My case with floaty/delayed mouse and keyboard.

[Vocaleyes]

Ah you wanted me to further elaborate. I understand you use the tablet as a mouse due to the lack of drift due to absolute positioning, would it be fair to call it delayed response?

The issue is even though both types of hardware exhibit this delayed feeling, what do you think they both have in common which would be a universal causal factor? That might be a good starting point to prove the issue is related.
While I can confirm that on PC the input feels either very slightly or simply inconsistently delayed too, it's tough a PC to a tablet.

What OS is the tablet using, what hardware, do you use a stylus/ fingertip or a special device?

Narrowing it down is always best to do before coming to conclusions, as currently both devices share only 1 common symptom which has a plethora of different causes, so ruling out other causes is also very necessary.

[internetexplorer4]

Ah you wanted me to further elaborate. I understand you use the tablet as a mouse due to the lack of drift due to absolute positioning, would it be fair to call it delayed response?

The issue is even though both types of hardware exhibit this delayed feeling, what do you think they both have in common which would be a universal causal factor? That might be a good starting point to prove the issue is related.
While I can confirm that on PC the input feels either very slightly or simply inconsistently delayed too, it's tough a PC to a tablet.

What OS is the tablet using, what hardware, do you use a stylus/ fingertip or a special device?

Narrowing it down is always best to do before coming to conclusions, as currently both devices share only 1 common symptom which has a plethora of different causes, so ruling out other causes is also very necessary.

sorry I'm kinda confused, it really seems that you didn't read what I wrote, maybe the reply is not showing for you idk so I'm going to copy and paste here just in case

it is not tablet like ipad, it is basically like a mouse but with absolute positioning, people use drawing tablets to play osu mostly because of mouse drift, so it is basically an usb device that you connect to your pc and use like a mouse, you can search on youtube for osu liveplays that you can see a lot of people using tablet to aim instead of a mouse, if you want to see exactly how it works inside the game you can search for osu chroma key liveplay

when I refer to floaty mouse is not about the feeling but the symptom itself, which can be seen through my gameplays and just by me moving the cursor, I have to use 200dpi not because of the feeling but because 400 dpi is actually too bad for me to use, when I talk about floaty mouse I'm referring to the lack of precision, the "mouse accel", "mouse not being 1:1", "mouse on ice" etc, and I believe your problem is the same, right? floaty mouse is one of the main symptoms that most people with this issue have, which is different from raw input lag and desync, but they are usually together

and when I try the tablet it is exactly like my mouse, the floaty symptom and the input lag are also there, even tho the tablet has no drift at all

just to clarify, the problem I have is nothing about the feeling but instead, the actual performance, my aiming is worse than a person who barely uses pc, how many people do you know that can't use 400dpi because is so hard to aim? the game I mainly played for the last 10 years, any person who play that game for like 3 or 4 months can play 10x better than me easily, I'm so bad to a point that it is impossible for someone to replicate how bad I play, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm one of the worst if not the worst player of the game considering the amount of hours I have and how bad I play, you can even find data about that, and like I said, it is not something exclusive to the game, it is basically anything that requires aiming, if I do that test the other guy did on mspain for example, my drawings are like 100x worse compared to his, https://aiming.pro/quick-play this aim trainer for example (the hexakill one), my average score is around 80-85, this is beyond being just bad, this is actually a terrible performance, anyone who barely play games can get a much better score than me, even tho I've been playing aim based games since kid, so you can't get those results just because of the feeling, you have to actually play really bad

[Vocaleyes]

Ah you wanted me to further elaborate. I understand you use the tablet as a mouse due to the lack of drift due to absolute positioning, would it be fair to call it delayed response?

The issue is even though both types of hardware exhibit this delayed feeling, what do you think they both have in common which would be a universal causal factor? That might be a good starting point to prove the issue is related.
While I can confirm that on PC the input feels either very slightly or simply inconsistently delayed too, it's tough a PC to a tablet.

What OS is the tablet using, what hardware, do you use a stylus/ fingertip or a special device?

Narrowing it down is always best to do before coming to conclusions, as currently both devices share only 1 common symptom which has a plethora of different causes, so ruling out other causes is also very necessary.

sorry I'm kinda confused, it really seems that you didn't read what I wrote, maybe the reply is not showing for you idk so I'm going to copy and paste here just in case

it is not tablet like ipad, it is basically like a mouse but with absolute positioning, people use drawing tablets to play osu mostly because of mouse drift, so it is basically an usb device that you connect to your pc and use like a mouse, you can search on youtube for osu liveplays that you can see a lot of people using tablet to aim instead of a mouse, if you want to see exactly how it works inside the game you can search for osu chroma key liveplay

when I refer to floaty mouse is not about the feeling but the symptom itself, which can be seen through my gameplays and just by me moving the cursor, I have to use 200dpi not because of the feeling but because 400 dpi is actually too bad for me to use, when I talk about floaty mouse I'm referring to the lack of precision, the "mouse accel", "mouse not being 1:1", "mouse on ice" etc, and I believe your problem is the same, right? floaty mouse is one of the main symptoms that most people with this issue have, which is different from raw input lag and desync, but they are usually together

and when I try the tablet it is exactly like my mouse, the floaty symptom and the input lag are also there, even tho the tablet has no drift at all

just to clarify, the problem I have is nothing about the feeling but instead, the actual performance, my aiming is worse than a person who barely uses pc, how many people do you know that can't use 400dpi because is so hard to aim? the game I mainly played for the last 10 years, any person who play that game for like 3 or 4 months can play 10x better than me easily, I'm so bad to a point that it is impossible for someone to replicate how bad I play, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm one of the worst if not the worst player of the game considering the amount of hours I have and how bad I play, you can even find data about that, and like I said, it is not something exclusive to the game, it is basically anything that requires aiming, if I do that test the other guy did on mspain for example, my drawings are like 100x worse compared to his, https://aiming.pro/quick-play this aim trainer for example (the hexakill one), my average score is around 80-85, this is beyond being just bad, this is actually a terrible performance, anyone who barely play games can get a much better score than me, even tho I've been playing aim based games since kid, so you can't get those results just because of the feeling, you have to actually play really bad

Ok, so when you said the issue is still on tablet, you meant using a 'tablet like device' connected to a PC instead of a regular mouse, or am I still interpreting you incorrectly?
"I've already tried using a drawing tablet to play osu for many months and it doesn't change anything, problem is still there in the same amount, tablets have absolute positioning so it has 0 drift, meaning that the mouse drift thing has nothing to do with the actual floaty behavior"
Perhaps it would be helpful if you linked the device you're talking about if not.

So the similar input latency/ floaty is more likely to be related given both tests are conducted on a PC as we have finally established.
This still doesn't rule out the by product of the mouse issue being drift, whereas the absolute positioning device is incapable of accumulating coordinates due to the nature of which it is designed & handled.
While you may be experiencing only the latency as another by-product of the issue, doesn't mean that using the drift as an initial starting point to rule out is a bad idea.

If OP manages to test on both a faulty and non-faulty machine, will conclusively decide should the results be substantial enough, but given the difference in the stars they drew should show a difference.

Regardless, now I understand that the latency you are experiencing on your computer is same as the latency when using a mouse, minus the drift due to the design of absolute positioning, doesn't rule out build hardware or handling of certain elements e.g. USB ports with 'correct' handling due to CPU or separate USB driver to chipset.

After ruling out whether mouse drift is connected at all to this issue, we can go from there as I previously mentioned.

So yes, we both experience input latency on our rigs. We still don't know whether they are related as like I said before, there are several things which can cause that feeling.. from something as large as incorrectly configured RAM from something as smalls as using the wrong USB port.

[internetexplorer4]

Ah you wanted me to further elaborate. I understand you use the tablet as a mouse due to the lack of drift due to absolute positioning, would it be fair to call it delayed response?

The issue is even though both types of hardware exhibit this delayed feeling, what do you think they both have in common which would be a universal causal factor? That might be a good starting point to prove the issue is related.
While I can confirm that on PC the input feels either very slightly or simply inconsistently delayed too, it's tough a PC to a tablet.

What OS is the tablet using, what hardware, do you use a stylus/ fingertip or a special device?

Narrowing it down is always best to do before coming to conclusions, as currently both devices share only 1 common symptom which has a plethora of different causes, so ruling out other causes is also very necessary.

sorry I'm kinda confused, it really seems that you didn't read what I wrote, maybe the reply is not showing for you idk so I'm going to copy and paste here just in case

it is not tablet like ipad, it is basically like a mouse but with absolute positioning, people use drawing tablets to play osu mostly because of mouse drift, so it is basically an usb device that you connect to your pc and use like a mouse, you can search on youtube for osu liveplays that you can see a lot of people using tablet to aim instead of a mouse, if you want to see exactly how it works inside the game you can search for osu chroma key liveplay

when I refer to floaty mouse is not about the feeling but the symptom itself, which can be seen through my gameplays and just by me moving the cursor, I have to use 200dpi not because of the feeling but because 400 dpi is actually too bad for me to use, when I talk about floaty mouse I'm referring to the lack of precision, the "mouse accel", "mouse not being 1:1", "mouse on ice" etc, and I believe your problem is the same, right? floaty mouse is one of the main symptoms that most people with this issue have, which is different from raw input lag and desync, but they are usually together

and when I try the tablet it is exactly like my mouse, the floaty symptom and the input lag are also there, even tho the tablet has no drift at all

just to clarify, the problem I have is nothing about the feeling but instead, the actual performance, my aiming is worse than a person who barely uses pc, how many people do you know that can't use 400dpi because is so hard to aim? the game I mainly played for the last 10 years, any person who play that game for like 3 or 4 months can play 10x better than me easily, I'm so bad to a point that it is impossible for someone to replicate how bad I play, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm one of the worst if not the worst player of the game considering the amount of hours I have and how bad I play, you can even find data about that, and like I said, it is not something exclusive to the game, it is basically anything that requires aiming, if I do that test the other guy did on mspain for example, my drawings are like 100x worse compared to his, https://aiming.pro/quick-play this aim trainer for example (the hexakill one), my average score is around 80-85, this is beyond being just bad, this is actually a terrible performance, anyone who barely play games can get a much better score than me, even tho I've been playing aim based games since kid, so you can't get those results just because of the feeling, you have to actually play really bad

Ok, so when you said the issue is still on tablet, you meant using a 'tablet like device' connected to a PC instead of a regular mouse, or am I still interpreting you incorrectly?
"I've already tried using a drawing tablet to play osu for many months and it doesn't change anything, problem is still there in the same amount, tablets have absolute positioning so it has 0 drift, meaning that the mouse drift thing has nothing to do with the actual floaty behavior"
Perhaps it would be helpful if you linked the device you're talking about if not.

So the similar input latency/ floaty is more likely to be related given both tests are conducted on a PC as we have finally established.
This still doesn't rule out the by product of the mouse issue being drift, whereas the absolute positioning device is incapable of accumulating coordinates due to the nature of which it is designed & handled.
While you may be experiencing only the latency as another by-product of the issue, doesn't mean that using the drift as an initial starting point to rule out is a bad idea.

If OP manages to test on both a faulty and non-faulty machine, will conclusively decide should the results be substantial enough, but given the difference in the stars they drew should show a difference.

Regardless, now I understand that the latency you are experiencing on your computer is same as the latency when using a mouse, minus the drift due to the design of absolute positioning, doesn't rule out build hardware or handling of certain elements e.g. USB ports with 'correct' handling due to CPU or separate USB driver to chipset.

After ruling out whether mouse drift is connected at all to this issue, we can go from there as I previously mentioned.

So yes, we both experience input latency on our rigs. We still don't know whether they are related as like I said before, there are several things which can cause that feeling.. from something as large as incorrectly configured RAM from something as smalls as using the wrong USB port.

yeah but the main point is not the latency, I'm talking about the floaty behavior, you saw that I have to use 200dpi right? latency/raw input lag can't be the reason of that, I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi

you have the same problem right? you probably can't aim because your aim isn't precise enough, input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing, the tablet has the same lack of precision as the mouse

and like I said, this is the most important thing of my point, I use >>>200 dpi<<< and my >>precision<< is **worse** than someone using 3k dpi, so this is literally impossible unless I have some illness/mental problem, I'm literally one of the worse if not the worse player on the game I play, not only my gameplay but literally any task I have to do with a mouse is below average, so I'm not dealing with a small aspect that could be hardware or software related, this is not like "oh I move my mouse on the desktop and I can feel that my mouse is not 100%" no, it is literally me playing like a completely ret@rded, this is huge thing and it is a huge difference from anything related to config, os, chipsets or whatever

not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors, even the tablet I mentioned was not the only one I tried, and besides the laptops which are less affected by the issue but not even close to fix, the other pcs I tried so far had the same exact thing

watch these 2 videos and pay attention to my cursor movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC7JyH9Ks4M this is 2016, I already had the problem there but it was a lot lower
https://ordr.issou.best/watch/Uq1fhk and this is 2024 where the problem is a lot worse

it might look that I'm exaggerating but I'm not, the second gameplay is beyong being just bad, it is just unhuman, if you play this game for like 3 or 4 weeks with 3k dpi, your aim would be way sharper than mine, and I'm not even joking, this is literally insane, people don't understand when I say this but I play this game for 10 years and I'm saying that no one in the entire game is bad like I am, so this is the whole point of the thing, when I use tablet, my aim is identical to that, and if you give someone a broken tablet with a toaster pc with huge input lag, stutter and etc, their aim would still be 100x better than mine, does that makes sense for you now? this is what I'm trying to say to you, you can't find anyone that bad like me, you won't find anyone who uses 200dpi and get that bad score on aimtrainers, if what I have was something related to hardware, software, os, chipsets, drivers etc, it would have thousands of people playing like that, but what I do is literally impossible for someone to replicate even if they play with lag, wrong drivers, broken mouse etc

[Vocaleyes]

Ah you wanted me to further elaborate. I understand you use the tablet as a mouse due to the lack of drift due to absolute positioning, would it be fair to call it delayed response?

The issue is even though both types of hardware exhibit this delayed feeling, what do you think they both have in common which would be a universal causal factor? That might be a good starting point to prove the issue is related.
While I can confirm that on PC the input feels either very slightly or simply inconsistently delayed too, it's tough a PC to a tablet.

What OS is the tablet using, what hardware, do you use a stylus/ fingertip or a special device?

Narrowing it down is always best to do before coming to conclusions, as currently both devices share only 1 common symptom which has a plethora of different causes, so ruling out other causes is also very necessary.

sorry I'm kinda confused, it really seems that you didn't read what I wrote, maybe the reply is not showing for you idk so I'm going to copy and paste here just in case

it is not tablet like ipad, it is basically like a mouse but with absolute positioning, people use drawing tablets to play osu mostly because of mouse drift, so it is basically an usb device that you connect to your pc and use like a mouse, you can search on youtube for osu liveplays that you can see a lot of people using tablet to aim instead of a mouse, if you want to see exactly how it works inside the game you can search for osu chroma key liveplay

when I refer to floaty mouse is not about the feeling but the symptom itself, which can be seen through my gameplays and just by me moving the cursor, I have to use 200dpi not because of the feeling but because 400 dpi is actually too bad for me to use, when I talk about floaty mouse I'm referring to the lack of precision, the "mouse accel", "mouse not being 1:1", "mouse on ice" etc, and I believe your problem is the same, right? floaty mouse is one of the main symptoms that most people with this issue have, which is different from raw input lag and desync, but they are usually together

and when I try the tablet it is exactly like my mouse, the floaty symptom and the input lag are also there, even tho the tablet has no drift at all

just to clarify, the problem I have is nothing about the feeling but instead, the actual performance, my aiming is worse than a person who barely uses pc, how many people do you know that can't use 400dpi because is so hard to aim? the game I mainly played for the last 10 years, any person who play that game for like 3 or 4 months can play 10x better than me easily, I'm so bad to a point that it is impossible for someone to replicate how bad I play, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm one of the worst if not the worst player of the game considering the amount of hours I have and how bad I play, you can even find data about that, and like I said, it is not something exclusive to the game, it is basically anything that requires aiming, if I do that test the other guy did on mspain for example, my drawings are like 100x worse compared to his, https://aiming.pro/quick-play this aim trainer for example (the hexakill one), my average score is around 80-85, this is beyond being just bad, this is actually a terrible performance, anyone who barely play games can get a much better score than me, even tho I've been playing aim based games since kid, so you can't get those results just because of the feeling, you have to actually play really bad

Ok, so when you said the issue is still on tablet, you meant using a 'tablet like device' connected to a PC instead of a regular mouse, or am I still interpreting you incorrectly?
"I've already tried using a drawing tablet to play osu for many months and it doesn't change anything, problem is still there in the same amount, tablets have absolute positioning so it has 0 drift, meaning that the mouse drift thing has nothing to do with the actual floaty behavior"
Perhaps it would be helpful if you linked the device you're talking about if not.

So the similar input latency/ floaty is more likely to be related given both tests are conducted on a PC as we have finally established.
This still doesn't rule out the by product of the mouse issue being drift, whereas the absolute positioning device is incapable of accumulating coordinates due to the nature of which it is designed & handled.
While you may be experiencing only the latency as another by-product of the issue, doesn't mean that using the drift as an initial starting point to rule out is a bad idea.

If OP manages to test on both a faulty and non-faulty machine, will conclusively decide should the results be substantial enough, but given the difference in the stars they drew should show a difference.

Regardless, now I understand that the latency you are experiencing on your computer is same as the latency when using a mouse, minus the drift due to the design of absolute positioning, doesn't rule out build hardware or handling of certain elements e.g. USB ports with 'correct' handling due to CPU or separate USB driver to chipset.

After ruling out whether mouse drift is connected at all to this issue, we can go from there as I previously mentioned.

So yes, we both experience input latency on our rigs. We still don't know whether they are related as like I said before, there are several things which can cause that feeling.. from something as large as incorrectly configured RAM from something as smalls as using the wrong USB port.

yeah but the main point is not the latency, I'm talking about the floaty behavior, you saw that I have to use 200dpi right? latency/raw input lag can't be the reason of that, I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi

you have the same problem right? you probably can't aim because your aim isn't precise enough, input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing, the tablet has the same lack of precision as the mouse

and like I said, this is the most important thing of my point, I use >>>200 dpi<<< and my >>precision<< is **worse** than someone using 3k dpi, so this is literally impossible unless I have some illness/mental problem, I'm literally one of the worse if not the worse player on the game I play, not only my gameplay but literally any task I have to do with a mouse is below average, so I'm not dealing with a small aspect that could be hardware or software related, this is not like "oh I move my mouse on the desktop and I can feel that my mouse is not 100%" no, it is literally me playing like a completely ret@rded, this is huge thing and it is a huge difference from anything related to config, os, chipsets or whatever

not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors, even the tablet I mentioned was not the only one I tried, and besides the laptops which are less affected by the issue but not even close to fix, the other pcs I tried so far had the same exact thing

watch these 2 videos and pay attention to my cursor movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC7JyH9Ks4M this is 2016, I already had the problem there but it was a lot lower
https://ordr.issou.best/watch/Uq1fhk and this is 2024 where the problem is a lot worse

it might look that I'm exaggerating but I'm not, the second gameplay is beyong being just bad, it is just unhuman, if you play this game for like 3 or 4 weeks with 3k dpi, your aim would be way sharper than mine, and I'm not even joking, this is literally insane, people don't understand when I say this but I play this game for 10 years and I'm saying that no one in the entire game is bad like I am, so this is the whole point of the thing, when I use tablet, my aim is identical to that, and if you give someone a broken tablet with a toaster pc with huge input lag, stutter and etc, their aim would still be 100x better than mine, does that makes sense for you now? this is what I'm trying to say to you, you can't find anyone that bad like me, you won't find anyone who uses 200dpi and get that bad score on aimtrainers, if what I have was something related to hardware, software, os, chipsets, drivers etc, it would have thousands of people playing like that, but what I do is literally impossible for someone to replicate even if they play with lag, wrong drivers, broken mouse etc

“I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi” so I assume you use windows mouse speed at 6/11, try 3 firstly.

What dpi you prefer to use is of little use unfortunately, everyone is different as are once again other variables, like usb port, nvcp settings, windows settings etc. also when I have a working PC without this issue years ago, I didn’t like 6/11 then either, so when I see people saying it’s the best setting, I can’t relate to that at all.

“input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing” possibly, but also can very well be one and the same.
A mouse can feel floaty when the input is delayed by perceivable milliseconds, on the other hand when the delay value is greater e.g. closer to a second or so delay, that can be also called either input delay or floaty mouse.. if anything, more so.

“not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors” quite a lot of people have tried a lot of various things, the reason we all have is because finding a modern rig without these issues is proving to be quite rare, and one wouldn’t continue searching once the solution was found.
Which is why the OP is in a seemly advantageous position for figuring out the causal factor(s).

After watching the videos you provided, it’s hard to give feedback without simultaneously seeing your hand to compare the movement in game to the physical movement as a comparison. Maybe try to capture both in the same capture and then see if you can slow-mo the playback to see if the on screen movement is in fact, delayed.

I started gaming around 2010 on a laptop, Lenovo.. I used to use the touchpad to play an MMO game with zero issue at an extremely high level, the game was DCUO. then I got in to FPS and got a PC instead with a mouse. Once again, zero issue immediately developed muscle memory on both touchpad and mouse, it was NOT a gradual improvement. (Game mechanics/ map knowledge on the other were are an entirely different story and learning curve).
The game I started with on PC was COD ghosts. I was max prestige with a 4+ kd.

So how we got from having a majority of correctly functioning and responsive devices with MINIMAL mouse drift if any to where we are now, where a majority of systems do not function as they used to and more importantly, should… is what we are all trying to figure out.

And it’s like you’ve said yourself, you’ve ruled out mouse, keyboard, monitors and 20 pcs being a factor, as have we all for years now. would you care to be more informative with exactly what hardware those pcs were using, that could be helpful with process of elimination. And as you’ve tried 20, should be very enlightening. Start with all the mobos those pcs contained.

And after everything you say you’ve tried, what do you currently think is the causal factor?

[internetexplorer4]

sorry I'm kinda confused, it really seems that you didn't read what I wrote, maybe the reply is not showing for you idk so I'm going to copy and paste here just in case

it is not tablet like ipad, it is basically like a mouse but with absolute positioning, people use drawing tablets to play osu mostly because of mouse drift, so it is basically an usb device that you connect to your pc and use like a mouse, you can search on youtube for osu liveplays that you can see a lot of people using tablet to aim instead of a mouse, if you want to see exactly how it works inside the game you can search for osu chroma key liveplay

when I refer to floaty mouse is not about the feeling but the symptom itself, which can be seen through my gameplays and just by me moving the cursor, I have to use 200dpi not because of the feeling but because 400 dpi is actually too bad for me to use, when I talk about floaty mouse I'm referring to the lack of precision, the "mouse accel", "mouse not being 1:1", "mouse on ice" etc, and I believe your problem is the same, right? floaty mouse is one of the main symptoms that most people with this issue have, which is different from raw input lag and desync, but they are usually together

and when I try the tablet it is exactly like my mouse, the floaty symptom and the input lag are also there, even tho the tablet has no drift at all

just to clarify, the problem I have is nothing about the feeling but instead, the actual performance, my aiming is worse than a person who barely uses pc, how many people do you know that can't use 400dpi because is so hard to aim? the game I mainly played for the last 10 years, any person who play that game for like 3 or 4 months can play 10x better than me easily, I'm so bad to a point that it is impossible for someone to replicate how bad I play, and I'm not exaggerating, I'm one of the worst if not the worst player of the game considering the amount of hours I have and how bad I play, you can even find data about that, and like I said, it is not something exclusive to the game, it is basically anything that requires aiming, if I do that test the other guy did on mspain for example, my drawings are like 100x worse compared to his, https://aiming.pro/quick-play this aim trainer for example (the hexakill one), my average score is around 80-85, this is beyond being just bad, this is actually a terrible performance, anyone who barely play games can get a much better score than me, even tho I've been playing aim based games since kid, so you can't get those results just because of the feeling, you have to actually play really bad

Ok, so when you said the issue is still on tablet, you meant using a 'tablet like device' connected to a PC instead of a regular mouse, or am I still interpreting you incorrectly?
"I've already tried using a drawing tablet to play osu for many months and it doesn't change anything, problem is still there in the same amount, tablets have absolute positioning so it has 0 drift, meaning that the mouse drift thing has nothing to do with the actual floaty behavior"
Perhaps it would be helpful if you linked the device you're talking about if not.

So the similar input latency/ floaty is more likely to be related given both tests are conducted on a PC as we have finally established.
This still doesn't rule out the by product of the mouse issue being drift, whereas the absolute positioning device is incapable of accumulating coordinates due to the nature of which it is designed & handled.
While you may be experiencing only the latency as another by-product of the issue, doesn't mean that using the drift as an initial starting point to rule out is a bad idea.

If OP manages to test on both a faulty and non-faulty machine, will conclusively decide should the results be substantial enough, but given the difference in the stars they drew should show a difference.

Regardless, now I understand that the latency you are experiencing on your computer is same as the latency when using a mouse, minus the drift due to the design of absolute positioning, doesn't rule out build hardware or handling of certain elements e.g. USB ports with 'correct' handling due to CPU or separate USB driver to chipset.

After ruling out whether mouse drift is connected at all to this issue, we can go from there as I previously mentioned.

So yes, we both experience input latency on our rigs. We still don't know whether they are related as like I said before, there are several things which can cause that feeling.. from something as large as incorrectly configured RAM from something as smalls as using the wrong USB port.

yeah but the main point is not the latency, I'm talking about the floaty behavior, you saw that I have to use 200dpi right? latency/raw input lag can't be the reason of that, I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi

you have the same problem right? you probably can't aim because your aim isn't precise enough, input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing, the tablet has the same lack of precision as the mouse

and like I said, this is the most important thing of my point, I use >>>200 dpi<<< and my >>precision<< is **worse** than someone using 3k dpi, so this is literally impossible unless I have some illness/mental problem, I'm literally one of the worse if not the worse player on the game I play, not only my gameplay but literally any task I have to do with a mouse is below average, so I'm not dealing with a small aspect that could be hardware or software related, this is not like "oh I move my mouse on the desktop and I can feel that my mouse is not 100%" no, it is literally me playing like a completely ret@rded, this is huge thing and it is a huge difference from anything related to config, os, chipsets or whatever

not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors, even the tablet I mentioned was not the only one I tried, and besides the laptops which are less affected by the issue but not even close to fix, the other pcs I tried so far had the same exact thing

watch these 2 videos and pay attention to my cursor movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC7JyH9Ks4M this is 2016, I already had the problem there but it was a lot lower
https://ordr.issou.best/watch/Uq1fhk and this is 2024 where the problem is a lot worse

it might look that I'm exaggerating but I'm not, the second gameplay is beyong being just bad, it is just unhuman, if you play this game for like 3 or 4 weeks with 3k dpi, your aim would be way sharper than mine, and I'm not even joking, this is literally insane, people don't understand when I say this but I play this game for 10 years and I'm saying that no one in the entire game is bad like I am, so this is the whole point of the thing, when I use tablet, my aim is identical to that, and if you give someone a broken tablet with a toaster pc with huge input lag, stutter and etc, their aim would still be 100x better than mine, does that makes sense for you now? this is what I'm trying to say to you, you can't find anyone that bad like me, you won't find anyone who uses 200dpi and get that bad score on aimtrainers, if what I have was something related to hardware, software, os, chipsets, drivers etc, it would have thousands of people playing like that, but what I do is literally impossible for someone to replicate even if they play with lag, wrong drivers, broken mouse etc

“I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi” so I assume you use windows mouse speed at 6/11, try 3 firstly.

What dpi you prefer to use is of little use unfortunately, everyone is different as are once again other variables, like usb port, nvcp settings, windows settings etc. also when I have a working PC without this issue years ago, I didn’t like 6/11 then either, so when I see people saying it’s the best setting, I can’t relate to that at all.

“input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing” possibly, but also can very well be one and the same.
A mouse can feel floaty when the input is delayed by perceivable milliseconds, on the other hand when the delay value is greater e.g. closer to a second or so delay, that can be also called either input delay or floaty mouse.. if anything, more so.

“not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors” quite a lot of people have tried a lot of various things, the reason we all have is because finding a modern rig without these issues is proving to be quite rare, and one wouldn’t continue searching once the solution was found.
Which is why the OP is in a seemly advantageous position for figuring out the causal factor(s).

After watching the videos you provided, it’s hard to give feedback without simultaneously seeing your hand to compare the movement in game to the physical movement as a comparison. Maybe try to capture both in the same capture and then see if you can slow-mo the playback to see if the on screen movement is in fact, delayed.

I started gaming around 2010 on a laptop, Lenovo.. I used to use the touchpad to play an MMO game with zero issue at an extremely high level, the game was DCUO. then I got in to FPS and got a PC instead with a mouse. Once again, zero issue immediately developed muscle memory on both touchpad and mouse, it was NOT a gradual improvement. (Game mechanics/ map knowledge on the other were are an entirely different story and learning curve).
The game I started with on PC was COD ghosts. I was max prestige with a 4+ kd.

So how we got from having a majority of correctly functioning and responsive devices with MINIMAL mouse drift if any to where we are now, where a majority of systems do not function as they used to and more importantly, should… is what we are all trying to figure out.

And it’s like you’ve said yourself, you’ve ruled out mouse, keyboard, monitors and 20 pcs being a factor, as have we all for years now. would you care to be more informative with exactly what hardware those pcs were using, that could be helpful with process of elimination. And as you’ve tried 20, should be very enlightening. Start with all the mobos those pcs contained.

And after everything you say you’ve tried, what do you currently think is the causal factor?

ok so, first we need to understand the most important thing that is: my gameplay when it comes to both mouse movement and keyboard delay is not just bad or really bad, it is completely abnormal and impossible for someone to reproduce <- this is the most important thing

I can prove and explain this with all the details but I would need to explain lot of things about the game I play, showing data, lot of screenshots, videos etc (I explained why I don't do this here in this comment viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13066&p=106313#p106313)

once you know that my gameplay is completely abnormal, way beyond being just bad or being laggy, there are 2 options, you can either consider that I'm just a ret@rd that can't even move a mouse properly but can do any other task outside the pc without any problem, like drawing, sports etc

or you can consider that I have the same problem with interference that people here also have

if you think my gameplay is good or average, there is literally no point discussing this, because what I'm gonna say here just makes sense because my gameplay is completely abnormal, way more than people with this same problem, like I said, I >>have<< to use 200 dpi, it is not my preference, if I use 400 dpi or above I literally can't click on the desktop icons, I had to lower my dpi over the years due to this problem

so ok, if you are considering that I have the issue and I'm not ret@rded, so it is not a skill issue but a "interference" or whatever you want to call it, and you know that my gameplay is completely abnormal and people can't reproduce it even if they try it, it becomes pretty simple

because I tested with 2 guys at a gaming cafe, we played on the same pc, they could play 10x better than me without any problem and they were average players, while I had the same gameplay that I had on every other pc I tried, which is extremely below average gameplay, and >impossible for someone to reproduce<

so if it is not skill issue and they could play normally without any problem at the same place, on the same pc, with the same mouse, same keyboard, monitor, configs etc, getting scores 10x better than me while being average players, if we are considering that I play that bad because of interference and not because skill issue, it becomes pretty clear where the problem is comming from, don't you agree?

if you are still considering that it could be hardware/software related in my case, even tho that 2 different people were playing on the exact same setup I was playing (like I said, same pc, same mouse, same keyboard, same monitor, same game, same config etc) could you explain how that could be possible?

with this test, there are only 2 options left for you to consider, either the problem doesn't exist and I just play really bad, being the worst player in the world or I cause interference when I touch the mouse and the keyboard, if you think something different I would like to understand the reason

[Vocaleyes]

Ok, so when you said the issue is still on tablet, you meant using a 'tablet like device' connected to a PC instead of a regular mouse, or am I still interpreting you incorrectly?
"I've already tried using a drawing tablet to play osu for many months and it doesn't change anything, problem is still there in the same amount, tablets have absolute positioning so it has 0 drift, meaning that the mouse drift thing has nothing to do with the actual floaty behavior"
Perhaps it would be helpful if you linked the device you're talking about if not.

So the similar input latency/ floaty is more likely to be related given both tests are conducted on a PC as we have finally established.
This still doesn't rule out the by product of the mouse issue being drift, whereas the absolute positioning device is incapable of accumulating coordinates due to the nature of which it is designed & handled.
While you may be experiencing only the latency as another by-product of the issue, doesn't mean that using the drift as an initial starting point to rule out is a bad idea.

If OP manages to test on both a faulty and non-faulty machine, will conclusively decide should the results be substantial enough, but given the difference in the stars they drew should show a difference.

Regardless, now I understand that the latency you are experiencing on your computer is same as the latency when using a mouse, minus the drift due to the design of absolute positioning, doesn't rule out build hardware or handling of certain elements e.g. USB ports with 'correct' handling due to CPU or separate USB driver to chipset.

After ruling out whether mouse drift is connected at all to this issue, we can go from there as I previously mentioned.

So yes, we both experience input latency on our rigs. We still don't know whether they are related as like I said before, there are several things which can cause that feeling.. from something as large as incorrectly configured RAM from something as smalls as using the wrong USB port.

yeah but the main point is not the latency, I'm talking about the floaty behavior, you saw that I have to use 200dpi right? latency/raw input lag can't be the reason of that, I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi

you have the same problem right? you probably can't aim because your aim isn't precise enough, input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing, the tablet has the same lack of precision as the mouse

and like I said, this is the most important thing of my point, I use >>>200 dpi<<< and my >>precision<< is **worse** than someone using 3k dpi, so this is literally impossible unless I have some illness/mental problem, I'm literally one of the worse if not the worse player on the game I play, not only my gameplay but literally any task I have to do with a mouse is below average, so I'm not dealing with a small aspect that could be hardware or software related, this is not like "oh I move my mouse on the desktop and I can feel that my mouse is not 100%" no, it is literally me playing like a completely ret@rded, this is huge thing and it is a huge difference from anything related to config, os, chipsets or whatever

not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors, even the tablet I mentioned was not the only one I tried, and besides the laptops which are less affected by the issue but not even close to fix, the other pcs I tried so far had the same exact thing

watch these 2 videos and pay attention to my cursor movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC7JyH9Ks4M this is 2016, I already had the problem there but it was a lot lower
https://ordr.issou.best/watch/Uq1fhk and this is 2024 where the problem is a lot worse

it might look that I'm exaggerating but I'm not, the second gameplay is beyong being just bad, it is just unhuman, if you play this game for like 3 or 4 weeks with 3k dpi, your aim would be way sharper than mine, and I'm not even joking, this is literally insane, people don't understand when I say this but I play this game for 10 years and I'm saying that no one in the entire game is bad like I am, so this is the whole point of the thing, when I use tablet, my aim is identical to that, and if you give someone a broken tablet with a toaster pc with huge input lag, stutter and etc, their aim would still be 100x better than mine, does that makes sense for you now? this is what I'm trying to say to you, you can't find anyone that bad like me, you won't find anyone who uses 200dpi and get that bad score on aimtrainers, if what I have was something related to hardware, software, os, chipsets, drivers etc, it would have thousands of people playing like that, but what I do is literally impossible for someone to replicate even if they play with lag, wrong drivers, broken mouse etc

“I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi” so I assume you use windows mouse speed at 6/11, try 3 firstly.

What dpi you prefer to use is of little use unfortunately, everyone is different as are once again other variables, like usb port, nvcp settings, windows settings etc. also when I have a working PC without this issue years ago, I didn’t like 6/11 then either, so when I see people saying it’s the best setting, I can’t relate to that at all.

“input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing” possibly, but also can very well be one and the same.
A mouse can feel floaty when the input is delayed by perceivable milliseconds, on the other hand when the delay value is greater e.g. closer to a second or so delay, that can be also called either input delay or floaty mouse.. if anything, more so.

“not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors” quite a lot of people have tried a lot of various things, the reason we all have is because finding a modern rig without these issues is proving to be quite rare, and one wouldn’t continue searching once the solution was found.
Which is why the OP is in a seemly advantageous position for figuring out the causal factor(s).

After watching the videos you provided, it’s hard to give feedback without simultaneously seeing your hand to compare the movement in game to the physical movement as a comparison. Maybe try to capture both in the same capture and then see if you can slow-mo the playback to see if the on screen movement is in fact, delayed.

I started gaming around 2010 on a laptop, Lenovo.. I used to use the touchpad to play an MMO game with zero issue at an extremely high level, the game was DCUO. then I got in to FPS and got a PC instead with a mouse. Once again, zero issue immediately developed muscle memory on both touchpad and mouse, it was NOT a gradual improvement. (Game mechanics/ map knowledge on the other were are an entirely different story and learning curve).
The game I started with on PC was COD ghosts. I was max prestige with a 4+ kd.

So how we got from having a majority of correctly functioning and responsive devices with MINIMAL mouse drift if any to where we are now, where a majority of systems do not function as they used to and more importantly, should… is what we are all trying to figure out.

And it’s like you’ve said yourself, you’ve ruled out mouse, keyboard, monitors and 20 pcs being a factor, as have we all for years now. would you care to be more informative with exactly what hardware those pcs were using, that could be helpful with process of elimination. And as you’ve tried 20, should be very enlightening. Start with all the mobos those pcs contained.

And after everything you say you’ve tried, what do you currently think is the causal factor?

ok so, first we need to understand the most important thing that is: my gameplay when it comes to both mouse movement and keyboard delay is not just bad or really bad, it is completely abnormal and impossible for someone to reproduce <- this is the most important thing

I can prove and explain this with all the details but I would need to explain lot of things about the game I play, showing data, lot of screenshots, videos etc (I explained why I don't do this here in this comment viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13066&p=106313#p106313)

once you know that my gameplay is completely abnormal, way beyond being just bad or being laggy, there are 2 options, you can either consider that I'm just a ret@rd that can't even move a mouse properly but can do any other task outside the pc without any problem, like drawing, sports etc

or you can consider that I have the same problem with interference that people here also have

if you think my gameplay is good or average, there is literally no point discussing this, because what I'm gonna say here just makes sense because my gameplay is completely abnormal, way more than people with this same problem, like I said, I >>have<< to use 200 dpi, it is not my preference, if I use 400 dpi or above I literally can't click on the desktop icons, I had to lower my dpi over the years due to this problem

so ok, if you are considering that I have the issue and I'm not ret@rded, so it is not a skill issue but a "interference" or whatever you want to call it, and you know that my gameplay is completely abnormal and people can't reproduce it even if they try it, it becomes pretty simple

because I tested with 2 guys at a gaming cafe, we played on the same pc, they could play 10x better than me without any problem and they were average players, while I had the same gameplay that I had on every other pc I tried, which is extremely below average gameplay, and >impossible for someone to reproduce<

so if it is not skill issue and they could play normally without any problem at the same place, on the same pc, with the same mouse, same keyboard, monitor, configs etc, getting scores 10x better than me while being average players, if we are considering that I play that bad because of interference and not because skill issue, it becomes pretty clear where the problem is comming from, don't you agree?

if you are still considering that it could be hardware/software related in my case, even tho that 2 different people were playing on the exact same setup I was playing (like I said, same pc, same mouse, same keyboard, same monitor, same game, same config etc) could you explain how that could be possible?

with this test, there are only 2 options left for you to consider, either the problem doesn't exist and I just play really bad, being the worst player in the world or I cause interference when I touch the mouse and the keyboard, if you think something different I would like to understand the reason

I did ask you questions and as it was so important I addressed yours, kindly reciprocate. Thank you.

[internetexplorer4]

yeah but the main point is not the latency, I'm talking about the floaty behavior, you saw that I have to use 200dpi right? latency/raw input lag can't be the reason of that, I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi

you have the same problem right? you probably can't aim because your aim isn't precise enough, input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing, the tablet has the same lack of precision as the mouse

and like I said, this is the most important thing of my point, I use >>>200 dpi<<< and my >>precision<< is **worse** than someone using 3k dpi, so this is literally impossible unless I have some illness/mental problem, I'm literally one of the worse if not the worse player on the game I play, not only my gameplay but literally any task I have to do with a mouse is below average, so I'm not dealing with a small aspect that could be hardware or software related, this is not like "oh I move my mouse on the desktop and I can feel that my mouse is not 100%" no, it is literally me playing like a completely ret@rded, this is huge thing and it is a huge difference from anything related to config, os, chipsets or whatever

not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors, even the tablet I mentioned was not the only one I tried, and besides the laptops which are less affected by the issue but not even close to fix, the other pcs I tried so far had the same exact thing

watch these 2 videos and pay attention to my cursor movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC7JyH9Ks4M this is 2016, I already had the problem there but it was a lot lower
https://ordr.issou.best/watch/Uq1fhk and this is 2024 where the problem is a lot worse

it might look that I'm exaggerating but I'm not, the second gameplay is beyong being just bad, it is just unhuman, if you play this game for like 3 or 4 weeks with 3k dpi, your aim would be way sharper than mine, and I'm not even joking, this is literally insane, people don't understand when I say this but I play this game for 10 years and I'm saying that no one in the entire game is bad like I am, so this is the whole point of the thing, when I use tablet, my aim is identical to that, and if you give someone a broken tablet with a toaster pc with huge input lag, stutter and etc, their aim would still be 100x better than mine, does that makes sense for you now? this is what I'm trying to say to you, you can't find anyone that bad like me, you won't find anyone who uses 200dpi and get that bad score on aimtrainers, if what I have was something related to hardware, software, os, chipsets, drivers etc, it would have thousands of people playing like that, but what I do is literally impossible for someone to replicate even if they play with lag, wrong drivers, broken mouse etc

“I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi” so I assume you use windows mouse speed at 6/11, try 3 firstly.

What dpi you prefer to use is of little use unfortunately, everyone is different as are once again other variables, like usb port, nvcp settings, windows settings etc. also when I have a working PC without this issue years ago, I didn’t like 6/11 then either, so when I see people saying it’s the best setting, I can’t relate to that at all.

“input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing” possibly, but also can very well be one and the same.
A mouse can feel floaty when the input is delayed by perceivable milliseconds, on the other hand when the delay value is greater e.g. closer to a second or so delay, that can be also called either input delay or floaty mouse.. if anything, more so.

“not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors” quite a lot of people have tried a lot of various things, the reason we all have is because finding a modern rig without these issues is proving to be quite rare, and one wouldn’t continue searching once the solution was found.
Which is why the OP is in a seemly advantageous position for figuring out the causal factor(s).

After watching the videos you provided, it’s hard to give feedback without simultaneously seeing your hand to compare the movement in game to the physical movement as a comparison. Maybe try to capture both in the same capture and then see if you can slow-mo the playback to see if the on screen movement is in fact, delayed.

I started gaming around 2010 on a laptop, Lenovo.. I used to use the touchpad to play an MMO game with zero issue at an extremely high level, the game was DCUO. then I got in to FPS and got a PC instead with a mouse. Once again, zero issue immediately developed muscle memory on both touchpad and mouse, it was NOT a gradual improvement. (Game mechanics/ map knowledge on the other were are an entirely different story and learning curve).
The game I started with on PC was COD ghosts. I was max prestige with a 4+ kd.

So how we got from having a majority of correctly functioning and responsive devices with MINIMAL mouse drift if any to where we are now, where a majority of systems do not function as they used to and more importantly, should… is what we are all trying to figure out.

And it’s like you’ve said yourself, you’ve ruled out mouse, keyboard, monitors and 20 pcs being a factor, as have we all for years now. would you care to be more informative with exactly what hardware those pcs were using, that could be helpful with process of elimination. And as you’ve tried 20, should be very enlightening. Start with all the mobos those pcs contained.

And after everything you say you’ve tried, what do you currently think is the causal factor?

ok so, first we need to understand the most important thing that is: my gameplay when it comes to both mouse movement and keyboard delay is not just bad or really bad, it is completely abnormal and impossible for someone to reproduce <- this is the most important thing

I can prove and explain this with all the details but I would need to explain lot of things about the game I play, showing data, lot of screenshots, videos etc (I explained why I don't do this here in this comment viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13066&p=106313#p106313)

once you know that my gameplay is completely abnormal, way beyond being just bad or being laggy, there are 2 options, you can either consider that I'm just a ret@rd that can't even move a mouse properly but can do any other task outside the pc without any problem, like drawing, sports etc

or you can consider that I have the same problem with interference that people here also have

if you think my gameplay is good or average, there is literally no point discussing this, because what I'm gonna say here just makes sense because my gameplay is completely abnormal, way more than people with this same problem, like I said, I >>have<< to use 200 dpi, it is not my preference, if I use 400 dpi or above I literally can't click on the desktop icons, I had to lower my dpi over the years due to this problem

so ok, if you are considering that I have the issue and I'm not ret@rded, so it is not a skill issue but a "interference" or whatever you want to call it, and you know that my gameplay is completely abnormal and people can't reproduce it even if they try it, it becomes pretty simple

because I tested with 2 guys at a gaming cafe, we played on the same pc, they could play 10x better than me without any problem and they were average players, while I had the same gameplay that I had on every other pc I tried, which is extremely below average gameplay, and >impossible for someone to reproduce<

so if it is not skill issue and they could play normally without any problem at the same place, on the same pc, with the same mouse, same keyboard, monitor, configs etc, getting scores 10x better than me while being average players, if we are considering that I play that bad because of interference and not because skill issue, it becomes pretty clear where the problem is comming from, don't you agree?

if you are still considering that it could be hardware/software related in my case, even tho that 2 different people were playing on the exact same setup I was playing (like I said, same pc, same mouse, same keyboard, same monitor, same game, same config etc) could you explain how that could be possible?

with this test, there are only 2 options left for you to consider, either the problem doesn't exist and I just play really bad, being the worst player in the world or I cause interference when I touch the mouse and the keyboard, if you think something different I would like to understand the reason

I did ask you questions and as it was so important I addressed yours, kindly reciprocate. Thank you.

I didn't understand what you meant, you want me to answer your questions?

about recording a liveplay: I have lot of liveplays but I didn't get it what you want with that because it is literally impossible perceiving input lag with human eyes, how could you notice if my cursor has 200ms delay by looking at my hand movement? I can link you a lot of liveplays I have ofc but you won't find anything different with my hands from a normal person gameplay

about the mobos: I don't know, what I can say is that I tried lot of different brands, most of the pcs I tried had completely different specs but and like I said, this is completely irrelevant since other people don't have any problem using the same pc as me, I thought saying that I tried more than 20 pcs would be enough for you to stop considering being something like that, that's why I didn't answer

about what I think is the cause in my specific case: I don't "think" it is something because I already confirmed it, it is the body, and I didn't answer that because it was also pretty obvious

[giggio10]

“I have to use 200dpi because my mouse has no precision, if you could take a look at the 2 videos I linked in that reply, I think you would understand better what I'm saying, my cursor looks like I'm using 3k dpi but I'm using 200dpi” so I assume you use windows mouse speed at 6/11, try 3 firstly.

What dpi you prefer to use is of little use unfortunately, everyone is different as are once again other variables, like usb port, nvcp settings, windows settings etc. also when I have a working PC without this issue years ago, I didn’t like 6/11 then either, so when I see people saying it’s the best setting, I can’t relate to that at all.

“input lag is one thing, floaty mouse is another thing” possibly, but also can very well be one and the same.
A mouse can feel floaty when the input is delayed by perceivable milliseconds, on the other hand when the delay value is greater e.g. closer to a second or so delay, that can be also called either input delay or floaty mouse.. if anything, more so.

“not to mention that I already tried more than 20 pcs like I said, with different mouses, diferent keyboards, different monitors” quite a lot of people have tried a lot of various things, the reason we all have is because finding a modern rig without these issues is proving to be quite rare, and one wouldn’t continue searching once the solution was found.
Which is why the OP is in a seemly advantageous position for figuring out the causal factor(s).

After watching the videos you provided, it’s hard to give feedback without simultaneously seeing your hand to compare the movement in game to the physical movement as a comparison. Maybe try to capture both in the same capture and then see if you can slow-mo the playback to see if the on screen movement is in fact, delayed.

I started gaming around 2010 on a laptop, Lenovo.. I used to use the touchpad to play an MMO game with zero issue at an extremely high level, the game was DCUO. then I got in to FPS and got a PC instead with a mouse. Once again, zero issue immediately developed muscle memory on both touchpad and mouse, it was NOT a gradual improvement. (Game mechanics/ map knowledge on the other were are an entirely different story and learning curve).
The game I started with on PC was COD ghosts. I was max prestige with a 4+ kd.

So how we got from having a majority of correctly functioning and responsive devices with MINIMAL mouse drift if any to where we are now, where a majority of systems do not function as they used to and more importantly, should… is what we are all trying to figure out.

And it’s like you’ve said yourself, you’ve ruled out mouse, keyboard, monitors and 20 pcs being a factor, as have we all for years now. would you care to be more informative with exactly what hardware those pcs were using, that could be helpful with process of elimination. And as you’ve tried 20, should be very enlightening. Start with all the mobos those pcs contained.

And after everything you say you’ve tried, what do you currently think is the causal factor?

ok so, first we need to understand the most important thing that is: my gameplay when it comes to both mouse movement and keyboard delay is not just bad or really bad, it is completely abnormal and impossible for someone to reproduce <- this is the most important thing

I can prove and explain this with all the details but I would need to explain lot of things about the game I play, showing data, lot of screenshots, videos etc (I explained why I don't do this here in this comment viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13066&p=106313#p106313)

once you know that my gameplay is completely abnormal, way beyond being just bad or being laggy, there are 2 options, you can either consider that I'm just a ret@rd that can't even move a mouse properly but can do any other task outside the pc without any problem, like drawing, sports etc

or you can consider that I have the same problem with interference that people here also have

if you think my gameplay is good or average, there is literally no point discussing this, because what I'm gonna say here just makes sense because my gameplay is completely abnormal, way more than people with this same problem, like I said, I >>have<< to use 200 dpi, it is not my preference, if I use 400 dpi or above I literally can't click on the desktop icons, I had to lower my dpi over the years due to this problem

so ok, if you are considering that I have the issue and I'm not ret@rded, so it is not a skill issue but a "interference" or whatever you want to call it, and you know that my gameplay is completely abnormal and people can't reproduce it even if they try it, it becomes pretty simple

because I tested with 2 guys at a gaming cafe, we played on the same pc, they could play 10x better than me without any problem and they were average players, while I had the same gameplay that I had on every other pc I tried, which is extremely below average gameplay, and >impossible for someone to reproduce<

so if it is not skill issue and they could play normally without any problem at the same place, on the same pc, with the same mouse, same keyboard, monitor, configs etc, getting scores 10x better than me while being average players, if we are considering that I play that bad because of interference and not because skill issue, it becomes pretty clear where the problem is comming from, don't you agree?

if you are still considering that it could be hardware/software related in my case, even tho that 2 different people were playing on the exact same setup I was playing (like I said, same pc, same mouse, same keyboard, same monitor, same game, same config etc) could you explain how that could be possible?

with this test, there are only 2 options left for you to consider, either the problem doesn't exist and I just play really bad, being the worst player in the world or I cause interference when I touch the mouse and the keyboard, if you think something different I would like to understand the reason

I did ask you questions and as it was so important I addressed yours, kindly reciprocate. Thank you.

I didn't understand what you meant, you want me to answer your questions?

about recording a liveplay: I have lot of liveplays but I didn't get it what you want with that because it is literally impossible perceiving input lag with human eyes, how could you notice if my cursor has 200ms delay by looking at my hand movement? I can link you a lot of liveplays I have ofc but you won't find anything different with my hands from a normal person gameplay

about the mobos: I don't know, what I can say is that I tried lot of different brands, most of the pcs I tried had completely different specs but and like I said, this is completely irrelevant since other people don't have any problem using the same pc as me, I thought saying that I tried more than 20 pcs would be enough for you to stop considering being something like that, that's why I didn't answer

about what I think is the cause in my specific case: I don't "think" it is something because I already confirmed it, it is the body, and I didn't answer that because it was also pretty obvious

If you are so sure it's your body (even though you have no evidences) please go and create a post of your own, then you can talk about it there with people who wants to talk about it. I don't see why this would be related to my issue since different PCs behave differently on my case.

[giggio10]

Guys I have a very curious and weird finding:
(Just to make things clearer - 2017 PC = Good. 2020 PC = Lag/Floaty)

I went to a Gaming House yesterday, and it did feel more instant and consistent, so I thought hm, maybe what I have on my 2020 PC is just input lag, that although better than my 2017 PC in specs and FPS it still suffers from lag, prehaps due to some sort of incompatibility or manufacturing issue.

But then I figured this method of testing using drawings, I know it's not very reliable for a number of factors, but it is what I have. The test came from the fact that I used to play a drawing game on my 2017 PC, and it was very easy to draw. Then on my 2020 PC it is super hard to do so, feels unprecise, slow and all that.

The first image is from the Gaming House PC, and the other is from my 2020 PC:




Both were done in a fast manner, just going with the flow, think of how signatures are made, that's how I drew them. If it was done very slowly both would look the same, it's easy to be precise when you go slow. It's the same when it comes to aiming but you can't afford to go slow all the time in online FPS games, and it gets way worse when the target is moving... If I someday end up redoing that test I'll record it to analyze better, the idea came up on the fly.

Could this be caused solely by input lag or just that isn't enough to cause that amount of unprecision is what I'm wondering now...

Ah ok, so looks like you have my issue. Can go by lots of names like drift, icy, floaty, acceleration despite EPP disabled. But after talking to a Microsoft engineer about it a while ago, realised it's more like 'mouse coordinate accumulation'.
To clarify, next are my interpretations of that and not what the engineer said, he simply provided the tool to test to establish whether this was a windows issue or not. In the end we concluded it's not.

Side to side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQCOiNo ... Xm&index=8

Circular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2KIq5W ... Xm&index=5

That's what it looks like, cursor will move over time when in motion making it imprecise due to the accumulated coordinates as you can see in the second example, more negative value on the x axis compared to the y.

It's also much more obvious to observe the effect when drawing circles, for me repeatedly moving the physical mouse clockwise means the cursor will drift to the bottom right after a few (10-15) circles, whereas counter-clockwise results in the opposite effect and goes to the top right.

Since windows has been ruled out as the cause, leaves a few options behind as to why this is happening on some machines and others not. Can only speculate what the actual culprit is right now, so the fact you can produce both results on 2 separate machines right now is extremely valuable information for figuring out why this is happening. The more examples produced, the easier to find a common denominator.

Could you try the circle test on the gaming house PC and on the affected PC to further confirm.
I've also been thinking that this could be a CPU vs chipset handled USB issue, but looking at the examples of mobo's you provided neither of them have CPU handled USB ports, which debunks that theory if so. Although, one of the boards does have 2 USB controllers as opposed to 1, so maybe it's possible that so long as there's 2 controllers handling USB's this mitigates the issue, or could be a certain type of USB controller isn't working correctly, whereas the second asmedia USB controller is working as intended?

Would need to see how you get on drawing repeated circles to just really confirm that one machine is exhibiting the issue while the other isn't if that's ok.

It's a bit far from where I live, so I'll explore more with what I got right now, going there just to test this one thing isn't viable for me right now. But if I go there I will test it for sure. And yeah, my own PC has this issue too as shown in these videos you sent, which I always wondered if it was something normal that every PC has, or it was an issue.

Btw I'm starting to think that the issue is just on this specific PC, not anything electrical as my 2017 PC didn't have this lag and I used it in the same place as my 2020 PC. Best way to test that would be to bring a PC without the lag to test on my home, then I'd just buy a new one and be done with that.