could the new 720p 720hz oled reasonably have been 720p 1080hz?

[kyube]

Well thanks for the reply. I'm not sure why chief says 1ms is too high for crt beam sim.

I believe you've misunderstood Chief's claims in regards to software BFI ("CRT Beam simulator")
The MPRT, and thus eye-tracked motion clarity, is limited by the refresh rate / frequency of the signal yet again.
Having a 1000Hz OLED would net you 1ms MPRT at any refresh rate you'd like using software BFI
Though you'd have to quote the exact comment Chief made for me to be able to give you a more concrete answer

So i think it's just a generality when he says stuff like gtg needs to be all 0 at all times

When he says "GtG=0", he means microsecond-levels of G2G RT's (found on OLED), which allow the display to be purely limited by the MPRT (refresh rate / frequency of the signal) itself when it comes to eye-tracked motion handling at <1000px/s.

I would have assumed the market is bigger when there are a hundred gaming displays for each office monitor.

I'm basing it from info found: viewtopic.php?t=13880&sid=8a4d15baf64c6 ... 10#p109955

[purplemelon1]

Well thanks for the reply. I'm not sure why chief says 1ms is too high for crt beam sim.

I believe you've misunderstood Chief's claims in regards to software BFI ("CRT Beam simulator")
The MPRT, and thus eye-tracked motion clarity, is limited by the refresh rate / frequency of the signal yet again.
Having a 1000Hz OLED would net you 1ms MPRT at any refresh rate you'd like using software BFI
Though you'd have to quote the exact comment Chief made for me to be able to give you a more concrete answer

Originally i thought the claim was from the first crt beam article. Maybe it was there 10 months ago but has been since removed. Users found it useable even on mini leds which have worse than usual gtg times.

Right now the only indicator on the articles is in https://blurbusters.com/massive-upgrade ... or-office/
"To understand pixel response better, here’s a camera shutter analogy:
GtG behaves similarly to a shutter slowly opening / slowly closing.
MPRT behaves similarly to a shutter already fully open."

The most recent explanations is this convo. https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckTAA/commen ... ?context=3

Or if you prefer old reddit and direct link to the specific comment. https://old.reddit.com/r/FuckTAA/commen ... t/ngjjv1c/

Two quotes specifically.

"LCD GtG can add extra blur, but that's extra blurring above-and-beyond Blur Busters Law. Remember 1ms GtG is 50% of frametime of 500fps 500Hz, so GtG is a pretty big blur contributor when GtG is a big % of frametime. "
And
"GtG near 0 as possible. Even 1ms GtG is half refreshtime of 500Hz and double the motion blur of LCD at >500Hz, so 500Hz OLED has about same motion blur as 1000Hz LCD. "

This latter part only makes sense to me if you add mrpt 1ms + 1ms gtg to a 2ms frametime. Aka 500fps.

[purplemelon1]

Ist last piece of frametime is why i say it's probably a general rule rather than an absolute and why you never knew it either.

In theory a 5000hz oled (which is a frame time of 0.2ms) with with a gtg of 0.2ms would total a have a smear to 0.4ms of visuals. Or 2500fps.
However in actual practice the 10-90%gtg time is what happens most of the time. There by being the most visible. So it is only a true smear of 0.03ms which is a non issue.

Meaning a 5000hz oled would look have trails like a neo g8 at 240hz. (Obviously 5000fps would be like a still picture . 5000fps would be so fast and hard to track i doubt anyone would actually care.

Also i realize all this time i have been using the word imperceptible when i really meant it's a minor artifact that people wont care about.

Earlier i did the math saying a 480hz oled is equivalent to 437fps with 0.2ms gtg times. However that would only actually be true for like 2 pixels on screen at a time. In reality 0.03 might not even round it down to 479fps true clarity.

[kyube]

In theory a 5000hz oled (which is a frame time of 0.2ms) with with a gtg of 0.2ms would total a have a smear to 0.4ms of visuals. Or 2500fps.
However in actual practice the 10-90%gtg time is what happens most of the time. There by being the most visible. So it is only a true smear of 0.03ms which is a non issue.

You have clearly misunderstood my explanation again. MPRT & G2G RT's don't have that type of relation as you've (mis)understood it.
Re-read my posts.
MPRT is the end goal value your display's G2G RT's (represented with heatmaps of 0–255 range) should achieve for perfect representation of the refresh rate.
G2G_RT =< MPRT means you have more headroom. Nothing more, nothing less.
This means that OLED's G2G RT's are "perfect" for >2000 Hz (2kHz) refresh rate.

Meaning a 5000hz oled would look have trails like a neo g8 at 240hz . 5000fps would be so fast and hard to track i doubt anyone would actually care.

The stroboscopic isn't eliminated by 5k FPS @ 5kHz refresh rate, neither is eye-tracked motion clarity during fast flick-shots.
No, it wouldn't look like that at all (speaking only on the perspective of eye-tracked motion quality)
It depends on the content's physical speed.

[purplemelon1]

In theory a 5000hz oled (which is a frame time of 0.2ms) with with a gtg of 0.2ms would total a have a smear to 0.4ms of visuals. Or 2500fps.
However in actual practice the 10-90%gtg time is what happens most of the time. There by being the most visible. So it is only a true smear of 0.03ms which is a non issue.

You have clearly misunderstood my explanation again. MPRT & G2G RT's don't have that type of relation as you've understood it.
Re-read my posts.

Meaning a 5000hz oled would look have trails like a neo g8 at 240hz . 5000fps would be so fast and hard to track i doubt anyone would actually care.

The stroboscopic isn't eliminated by 5k FPS @ 5kHz refresh rate, neither is eye-tracked motion clarity during fast flick-shots.
No, it wouldn't look like that at all (speaking only on the perspective of eye-tracked motion quality)
It depends on the content's physical speed.

i was using this at this as the base logic. ""GtG near 0 as possible. Even 1ms GtG is half refreshtime of 500Hz and double the motion blur of LCD at >500Hz, so 500Hz OLED has about same motion blur as 1000Hz LCD. " - Mark R./ Chief blur bluster

Im not sure about pixel eye tracked movement. I only know the chief himself says he tops out around 3000px/s ufo test. I assume this is on a 1080p display since the test itself is 1080p. To eye track and see it clearly. Personally i think i would top out around 5000 to 6000px s. I would need a standard to compare against the average.

[kyube]

i was using this at this as the base logic. ""GtG near 0 as possible. Even 1ms GtG is half refreshtime of 500Hz and double the motion blur of LCD at >500Hz, so 500Hz OLED has about same motion blur as 1000Hz LCD. " Mark.

He means 3-digit microsecond-levels of G2G RT's to encapsulate his dream 1ms MPRT (1kHz) display.
If certain gray-to-gray transitions are ~1ms G2G RT on a f=500Hz display (which is MPRT=2ms), you are still within the window the refresh rate requires and thus representing 500Hz "perfectly"

If you want a more easier to understand explanation:
OLED is "true 500Hz representation" (due to G2G_RT < MPRT target being always true)
LCD's are "fake 500Hz representation" (due to G2G_RT > MPRT scenario in a majority of cases being true)
NOTE: "Fake" doesn't imply interpolation akin to the 1st gen Eizo, just for the sake of explanation.

I assume his LCD comment refers to the un-even G2G RT performance of LCD's
TN's — bad rise, good fall;
IPS — good rise, bad fall;
VA — darker transitions tend to suffer, but can be OLED-like in terms of refresh rate representation, such as the INNOCN 27G1S)

I think his LCD vs OLED assessments are somewhat... oddly worded.

You can compare "GtG=0" displays, such as OLEDs vs LCD's which have speedy G2G RT values (most if not all within the MPRT window), such as:
Omen X 25 (at 240Hz)
ASUS PG27AQN (at 240hz instead of native 360Hz),
INNCON 27G1S (with nerfed contrast)
ASUS PG248QP or the new 610Hz Rapid-TN's (at ~300-360Hz should be close if not identical to OLED's of the same refresh rate in terms of eye-tracked motion blur)

As you've noticed, these are a minority in a already minor market (gaming displays), hence why he extrapolates that LCD's are slower than OLED due to this small subset of good LCD's.

Of course, these are my assumption on his wording and his reasoning.

[purplemelon1]

Mm. Well thanks for the lengthy explanantions. Still not sure about the shutterspeed comparisons. I guess he just needs to clarify they both work at the same time unlike a camera.

So difficult to know what's best. I'd rather get a 4k 400hz display even if TN. Yet there's no indication of that stuff. Atleast 1440p 500 exists. Really need apple to release something with 1440p 720hz to really push the industry. Sigh. Preaching to the choir but i really hope https://blurblusters.com/120vs480 reaches one of those ergonomics orgs. The NFL and other sports organizations would be very interested if high refreshes help. Concussions easily make displays more sensitive to use.

[purplemelon1]

What the helll kyube. Turns out i was right.
posting.php?mode=quote&p=116844
Gtg is additive to mrpt. But mainly for motion clarity. Not motion performance.

[kyube]

What the helll kyube. Turns out i was right.
viewtopic.php?t=14764
Gtg is additive to mprt. But mainly for motion clarity. Not motion performance.

It's additive, in the sense of total display latency and negatively affecting overall eye-tracked motion performance, yes.
This is usually only true in a particular G2G RT range in which the particular LCD subtype is worse at.
It doesn't hold true for the majority of other (non-weak) combinations of G2G RT values.
However, you are still limited by the actual MPRT (measured in milliseconds, inverse of refresh rate) and velocity of content itself (measured in Px/s) for enhancing eye-tracked motion performance.

In OLED's case, whose response times are always G2G<MPRT across every combination of G2G values, you're always representing the refresh rate truthfully.

For example:
On a 720 Hz OLED, a object moving at 720 Px/s on your screen will be 1ms MPRT.
On a 720 Hz OLED, a object moving at 1440 Px/s on your screen will be 2ms MPRT.
...
etc.

This is only true for OLED, because OLED doesn't have any G2G RT limit up to 3000Hz.
Yes, you could technically represent 3000Hz (3kHz) without any negative image artifacts ("ghosting") on OLED.

“Motion performance” is a bit ambiguous in phrasing.
Do you mean eye-tracked or fixed-gaze? The infograph I've posted in the link you've provided encompasses all possible scenarios of what one should consider "motion performance"

Or, a bit more broadly put — dynamic content handling

[purplemelon1]

Thanks for the quick reply
Discorz (or... Someone) on reddit was the one who distinguished motion clarity (track) and motion performance (fixed gaze). At the end of the day with strobing you are limited by the base fps. At the time they felt there was a lot of posts about taking photos tracking ufos/frogs. Non important stuff.