ASUS PG259QN ANNOUNCED! - 360Hz IPS 1ms GtG HDR Monitor with Hardware G-Sync and ULMB Strobing

[A Solid lad]

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Here's hoping it will also have low input lag and single strobe at 60hz for our retro gaming freaks.
UPDATE: Strobing only at 144 and 240hz.

EDIT:
Furter info about the monitor in this reddit post.

TL;DR:
$699
24.5" IPS panel with AG coating, 400 cd/m² (typical/HDR on), HDR 10
DisplayPort 1.4 and only HDMI 2.0 (Which means that one will probably have to use DP to get 360hz)
ULMB only at 240hz and 144hz, judging from the post. (Hopefully turns out to be false.)
UPDATE: It did not turn out to be false. Bummer.

Just regular ULMB... no ULMBS or ELMBS, which would mean u could use G/Free-sync, together with strobing.
UPDATE: Same here. Bummer.

UPDATE: From the LTT vid, it looks like this monitor has more trailing than older 240hz TNs.

EDIT 2:
LTT's review is out, and they even gave credit to us!!! (or more like Chief, lol)

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[speancer]

Thanks for sharing. Perhaps that's the beginning of the end of TN panels? I can't really tell a difference in motion clarity these days between 240 Hz TN and new-gen 240 Hz IPS. I'm really curious if these new 360 Hz IPS panels can actually handle their true response times within refresh window. For 360 Hz display that's just 2.77 ms refresh window, so it needs extremely fast GtG for good refresh rate compliance. However, I heard that at such extreme refresh rates the actual pixel response time element is not that important anymore, because refresh rate compensates for occurring blur, but personally I have no idea. A comment on that matter would be appreciated. Also, I wonder how companies are going to price these 360 Hz beasts... I'd gladly get one, if it doesn't cost a fortune.

[AddictFPS]

Current high end IPS (AHVA) 240Hz have real GtG times, 100% transitions, betwhen 5.5ms min. and 12ms max.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... tro-xv273x

Recommended Normal OD, for the best ResponseTime/Overshot, 8.4ms average, but marketing say 1ms

In the worst case, with 12ms only can do 83Hz without added smearing. Average time 120Hz, best case 181Hz, but 5-6ms are GtG to black transitions, only reached with some transitions in dark games, that is not the average gaming conditions.

Seeing than manufacturers do not say the truth, i think this new Asus will also be away from raw 1ms.

Would be funny see how they measure GtG. With ugly OD, tons of inverse ghosting and overshot, take the min. transition, and only a small part of GtG curve ?

Hope LCD Blue Phase come soon, seems the only way to boost LCD GtG to fit inside 2.77ms scanout.

Or OLED + BFI Rolling Scan, but OLED has low brightness ~400 nits, with 360Hz BFI 75% -> 90Hz MPRT 2.77ms 100 nits... no fun for the HDR fashion, and tend to burn-in. Hope MicroLED replace soon OLED, specs are amazing, non organic LEDs, in theory no burn issues. Thousands nits, nanoseconds response time...

Anyway, glad to see 360Hz, this scanout speed is good even if response time is the same. Non strobed boost in smoothness and lower input lag. Strobed with less crosstalk.

Lets see if this time Nvidia unlocked ULMB to all fixed frequencies.

[A Solid lad]

Would be funny see how they measure GtG. With ugly OD, tons of inverse ghosting and overshot, take the min. transition, and only a small part of GtG curve ?

You just described their workflow.

IMO, these "1ms" GtG IPS displays will be nowhere near 1ms.
My guess would be 4-6ms on average.

Even the new AUO "0.5ms" 240hz TNs are far from averaging 1ms... so I'd say don't get ur hopes up.

I heard that at such extreme refresh rates the actual pixel response time element is not that important anymore, because refresh rate compensates for occurring blur

I think the opposite is the case... the higher the Hz and FPS, the more obvious slow pixel response times will be.
Our good 'ol Chief might be able to shed some light on this.

[ericl]

I want it. I'm going to get it and report back (well... when it's available)

[speancer]

Current high end IPS (AHVA) 240Hz have real GtG times, 100% transitions, betwhen 5.5ms min. and 12ms max.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... tro-xv273x

Duh, you just picked a test of one IPS panel that sits on the slower side (among the newer ones) and you claim all IPS are slow? Check ASUS VG279QM and MSI MAG251RX reviews and compare the results to top-performing TNs. They're so close it's almost negligible at this point.

ASUS VG279QM review: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/vg279qm (also from RTINGS, the same measurement methodology, direct comparison to your example)

MSI MAG251RX review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leLp6Qgc6X8 (different measurement methodology, comparison against some TN panels included in the video)

Recommended Normal OD, for the best ResponseTime/Overshot, 8.4ms average, but marketing say 1ms

Advertised response times for monitors are not based on 100% transition times... 8.4 ms average is the 100% average response time for XV273X that RTINGS measured. A monitor with average 1 ms response time, either 80% GtG or 100%, does not exist. Whether it's an IPS or TN panel, 1 ms advertised response time is a gimmick. It solely means that under certain circumstances a panel can achieve some pixel transitions in around 1 ms. XV273X achieves some transitions that are as fast as 1.2 ms, but on "Extreme" overdrive, which is unusable (severe overshoot). That's a good example of the gimmick that companies use to advertise their 1 ms response time. I could bet that "Extreme" overdrive for this monitor only exists to fit that marketing claim.

Just to directly compare some results here (measurements by RTINGS, google their reviews):

ASUS TUF VG279QM (280 Hz IPS):

average 80% - 2.5 ms
dark average 80% - 2.6 ms
average 100% - 5.7 ms
dark average 100% - 5.3 ms
input lag: 1.7 ms

HP OMEN X25f (240 Hz TN, average darks not included, one of the fastest TNs I know)

average 80% - 2.1 ms
average 100% - 5.3 ms
input lag: 2.6 ms

BenQ Zowie XL2540 (old, but still popular 240 Hz TN)

average 80% - 4.1 ms
dark average 80% - 1.5 ms
average 100% - 8.3 ms
dark average 100% - 7.0 ms
input lag: 3.7 ms

That's how "slow" good new-gen IPS panels are. They are amazing and can compete with TNs.

[AddictFPS]

I not claim all are the same, is one example. XV273X with the RTings recommended Nolmal OD has only 0.2% overshot error. VG279QM use more agressive recommended OD, so you're right, lower response time, but with 3.9% overshot. 20x more overshot artifacts ! Image quality should be taken into account.

There are any IPS 240Hz with 0.2% or lower overshot, and at the same time fast response time than XV273X ?

But anyway, independently of the panel type, we need much more OD levels, even hundreds, to fine tune it. There are gamers that assume overshot and prefer the speed, but maybe not at the point of XV273X with Extreme, better a intermediate point.

[speancer]

I not claim all are the same, is one example. XV273X with the RTings recommended Nolmal OD has only 0.2% overshot error. VG279QM use more agressive recommended OD, so you're right, lower response time, but with 3.9% overshot. 20x more overshot artifacts ! Image quality should be taken into account.

There are any IPS 240Hz with 0.2% or lower overshot, and at the same time fast response time than XV273X ?

But anyway, independently of the panel type, we need much more OD levels, even hundreds, to fine tune it. There are gamers that assume overshot and prefer the speed, but maybe not at the point of XV273X with Extreme, better a intermediate point.

Bro, 3.9% average overshoot error is a value so low that it basically doesn't exist. It's unnoticeable or barely visible. Zowie XL2540 and XL2546 have way more undershoot/overshoot than ASUS VG279QM, on any overdrive setting, for example. Also, it seems like overdrive performance vary between tests. Hardware Unboxed only measured 0.6% average overshoot error for VG279QM on the same settings (280 Hz + OD 80).

I agree with you about overdrive tuning all the way. Chief Blur Buster mentioned that overdrive adjustment should be implemented as a slider, so we could move the slider and adjust overdrive from 0 to 100 and find the perfect balance for our liking. Hopefully that will eventually happen

[AddictFPS]

Yes, different review rules it's a mess. Maybe HU has other limit, above x% to consider it visible/annoying. Also panel lottery and temperature affect OD.

OSD OD slider sound very good

But the best i imagine would be a firmware together temperature sensor and OSD check box to enable automaticaly variable overdrive, so also VRR is covered, and people that change fixed frequency constantly to fit source FPS, not need touch OSD each time. With hunders of levels, default tuned to 0% under/overshot, and a slider to apply OD offset !

In GSync module and also in all Adaptive Sync high end monitors, with freedom to choice GPU. Currently i only know one Adaptive Sync monitor doing variable overdrive in fixed frequencies, AOC AG273QZ QHD TN 240Hz, what was a good surprise even for TFTCentral reviewer !

[A Solid lad]

There are gamers that assume overshot and prefer the speed, but maybe not at the point of XV273X with Extreme, better a intermediate point.

Completely agreed.
I myself prefer playing on "Premium" OD on my XL2540, even though it has slightly more overshoot than "High".
Benq seems to nail overshoot look, so that the bright white trailing actually helps clear up moving images.
I can make out the individual white dots on the UFOs on the ghosting test at Premium, while they get smeared together into a line on High.

By the way, the 2540 has much less overshoot than the 2546.

You can actually fine tune OD with 100+ levels in the factory menu, on these Benq monitors, but whatever you set, sadly gets reset as soon as you switch profiles. (Which I do a lot)


Seeing that you guys are also talking about test results, I want to mention that overshoot varies a little even from sample to sample, on the exact same model of monitor and same firmware.
(Not to mention if even the FW is different... and reviewers usually don't even look at FW version)