 25Hz
- 24Hz
- 23Hz

There is no out-of-box 80Hz option available. Also, the Hz options are the same whether the G-SYNC option is disabled or enabled (the 1080 Ti doesn't support it for this TV anyway).
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AddictFPS
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Re: LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

Post by AddictFPS » 04 Jul 2020, 09:24

Thanks !

Interesting, official support for 100Hz. Probably when connect it to new nvidia RTX 3000 with HDMI 2.1 100/120 also availables with RGB full color quality.

You have run testufo with 100Hz, BFI High and VSync On ? If work fine, with smooth motion and MotionBlur reduced, would be great news, demonstrating that the BFI is adaptative ! And the rest of intermediate frequencies maybe working also with Custom Resolution.

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