Ram causing desync/input lag

[whatdahek]

I don't want to start power grid issues type discussion here, but it is funny how symptoms that you guys mention about games working better without XMP/EXPO align with observations of many people with power related issues when doing same thing. Just small reference to maybe try something out of hardware realm, like checking PC at other place, if you don't see any results with multiple hardware changes and nothing makes sense.

Honestly that is the next thing on my list. I'll try as soon as possible and will update on this.

[DudeBeFishing]

have you tested if your frame rates and minimum frame times are worse with XMP enabled?

Check in the BIOS or with Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to see how loose each timing is being set. Some RAM have really loose secondary timings with XMP, which can make it perform worse than the default timings at lower lower frequency. Your motherboard might be setting some timings too loose.

CAS latency (CL) is misleading. Lowering it does reduce latency but not as much as the manufacturer wants you to believe. The other two timings (16-16-16) make a bigger difference. There's other timings like tRRD_L, tRRD_S, tFAW, tRFC, that make a bigger difference than CL. Those tend to be set really loose with XMP for compatibility. What these can run at will mostly depend on what chips your RAM is using. Samsung B-Die should be able to run tRRD_L 6, tRRD_S 4, and tFAW 16, at 3600. 4 is the lowest tRRD can be set. TFAW is effectively disabled when set to tRRD x4 or lower, 16 or lower in this case. I'm not sure about other chips from Samsung, Micron, or Hynix.

On AMD AM4, running FCLK asynchronous to the UCLK increases latency. Not sure if there's an equivalent issue on Intel.

There can be a performance penalty if the memory controller is borderline unstable. It might not crash, but there could be corrected memory errors that will slow down processing. Normally these are shown as WHEA errors in Windows Event Viewer. I wouldn't worry if it's one or two corrected, but if it's hundreds or some uncorrected, that can be a problem.

[whatdahek]

Just happened again, mouse was feeling light and I knew that games would be smooth.
Jumped in a dm then competitive and game literally felt so easy to play.
Then mouse started feeling heavy after first 2 games and was literally dying before I was even able to shoot.

[gemarda]

have you tested if your frame rates and minimum frame times are worse with XMP enabled?

Check in the BIOS or with Intel Extreme Tuning Utility to see how loose each timing is being set. Some RAM have really loose secondary timings with XMP, which can make it perform worse than the default timings at lower lower frequency. Your motherboard might be setting some timings too loose.

CAS latency (CL) is misleading. Lowering it does reduce latency but not as much as the manufacturer wants you to believe. The other two timings (16-16-16) make a bigger difference. There's other timings like tRRD_L, tRRD_S, tFAW, tRFC, that make a bigger difference than CL. Those tend to be set really loose with XMP for compatibility. What these can run at will mostly depend on what chips your RAM is using. Samsung B-Die should be able to run tRRD_L 6, tRRD_S 4, and tFAW 16, at 3600. 4 is the lowest tRRD can be set. TFAW is effectively disabled when set to tRRD x4 or lower, 16 or lower in this case. I'm not sure about other chips from Samsung, Micron, or Hynix.

On AMD AM4, running FCLK asynchronous to the UCLK increases latency. Not sure if there's an equivalent issue on Intel.

There can be a performance penalty if the memory controller is borderline unstable. It might not crash, but there could be corrected memory errors that will slow down processing. Normally these are shown as WHEA errors in Windows Event Viewer. I wouldn't worry if it's one or two corrected, but if it's hundreds or some uncorrected, that can be a problem.

Hi Dude, can you advice me about ram timings?
My pc specs are 5800x, b450 tuf gaming plus ii, rtx 3070, and my ram is Patriot viper steel rgb 3600mhz cl20 16gb(2x8).

When i enable the XMP profile the timings are
20-26-26-46 at 1.35v, with XMP i notice the system a laggy in terms of responsiveness, the timings of this ram are crappy for the cpu i think... can i tune up a bit for make it more efficient? Thanks in advance

[imprecise]

When i enable the XMP profile the timings are
20-26-26-46 at 1.35v, with XMP i notice the system a laggy in terms of responsiveness, the timings of this ram are crappy for the cpu i think... can i tune up a bit for make it more efficient? Thanks in advance

I have AM4 CPU also and your timings are similar. Have you tried turning off HPET? It makes a big difference on AMD CPUs.

image_2023-08-30_213800138.png (2.11 KiB) Viewed 6990 times

[gemarda]

When i enable the XMP profile the timings are
20-26-26-46 at 1.35v, with XMP i notice the system a laggy in terms of responsiveness, the timings of this ram are crappy for the cpu i think... can i tune up a bit for make it more efficient? Thanks in advance

I have AM4 CPU also and your timings are similar. Have you tried turning off HPET? It makes a big difference on AMD CPUs.

image_2023-08-30_213800138.png

Hi mate, do you mean the hpet in bios or windows?
I have an asus mobo and dont have the option to turn off.

In windows by default i don't have useplatformclock in bcdedit, and i've tried with useplatformtick + disabledynamictick but it feels the same for me

[imprecise]

There is a device in Windows:

image_2023-08-31_032233982.png (8.16 KiB) Viewed 6852 times

Here's a short overview video on HPET. The speaker emphasizes Intel in the video but I know from experience AMD is just as bad or worse with this setting enabled, and AMD has acknowledged HPET decreases performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsbAtchZcg

I've read the BIOS setting doesn't matter, but there may be a way to access hidden BIOS settings on your motherboard if you look it up.

[whatdahek]

There is a device in Windows:
image_2023-08-31_032233982.png

Here's a short overview video on HPET. The speaker emphasizes Intel in the video but I know from experience AMD is just as bad or worse with this setting enabled, and AMD has acknowledged HPET decreases performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsbAtchZcg

I've read the BIOS setting doesn't matter, but there may be a way to access hidden BIOS settings on your motherboard if you look it up.

I'll retry disabling hpet but it honestly makes no difference for me 99% of the time.
When the problem occurs the game even feels choppy, like it's stuttering.
I just don't get why it occurs randomly.

[TheKelz]

There is a device in Windows:
image_2023-08-31_032233982.png

Here's a short overview video on HPET. The speaker emphasizes Intel in the video but I know from experience AMD is just as bad or worse with this setting enabled, and AMD has acknowledged HPET decreases performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsbAtchZcg

I've read the BIOS setting doesn't matter, but there may be a way to access hidden BIOS settings on your motherboard if you look it up.

I'll retry disabling hpet but it honestly makes no difference for me 99% of the time.
When the problem occurs the game even feels choppy, like it's stuttering.
I just don't get why it occurs randomly.

Some generic advices:

1. Uninstall Geforce Experience if you have it
2. If your monitor is FreeSync/Gsync, turn VSync on for games you play and limit 6 FPS lower than your refresh rate
3. Don't use RTSS as a frame limiter. Use something like Nvidia Frame Limiter instead

[whatdahek]

There is a device in Windows:
image_2023-08-31_032233982.png

Here's a short overview video on HPET. The speaker emphasizes Intel in the video but I know from experience AMD is just as bad or worse with this setting enabled, and AMD has acknowledged HPET decreases performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBsbAtchZcg

I've read the BIOS setting doesn't matter, but there may be a way to access hidden BIOS settings on your motherboard if you look it up.

I'll retry disabling hpet but it honestly makes no difference for me 99% of the time.
When the problem occurs the game even feels choppy, like it's stuttering.
I just don't get why it occurs randomly.

Some generic advices:

1. Uninstall Geforce Experience if you have it
2. If your monitor is FreeSync/Gsync, turn VSync on for games you play and limit 6 FPS lower than your refresh rate
3. Don't use RTSS as a frame limiter. Use something like Nvidia Frame Limiter instead

1. I don't have it.
2. Does not help/makes things worse.

Thank you tho, every idea helps.