CS2 Frametimes question

[SKILLEN]

I will use 145fps for example ,because most pcs can get and test.

Locked 145fps with 1% lows 145fps ,but doesnt feel like 145fps.

6.9ms=145fps ,but frame times are everywhere between 6.9 and 10-11ms (10ms =100fps) is this the reason why it doesn't feel 145fps even if 1% lows are 145 ?


Also if you start practice deathmatch and kick the bots 145 fps feels amazing and frame times doesn't move from 6.9ms .
On my pc ,if i add 6 bots frame times doesn't move from 6.9ms ,but it start some tearing and its not 145fps anymore.
If i add more than 6 bots frame times start to spike higher and tearing and fps feels worse.

[kyube]

I will use 145fps for example ,because most pcs can get and test.

Locked 145fps with 1% lows 145fps ,but doesnt feel like 145fps.

6.9ms=145fps ,but frame times are everywhere between 6.9 and 10-11ms (10ms =100fps) is this the reason why it doesn't feel 145fps even if 1% lows are 145 ?

Also if you start practice deathmatch and kick the bots 145 fps feels amazing and frame times doesn't move from 6.9ms .
On my pc ,if i add 6 bots frame times doesn't move from 6.9ms ,but it start some tearing and its not 145fps anymore.
If i add more than 6 bots frame times start to spike higher and tearing and fps feels worse.

As per the first google answer:

The frame time is defined as the amount of time it takes for a single frame to be displayed on the screen, in seconds. The formula for calculating frame time can be written as: frame time = 1000 / FPS
Where FPS stands for frames per second

6.9ms = 144fps
10ms = 100fps

I think you should research what 1% lows, 0.1% lows, 0.05% lows,... mean and what they represent in the input lag chain.
FPS Is a vague metric to begin with, you should be looking at time (ms) instead.
Refer to NVIDIA system latency blogs and the PresentMon library for more information. GamersNexus has a video with Intel GPU department engineer on this topic as well.

[SKILLEN]

I will use 145fps for example ,because most pcs can get and test.

Locked 145fps with 1% lows 145fps ,but doesnt feel like 145fps.

6.9ms=145fps ,but frame times are everywhere between 6.9 and 10-11ms (10ms =100fps) is this the reason why it doesn't feel 145fps even if 1% lows are 145 ?

Also if you start practice deathmatch and kick the bots 145 fps feels amazing and frame times doesn't move from 6.9ms .
On my pc ,if i add 6 bots frame times doesn't move from 6.9ms ,but it start some tearing and its not 145fps anymore.
If i add more than 6 bots frame times start to spike higher and tearing and fps feels worse.

As per the first google answer:

The frame time is defined as the amount of time it takes for a single frame to be displayed on the screen, in seconds. The formula for calculating frame time can be written as: frame time = 1000 / FPS
Where FPS stands for frames per second

6.9ms = 144fps
10ms = 100fps

I think you should research what 1% lows, 0.1% lows, 0.05% lows,... mean and what they represent in the input lag chain.
FPS Is a vague metric to begin with, you should be looking at time (ms) instead.
Refer to NVIDIA system latency blogs and the PresentMon library for more information. GamersNexus has a video with Intel GPU department engineer on this topic as well.

Yes i research a bit,but i dont understand it how frame times are 6.9ms which is 144fps ,but fps is 144 and frame times are 8ms for example ( it doesn't matter i dont understand it i needed yes or no for answer ) . You said its better to look at MS than the FPS,which is good info for me.


But i have another question. Stable 10ms frame time and 100fps with no bots or players in the server is great ,but when you add
for example 15bots or go casual ,the same stable 10ms frame time and 100fps are not the same. How is that possible what could be the reason ?

Anybody can go and test it for 1 minute.

[joseph_from_pilsen]

Frametimes are increased with jitter which in this shitty game messes with render because this game has no independent input on networking/render (no improvement over 20 years old source 1 which suffered from the same). And jitter is unavoidable, there are 2 sources of jitter - server sided and network sided. Both have the same impact - causing frametime spikes and messing with FPS.
Even if your connection is perfect with jitter 1-2ms max, there are still other few miliseconds of jitter done by server. You should notice that at stronger server the frametimes are better - if you have shit frametimes at valve official servers or some faceit servers /typically Frankfurt, London/, go to some stronk servers (warmupserver, some less congested faceit servers like France), the frametimes go suddenly better and game runs smoother.
If not, your problem is your internet as the jitter would be not server sided but network sided then.

I will make a longer elaborate about this issue, it started being obvious after some shitty autumn patch when this issue went trough roof, and reddit is full of these issues now. Currently waiting until i move to a multifibre connected flat fully, where i will have these things for my disposal:

1) good working fiber 1Gbps 2ms jitter max connection
2) shitty 1Gbps fiber 5-15ms jitter connection
3) 390hz acer
4) 7800X3D RTX4070S 500+ avg fps stronk rig
5) 13650HXoc RTX4060 300fps avg mediocre lappy

[SKILLEN]

Frametimes are increased with jitter which in this shitty game messes with render because this game has no independent input on networking/render (no improvement over 20 years old source 1 which suffered from the same). And jitter is unavoidable, there are 2 sources of jitter - server sided and network sided. Both have the same impact - causing frametime spikes and messing with FPS.
Even if your connection is perfect with jitter 1-2ms max, there are still other few miliseconds of jitter done by server. You should notice that at stronger server the frametimes are better - if you have shit frametimes at valve official servers or some faceit servers /typically Frankfurt, London/, go to some stronk servers (warmupserver, some less congested faceit servers like France), the frametimes go suddenly better and game runs smoother.
If not, your problem is your internet as the jitter would be not server sided but network sided then.

I will make a longer elaborate about this issue, it started being obvious after some shitty autumn patch when this issue went trough roof, and reddit is full of these issues now. Currently waiting until i move to a multifibre connected flat fully, where i will have these things for my disposal:

1) good working fiber 1Gbps 2ms jitter max connection
2) shitty 1Gbps fiber 10-15ms jitter connection
3) 390hz acer
4) 7800X3D RTX4070S 500+ avg fps stronk rig
5) 13650HXoc RTX4060 300fps avg mediocre lappy

Yes i notice immediately the game is running better in good community servers like warmup,but still is not how it should be.

Do you have some explanation why with the same fps,frametimes , the game is running worse and worse with increasing players or bots count in the server.

[joseph_from_pilsen]

Yes, the server performance is hindering client performance. ITs the same issue like in csgo, where at shitserver i had 70fps less because the game microlagged every time server variance/var went up. CS2 is similar. If server computes ticks late (and every server does, the threshold for "slow server frame" is absurd 15.6ms but even a half is terrible and adequate to 8ms network jitter which is shit), the client is waiting for server because it has nothing fresh to display and freezes the picture for a while as the CPU gets hogged - once when it lags server ssided and once more when it catches up with actual game. At my 7800X3D i have frametime spikes up 12 ms at somehow good servers but up to 80ms at valve shitty dm or mm. So its 500fps avg but with occasional 100fps frametimes in the better case, and with 50fps in the worse with hard freezes. I call them server sided aim punches. And yesterday they lost me a game at faceit, 2 times server punched me when trading ally in critical moment freezing my aim in middle of aiming. Faceit France... 100 winrate, Faceit netherlands... 100 winrate... Faceit Frankfurt... 33 percent winrate last month. And only Frankfurt has such annoying red gaps in netgraph and so many red frametime spikes.

[BumFlannel]

What are you using to cap your frame rate?

The in game frame cap sucks and always ends up giving you a frame rate lower than your cap that bounces around causing shit frame times. In my case with a 7950X and 7900XTX in a 5v5 official match with fps uncapped I can push an average of about 600fps depending on the map. The frame times are nasty though because the game is dropping fps by large amounts multiple times per second and it makes the game look low fps and micro stuttery.

My fps in 5v5 maps never drops below my refresh rate of 360hz, but if I cap to 360 using the in game cap my average will now be jumping between 320 and 360 giving again bad frame time and stutter, even though uncapped my fps will never drop below 360.

If I uncap in game and use the cap in the AMD driver I will get a solid 360fps with rock solid frame times.

The main issue with this game though is it's incredibly difficult to get smooth performance at high fps. You need a PC capable of high enough average fps that the huge frame time spikes won't drop you below your refresh rate. So if you have a 240hz monitor and want smooth gameplay you need a PC that can handle like 400 to 500fps average. You basically have to brute force like twice the actual fps you want to target to get a smooth experience, which is ridiculous.

However there's another phantom issue where your fps is high as usual, you're using the driver cap, frame times are solid, yet you can see and feel the game chugging. Frame rate looks low, mouse is sluggish, motion clarity is like looking through a frosted glass window (even on my qd OLED). The game just randomly does this is there eia no explanation for it.

[JimCarry]

What are you using to cap your frame rate?

The in game frame cap sucks and always ends up giving you a frame rate lower than your cap that bounces around causing shit frame times. In my case with a 7950X and 7900XTX in a 5v5 official match with fps uncapped I can push an average of about 600fps depending on the map. The frame times are nasty though because the game is dropping fps by large amounts multiple times per second and it makes the game look low fps and micro stuttery.

My fps in 5v5 maps never drops below my refresh rate of 360hz, but if I cap to 360 using the in game cap my average will now be jumping between 320 and 360 giving again bad frame time and stutter, even though uncapped my fps will never drop below 360.

If I uncap in game and use the cap in the AMD driver I will get a solid 360fps with rock solid frame times.

The main issue with this game though is it's incredibly difficult to get smooth performance at high fps. You need a PC capable of high enough average fps that the huge frame time spikes won't drop you below your refresh rate. So if you have a 240hz monitor and want smooth gameplay you need a PC that can handle like 400 to 500fps average. You basically have to brute force like twice the actual fps you want to target to get a smooth experience, which is ridiculous.

However there's another phantom issue where your fps is high as usual, you're using the driver cap, frame times are solid, yet you can see and feel the game chugging. Frame rate looks low, mouse is sluggish, motion clarity is like looking through a frosted glass window (even on my qd OLED). The game just randomly does this is there eia no explanation for it.

so i have average 550 fps from the cs2 benchmark map and i am using 240 hertz monitor,my fps_max is 0 and i dont touch anything in driver am i ok ?

[SKILLEN]

What are you using to cap your frame rate?

The in game frame cap sucks and always ends up giving you a frame rate lower than your cap that bounces around causing shit frame times. In my case with a 7950X and 7900XTX in a 5v5 official match with fps uncapped I can push an average of about 600fps depending on the map. The frame times are nasty though because the game is dropping fps by large amounts multiple times per second and it makes the game look low fps and micro stuttery.

My fps in 5v5 maps never drops below my refresh rate of 360hz, but if I cap to 360 using the in game cap my average will now be jumping between 320 and 360 giving again bad frame time and stutter, even though uncapped my fps will never drop below 360.

If I uncap in game and use the cap in the AMD driver I will get a solid 360fps with rock solid frame times.

The main issue with this game though is it's incredibly difficult to get smooth performance at high fps. You need a PC capable of high enough average fps that the huge frame time spikes won't drop you below your refresh rate. So if you have a 240hz monitor and want smooth gameplay you need a PC that can handle like 400 to 500fps average. You basically have to brute force like twice the actual fps you want to target to get a smooth experience, which is ridiculous.

However there's another phantom issue where your fps is high as usual, you're using the driver cap, frame times are solid, yet you can see and feel the game chugging. Frame rate looks low, mouse is sluggish, motion clarity is like looking through a frosted glass window (even on my qd OLED). The game just randomly does this is there eia no explanation for it.

I use only in game fps_max ,everything else gives me more input lag. Now im testing with fps_max 145 ,because it doesn't drop below 142/3 and i can get P1 144fps even in deathmatch so i can test things. Thats why i think fps its not the problem,something with the game is wrong ,because if you are alone or 2-3 people in the server its smooth even with 100fps.When there are more people in the server - screen tearing appear ,mouse start to feel heavy and this is with exactly the same FPS and 1%fps.

Today i tried valorant its so smooth with 144 and 300fps nothing like cs.

[BumFlannel]

What are you using to cap your frame rate?

The in game frame cap sucks and always ends up giving you a frame rate lower than your cap that bounces around causing shit frame times. In my case with a 7950X and 7900XTX in a 5v5 official match with fps uncapped I can push an average of about 600fps depending on the map. The frame times are nasty though because the game is dropping fps by large amounts multiple times per second and it makes the game look low fps and micro stuttery.

My fps in 5v5 maps never drops below my refresh rate of 360hz, but if I cap to 360 using the in game cap my average will now be jumping between 320 and 360 giving again bad frame time and stutter, even though uncapped my fps will never drop below 360.

If I uncap in game and use the cap in the AMD driver I will get a solid 360fps with rock solid frame times.

The main issue with this game though is it's incredibly difficult to get smooth performance at high fps. You need a PC capable of high enough average fps that the huge frame time spikes won't drop you below your refresh rate. So if you have a 240hz monitor and want smooth gameplay you need a PC that can handle like 400 to 500fps average. You basically have to brute force like twice the actual fps you want to target to get a smooth experience, which is ridiculous.

However there's another phantom issue where your fps is high as usual, you're using the driver cap, frame times are solid, yet you can see and feel the game chugging. Frame rate looks low, mouse is sluggish, motion clarity is like looking through a frosted glass window (even on my qd OLED). The game just randomly does this is there eia no explanation for it.

so i have average 550 fps from the cs2 benchmark map and i am using 240 hertz monitor,my fps_max is 0 and i dont touch anything in driver am i ok ?

You should get the smoothest experience uncapped (try both 0, 999) in game and capped to 240hz in your driver. That's my experience at least...but its not 100%. As mentioned before even if you're getting 240fps and solid frame times the game still inexplicably looks low frame, gets crap motion clarity and input feel horrible. Basically capping in driver is as smooth as you can possible get, but it still leaves a lot to be desired, especially if you have a 240hz monitor, average of 400 and 1% lows dropping below 240.

Sometimes the game looks and feels smooth as butter in a DM server with fps uncapped and for some reason I'm only pushing 140-200fps with bad frame times when I should be pushing double that. Then another time ill have much higher fps and the game is chugging. CS2 is a pure anomaly.