Lack of camera smoothness when panning it left or right

[DrivenCrazy]

G-Sync should remove tearing, so it defeats the purpose of it if I can still see it. Does the technology work that way?

G-SYNC only fully removes tearing with G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on; G-SYNC on + V-SYNC off can still tear.

This is what is happening. On 60Hz refresh rate and 60 FPS lock, G-Sync is tearing.
So I enable V-Sync. Then my cap is overriden and is set to 58. Just noticed that.

Am I missing something, am I not understanding something? I need my game to be 60Hz 60FPS because for some reason I don't think I can achieve the smoothness without it.

I want you to look at these two videos and tell me if the issue is syncing or not. Assuming it's not, and I leave it alone, would frametime graph still look like it does (does it look bad?)? Is the refreshing in overlay too slow? Should it be at constant 16.6ms?

If there is no issue in frametime graph, then where I should look?

59 RTSS + V-SYNC ON + G-SYNC OFF + HZ 60 (180 jumps)

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60 RTSS + V-SYNC ON + G-SYNC OFF + HZ 60 (Panning should be flawless) (180 jumps)

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If I have frametime issues, is it necessary for them to appear on the graph?

I want to test G-SYNC + V-SYNC at 60Hz 60FPS. How I can avoid the override to ~58 that is happening?

[RealNC]

I want to test G-SYNC + V-SYNC at 60Hz 60FPS. How I can avoid the override to ~58 that is happening?

Disable ultra low latency in NVCP and Reflex in-game (if it has it.) However, g-sync doesn't do much unless the game runs below refresh rate. G-sync 60FPS@60Hz will behave pretty much the same as no g-sync at all. In other words, you're getting v-sync, not g-sync. This is why the 58FPS cap is done by ULL and Reflex.

If the added input lag is fine with you, then yeah, feel free to use g-sync with 60FPS@60Hz.

[jorimt]

This is what is happening. On 60Hz refresh rate and 60 FPS lock, G-Sync is tearing.
So I enable V-Sync. Then my cap is overriden and is set to 58. Just noticed that.

Am I missing something, am I not understanding something?

As @RealNC already stated, G-SYNC + V-SYNC + LLM Ultra or Reflex will auto limit the FPS as to ensure G-SYNC remains within it's working range.

I want you to look at these two videos and tell me if the issue is syncing or not.

Standalone V-SYNC will repeat frames with framerates within the refresh rate. With V-SYNC + 59 FPS limit + 60Hz, there will be recurring stutter roughly every second due to repeated frames.

Also, as @RealNC stated, G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + 60 FPS @60Hz is essentially G-SYNC off + V-SYNC on.

There's sync stutter and system stutter, and both can occur at the same time. G-SYNC only fixes the former, and only for framerates within the refresh rate.

If you're still experiencing recurring stutter with properly configured G-SYNC, then either G-SYNC isn't actually engaged in your problem scenarios due to user error and/or monitor model-specific issues, or the stutter you are seeing is due to frametime variances and/or spikes caused on the system-side that no form of syncing will fix.

I'm relocating this topic to General, since it seems to have little to nothing to do with actual G-SYNC operation or functionality.

[DrivenCrazy]

I'm relocating this topic to General, since it seems to have little to nothing to do with actual G-SYNC operation or functionality.

That is most likely the case.

I spent most of my time playing on V-Sync and it helped to "hide problems" I'm starting to see more and more now due to being able to use G-Sync Compatible now. I probably wrongly assumed that it is a G-Sync or syncing problem in general and started looking in the wrong direction.

If it's what you say, that IF my display has no issues and G-Sync is a 1:1 depiction of the performance of the system then the problem lies somewhere else.

I would really like to get to the bottom of this and manage to play the games I currently want to play with comfort (which would mean just keeping G-Sync on and to not experience the jumps I see, that is the current mine ideal scenario, without messing around and hopping around and tweaking things to make them good enough to be playable). It's sad to see to have a mid range/high end setup capable of outputting enough frames in games only to still experience issues. IF it can be done. If not, then so be it. But that's disappointing.

I was for the last weeks going around, "messing" with the settings and hoping for a "magic fix" in the proccess but now it seems like it warrants a more careful approach. Though I don't know what I can do.

I was holding out for a VRR capable display because I really don't like V-Sync induced input lag. I'm sensitive to it. I want a good enough for me latency in games I play. V-Sync is known to be the MOST latency inducing thing.

I'm playing my games with a controller. The games I play currently are more suited for controllers. Not just because it's my personal preference or something. The current state of PC gaming (depending on the games you play) is that a LOT of the games just suck to play with a M+KB. Designed first for consoles, rest is afterthought yada yada. You get the gist.

So with a controller I noticed I'm more sensitive to latency. Maybe something is wrong, maybe they have their own smoothing mechanisms going on, low polling rate etc. I would be just fine with M+KB I guess. The frame jumps are also less noticeable.

I started yapping a little without point so unless someone likes to read my shitty book or blog I'll cut it now

I'm gonna take a little break now from this but I want to keep the thread open if possible.

I installed another game today and it worked fine with G-Sync so far (1 game out of 5?). Just how I expected it to work. Noticed jumps with horse auto camera panning, but other than that it's okay.

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I once chased after the same smoothness you was talking about, and eventually gave up because it was downright impossible.

Maybe that is the answer.

[jorimt]

I'll say again; G-SYNC fixes tearing without introducing stutter or latency of its own. That is all.

Games stutter, with or without sync. Some games stutter more, some stutter less. Some stutter differently with different settings. There is no one-size-fits-all set-and-forget method to mitigate stutter across all games with one or more secret setting.

Modern PC gaming is also more prone to stutter than consoles due to not being a fixed platform and requiring shader caching, among other reasons. And again, there are various forms and causes of stutter and they can and will stack.

That told, if you expect to 100% eliminate all forms of stutter in every game you play without fail, plan on never playing anything again.

Refer to the below, if you haven't already:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/2/#spikes-101

[DrivenCrazy]

Games stutter, with or without sync. Some games stutter more, some stutter less. Some stutter differently with different settings.

I know that. I don't look for a completely lag free experience, which is impossible. I look for a way to fix the camera panning which is horrible to play with. I look to find out if I have a system or hardware issue somewhere for example. The rest of the different stutters is another topic.

Because I was lacking a VRR function for some time, I spent most of my time playing games with V-Sync enabled which made me not notice the jumps before as I do now. They still happened, I think, but not to that extent.

There is no one-size-fits-all set-and-forget method to mitigate stutter across all games with one or more secret setting.

By "magic fix" I meant, as I said, "I look to find out if I have a system or hardware issue somewhere for example". Maybe there is some sort of conflict happening. Anything. I can refer to AMD TPM issue, which caused stutters for all people involved some time ago. That sort of magic fix.

Modern PC gaming is also more prone to stutter than consoles due to not being a fixed platform and requiring shader caching, among other reasons. And again, there are various forms and causes of stutter and they can and will stack.

From the first page of the thread:

"I'm well aware that games aren't perfect, and the nature of PC etc. I can tolerate shader cache stuttering, or any other things that happens in games. I don't know if I can tolerate for game to shake my camera every single time I'm doing something. It's incredibly distracting and frustrating.

If it's supposed to be normal and is not an issue then oh well. My subconsciousness tells me that it isn't a normal behavior. But maybe I'm wrong and the only option is to deal with it."

Consoles also have a different syncing method I think. "I just wish we had low lag half vsync like PS4 does" yamaci said.

I'll also say again that I don't know WHAT is happening. I'm throwing words around, because I can't identify it. I'm doing it all by method of elimination, seeing what works or not. I also went with G-Sync direction at first, seeing as it is I think my literally first time using this and configuration and behavior is a little different compared to FreeSync. I know stutters happen, but WHAT stutter is this that I'm dealing with?

There is no visible to the naked eye FPS drops, nor freezes. No huge frametime spikes either (though the game looks like it experiences them), though I wouldn't say that it is exactly a flat line. Is it high "frametime variance" that is causing this? Can it be said?

I'm no tech expert, no one becomes it without not understanding something at first, so I want to get help with it if possible. My own searching provided no successful results so far.

From all the games I've tested so far and how they behave, only one of them seems to be working fine. Horse auto camera seems to be a mess though, in the exactly same spot in the game with the same frametime. I also didn't play long enough.

The only suggestions I got is to check my frametime and sensors. I checked it, but I can't say I'm reading it right. But there is no spikes that I see when something is loading for example. I also uploaded some videos and said I can provide more information. And I also asked if it's what everyone experiences.

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(13 days ago someone commented "Faulty displays can induce microstutters" lol)

Lots of different videos on youtube, besides it being an annoyance that is happening I don't know what else it is.

I'll say again; G-SYNC fixes tearing without introducing stutter or latency of its own. That is all.

Yes I know u said it. I'm keeping in mind everything u write or anyone else for that matter and coming back to it if needed to recap. You also added a note that goes "If you're still experiencing recurring stutter with properly configured G-SYNC, then either G-SYNC isn't actually engaged in your problem scenarios due to user error and/or monitor model-specific issues". Can I say for sure that I don't have a G-Sync related problem?

I believe I have system/display induced stutters rather than sync stutters, but how I can be sure of that?

That told, if you expect to 100% eliminate all forms of stutter in every game you play without fail, plan on never playing anything again

No. Why would you say that? Only one form interests me at the moment (title of the thread) and how I can work against it. IF it is one form. And it's the most bad one.

(Half-joking) I just might never play anything again. Those games aren't even worth to have headaches over to begin with. I would only benefit from it.

Refer to the below, if you haven't already:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/2/#spikes-101

Thanks. I'll bookmark it and give it a look. Also thanks for your input. Greatly appreciated.

On a side note, I found another alternative "solution" recently on my own to mitigate it to some capacity.
LFC on my display kicks in at 54 FPS, so max out every setting possible for graphical fidelity, aim for that number and don't go above 55 FPS either by limit or pushing graphics and stay in range and you have almost "silky smooth gameplay" (not 60 silky smooth obviously) with G-Sync. No camera jumps.
On other games Frame Gen also seems to help. But I think it needs to be a frame gen without Reflex. I don't remember if NVIDIA forces Reflex when you enable frame gen. I know Alan Wake comes (weirdly) without it.

Can my games drop to 54 FPS very fast then go above it and keep doing LFC activation induced stutters? But I recorded a gameplay vid and still saw them, so perhaps not.

Btw.

As @RealNC already stated, G-SYNC + V-SYNC + LLM Ultra or Reflex will auto limit the FPS as to ensure G-SYNC remains within it's working range.

It capped without LLM.

[jorimt]

Because I was lacking a VRR function for some time, I spent most of my time playing games with V-Sync enabled which made me not notice the jumps before as I do now. They still happened, I think, but not to that extent.

Because, again, G-SYNC reflects your actual moment-to-moment frametime performance virtually unfiltered, while V-SYNC does not.

I believe I have system/display induced stutters rather than sync stutters, but how I can be sure of that?

If you turn G-SYNC off and V-SYNC off and you're still experiencing the stutter.

On a side note, I found another alternative "solution" recently on my own to mitigate it to some capacity.
LFC on my display kicks in at 54 FPS, so max out every setting possible for graphical fidelity, aim for that number and don't go above 55 FPS either by limit or pushing graphics and stay in range and you have almost "silky smooth gameplay" (not 60 silky smooth obviously) with G-Sync. No camera jumps.

Not all G-SYNC displays are created equal; once G-SYNC compatible became a thing (FreeSync displays with no module and only G-SYNC driver support), it turned into the wild west where VRR quality was concerned; they all work fundamentally the same, but many G-SYNC Compatible FreeSync models have less than ideal out-of-box LFC thresholds.

On other games Frame Gen also seems to help. But I think it needs to be a frame gen without Reflex. I don't remember if NVIDIA forces Reflex when you enable frame gen. I know Alan Wake comes (weirdly) without it.

Frame Gen induces as much or more latency than standalone V-SYNC, just an FYI.

It capped without LLM.

Then it would be Reflex or an NVCP/RTSS limiter you may have forgotten to disable. If not, it's possible AW2 internally enables Reflex behavior (even though it doesn't have a user selectable option) when certain settings like FG are on. I own AW2, but haven't checked for that behavior.

With the specs in my sig, my system can barely reach a stable 120 FPS at "4k" with max settings, DLSS and Frame Gen enabled anyway, and it's not the smoothest of games.

[DrivenCrazy]

but many G-SYNC Compatible FreeSync models have less than ideal out-of-box LFC thresholds.

Do you know if it's possible to edit the LFC range, and/or temporary disable it? I don't want to break my monitor though, so if it's risky I'll stay away from it.

Frame Gen induces as much or more latency than standalone V-SYNC, just an FYI.

I know it's not easy on it. I didn't dive into how to properly utilize it. I think you need to have high enough base FPS first. Also on lower graphic settings I was able to lower latency significantly.

[jorimt]

Do you know if it's possible to edit the LFC range, and/or temporary disable it? I don't want to break my monitor though, so if it's risky I'll stay away from it.

CRU:
https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thre ... tility-CRU

It won't break your monitor, but you'll have to ask others here or elsewhere on how to change your LFC range; I've never bothered on any of my G-SYNC Compatible displays (and my main monitor is G-SYNC native). I hear it's relatively straightforward, but has varying success depending on the monitor model.

I know it's not easy on it. I didn't dive into how to properly utilize it. I think you need to have high enough base FPS first. Also on lower graphic settings I was able to lower latency significantly.

Frame Gen is an advanced form of interpolation, which means it essentially generates multiple artificial frames after the previous real frame and before the next real frame to increase the effective average framerate.

As such, all of the artificial frames will be based off of older user input, causing increased latency.

The Chief has a thread dedicated to DLSS3 and framerate limiting here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12261&hilit=dlss3

My most recent comments on using FG with G-SYNC are here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12261&p=95911&hilit=dlss3#p95911