All games have massive Frame Rate Judder.

[Jbinn]

I shouldn't need VSYNC or frame limiters to enjoy my games

If you're going to disable the thing which syncs frames to your display's refresh rate, don't complain when things are out of sync and juddering.

It doesn't matter if I use VSYNC because even when I get 200fps in a game VSYNC dips below 60fps for no reason and causes stutter.

It doesn't happen for no reason.
Your video shows that you have the graphics settings up higher than your system can handle, if the goal is to have smooth gameplay.

Also frame rate caps helps but when I use them the stutter is still there the only way frame rate caps work is if I run it in windowed mode and again it drops below 60fps for no reason just like VSYNC and causes a stutter every now and then (even in games where I get huge fps.)

I only suggested a framerate cap because sometimes I find that frame pacing and/or latency is improved with a cap somewhere between your refresh rate and 2x the refresh rate.
E.g. a 65 FPS cap on a 60Hz display. With some games where your performance might be in excess of 120 FPS uncapped, they run better with a framerate cap in place - even though V-Sync should be taking care of that.

I don't think you need to be dealing with framerate caps because your issue is clearly that your framerate is dropping too low.
The reason I mentioned it is because it's another thing people suggested you try, which wasn't being used in the video you posted.

I did everything you asked I made the video less compressed, I made it 1080p/60fps, I used OSD and put all the info on there you asked for...

You did some of what was suggested, so the new video does give us an idea of why you're seeing stuttering.
Though you got the overlay working in your video, you seem to have ignored all the advice given on how to reduce or eliminate stutter, while coming back here to complain that it stutters.

There's no mystery here, other than the fact that you think that things should magically work differently from how they do.
You're like the people in that massive topic on the GeForce forums who are pairing up 900-series GPUs with an inadequate CPU and blaming NVIDIA when the GPU cannot be fully utilized.

I've physicaly compared my PC next to someone elses, I've watched videos and compared them with the SAME settings and my games are NOT smooth this is NOT normal from what I've seen.

You've compared against a PC with a GPU approximately 50% faster than yours, on a 144Hz display. It's no surprise that it ran smoother.
You seem to be more focused on making comparisons, finding videos to post, and complaining, than working to actually solve the problem.

IT also doesn't explain why my fps drops below 60fps with VSYNC on even when I'm way beyond 60fps with it off. It also doesn't explain how when I cap my FPS @ 60 I get the same stuttering I do when its not capped just with less tearing.

Your video showed it dropping below 60 FPS with V-Sync off and GPU load at 100%.
You have the graphics settings turned up higher than your GPU can handle for smooth gameplay.
GPU usage should never be hitting 100% if you're wanting smooth gameplay on a fixed refresh rate monitor.

I guess I'm beating a dead horse but I'm not buying into this being a normal thing

You don't have to "buy into it".
It's a fact that anything other than 60 FPS will judder on a 60Hz fixed refresh-rate display. There's no debating it.

The only thing that may differ is people's subjective impression of how that is running. If you never game with V-Sync on, or you always use triple-buffering or run in windowed mode, or you're used to console gaming, maybe you won't notice that judder because that's just what you're used to.
But it's there, and the only fix is to either have a framerate which is 60 FPS with good frame pacing 100% of the time, or to have a variable Refresh Rate Display.

The latter is a far better solution to the problem, the only issue is that it's an additional expense for most of us right now.
In my case, the main issue is not the expense, but the fact that none of the displays I want (OLED) currently support the feature.

AT this point:
VSYNC is not an option

Then your only option is a FreeSync monitor.
Or dumping AMD and getting a G-Sync monitor.

How come I can go on my XBOX 360 and enjoy it with no tearing or stutter but I go on my brand new PC with over 100fps yet its a tearing/stuttering mess that honestly makes me sick to stomach because of how bad it's.

Different expectations and different input methods I guess.
When you're sitting 10ft from a laggy TV with a wireless controller, you don't see these problems nearly as much as sitting 2-3ft from a low latency monitor using a mouse.
Maybe you're also less concerned about performance when you paid less than $300 instead of $1000+

The awful performance of games on that generation of console hardware is what got me to sell everything and move back to PC as my primary platform again.
'80s-'00s were PC gaming for me, '00-'07 was mainly console gaming, and since then I've been 100% PC gaming and wouldn't consider a console again.
The shift from primarily 60 FPS targeted console games to 30 FPS games that frequently dropped below that was unacceptable to me.

The reason I'm not listening fully is because this happens in games where I only use 50% of my CPU and like 70% of my GPU (world of warships.) What CPU is better than a 6600K @ 4.5GHZ? I don't see how a PC with the same CPU as mine and a GPU that only gets 15-20 more frames than mine on avg is 50% faster? I don't understand how my GPU being at 100% is a bad thing wouldn't I want that to fully utilize my GPU? Also even when I'm getting over 60fps BF4 still stutters it not like when it falls below 60fps it magically stutters it happens even in the 100's when I'm not dropping frames. I'm not ignoring any advice because nobody has told me to try anything other than "just deal it, it's normal." this isn't normal, if this was normal nobody would PC game trust me lol its really really bad, I'm not overly picky I play on consoles for cry out loud, I'm not stupid I know how variable refresh works and I know about all of that, but I've never heard of or experienced stutter like this from a gaming PC, this doesn't seem normal, watching my videos doesn't seem normal. I'd personally rather have 30fps console gaming over this right now that's how bad it's and I hate consoles for the most part.

So you're 100% certain that if I get a variable refresh rate display it will fix my issue? Also are there any tests that I can do or anything further to make it more apparent? I'm telling you my frame rate is not causing it I mean dropping below 60 atleast it doesn't matter if I'm getting 30 or 80 it looks stuttery( anything between say 30-120fps is stuttery, after that they are smoother the higher the better. If I get anything less than 120fps in any game its basically unplayable without vsync. I can record a video showing 100+fps on bf4 with the same stutter ill make the graph 100ms and you will see. I can't believe anyone on here has what I'm seeing and is happy with it, if that's the case then I guess I'm just OCD because I literally get a headache from the stutter its so bad, I have to force myself to play games...

If anyone has anymore suggestions or advice just list it ill try it and return back. I'm really trying to believe this is normal but I honestly don't want to lol if that's the case I might be done with PC gaming :-/

[Sparky]

presentmon will work, but you'll have to compile the source code, here's an article on it: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-C ... -UWP-Games The output is a CSV, so you can either dump that straight on pastebin or make a graph of it and post that.

Fraps is another option but you said you were having problems with that.

[Jbinn]

presentmon will work, here's an article on it: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-C ... -UWP-Games

The output is a CSV, so you can either dump that straight on pastebin or make a graph of it and post that. Fraps is another option but you said you were having problems with that.

I'll give it a go thanks for everyones patience but you have to remember I'm busy and theres a lot of try here so I might miss a few things lol. Like I said if this is normal then I guess back to consoles I go... IF this isn't normal I can fix it hopefully and be happy again lol.

[Glide]

The reason I'm not listening fully is because this happens in games where I only use 50% of my CPU and like 70% of my GPU (world of warships.)

If you have one core at 100% and three cores at 33% your average CPU usage will be 50%.
That's why you need to be looking at per-core CPU usage and not an average.
And a core doesn't even have to be 100% loaded to be holding back game performance, usually performance issues can start to appear when you hit about 80-90% CPU usage on any one core because games are time-sensitive and some operations won't load fully load a core. Or they will, but it will be for such a short time that a monitoring application polling at 100ms is not fast enough to catch it.

What CPU is better than a 6600K @ 4.5GHZ?

The question is not "what CPU is better?" the question is "is this CPU enough?".
There are some games which are going to be CPU-limited on all current hardware.
However without monitoring your CPU and GPU usage properly, there's no way to determine where the problem lies.

I don't understand how my GPU being at 100% is a bad thing wouldn't I want that to fully utilize my GPU?

Because you have a fixed refresh-rate display and need to hit a minimum framerate target.
If your GPU ever hits 100% load, that means it's being pushed too hard and is not able to reach that target.

Also even when I'm getting over 60fps BF4 still stutters it not like when it falls below 60fps it magically stutters it happens even in the 100's when I'm not dropping frames.

You have a 60Hz fixed refresh-rate display.
100 FPS does not sync up to 60Hz. 100 FPS must judder on a 60Hz display.
It's impossible for it to not judder. Get that into your head. 100 FPS is a bad thing on a 60Hz display if your priority is to eliminate judder.

The only acceptable framerate for judder-free gaming on a 60Hz display is a constant 60 FPS.
Not above 60 or below it, your framerate must match your refresh rate at all times, and you need to have V-Sync on. No exceptions.
Any time it deviates from that, it is juddering.

When you're only polling the framerate every 500ms, it's very easy to have a game juddering and not see that reflected in the stats. The faster the polling rate, the more accurate that will be.
Afterburner can only poll at up to 100ms. (at one point there was a test version which could apparently poll every 1ms, but that never seemed to be released)
FRAPS will record every frame in a benchmark - but it only monitors framerate/frame time, not CPU and GPU usage.

I'm not ignoring any advice because nobody has told me to try anything other than "just deal it, it's normal." this isn't normal

It is normal to experience judder when your framerate is all over the place like your video was showing.
With some exceptions where it's the engine at fault (e.g. Fallout 4) games don't judder on my PC because I turn down the graphics settings appropriately for what my GPU can handle so that it never drops below 60.
And when it reaches the point that I can't do that any more, I upgrade.

Your system seems like it should be capable of doing that with BF4 for example, but only if you choose appropriate settings for it.
So far you've ignored all of our advice and are still running with V-Sync off and the graphics options turned up.

Try recording a video with everything set to the very minimum possible except resolution, running in full-screen exclusive mode, and with V-Sync on.
It shouldn't have to run at the minimum settings, but that's where you need to be starting, since you've ignored everything else up to this point.

I'd personally rather have 30fps console gaming over this right now that's how bad it's and I hate consoles for the most part.

Then why are you so insistent on avoiding locking the framerate to 60 FPS and turning down the graphic settings in-game so that you stay above 60 at all times?

So you're 100% certain that if I get a variable refresh rate display it will fix my issue?

I can't say for sure that it will fix all of your problems, but so far you've been unwilling to try anything else, and it will fix at least one cause of juddering.

If I get anything less than 120fps in any game its basically unplayable without vsync. I can record a video showing 100+fps on bf4 with the same judder ill make the graph 100ms and you will see.

You have a 60Hz display.
Running games at 100 FPS without judder is not an option for you.
You need a 100Hz display for that.
If you want to run games without V-Sync, then you need a variable refresh-rate display.

If anyone is not following that, then they either don't care about judder, or they don't notice it.
Since you do notice judder, you need to take the appropriate steps to eliminate it.

The appropriate steps are not arguing with the people trying to help you, because that won't change anything.

presentmon will work, but you'll have to compile the source code, here's an article on it: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-C ... -UWP-Games The output is a CSV, so you can either dump that straight on pastebin or make a graph of it and post that.
Fraps is another option but you said you were having problems with that.

A FRAPS benchmark is a lot easier to do, and you can use a tool like FRAFS with the resulting file to get nice frame-time graphs.
However a benchmark like that is not necessary at this point. The previous video clearly show us why he's experiencing stuttering even with Afterburner only polling at 500ms and not displaying all the relevant information.

[Jbinn]

The reason I'm not listening fully is because this happens in games where I only use 50% of my CPU and like 70% of my GPU (world of warships.)

If you have one core at 100% and three cores at 33% your average CPU usage will be 50%.
That's why you need to be looking at per-core CPU usage and not an average.
And a core doesn't even have to be 100% loaded to be holding back game performance, usually performance issues can start to appear when you hit about 80-90% CPU usage on any one core because games are time-sensitive and some operations won't load fully load a core. Or they will, but it will be for such a short time that a monitoring application polling at 100ms is not fast enough to catch it.

What CPU is better than a 6600K @ 4.5GHZ?

The question is not "what CPU is better?" the question is "is this CPU enough?".
There are some games which are going to be CPU-limited on all current hardware.
However without monitoring your CPU and GPU usage properly, there's no way to determine where the problem lies.

I don't understand how my GPU being at 100% is a bad thing wouldn't I want that to fully utilize my GPU?

Because you have a fixed refresh-rate display and need to hit a minimum framerate target.
If your GPU ever hits 100% load, that means it's being pushed too hard and is not able to reach that target.

Also even when I'm getting over 60fps BF4 still stutters it not like when it falls below 60fps it magically stutters it happens even in the 100's when I'm not dropping frames.

You have a 60Hz fixed refresh-rate display.
100 FPS does not sync up to 60Hz. 100 FPS must judder on a 60Hz display.
It's impossible for it to not judder. Get that into your head. 100 FPS is a bad thing on a 60Hz display if your priority is to eliminate judder.

The only acceptable framerate for judder-free gaming on a 60Hz display is a constant 60 FPS.
Not above 60 or below it, your framerate must match your refresh rate at all times, and you need to have V-Sync on. No exceptions.
Any time it deviates from that, it is juddering.

When you're only polling the framerate every 500ms, it's very easy to have a game juddering and not see that reflected in the stats. The faster the polling rate, the more accurate that will be.
Afterburner can only poll at up to 100ms. (at one point there was a test version which could apparently poll every 1ms, but that never seemed to be released)
FRAPS will record every frame in a benchmark - but it only monitors framerate/frame time, not CPU and GPU usage.

I'm not ignoring any advice because nobody has told me to try anything other than "just deal it, it's normal." this isn't normal

It is normal to experience judder when your framerate is all over the place like your video was showing.
With some exceptions where it's the engine at fault (e.g. Fallout 4) games don't judder on my PC because I turn down the graphics settings appropriately for what my GPU can handle so that it never drops below 60.
And when it reaches the point that I can't do that any more, I upgrade.

Your system seems like it should be capable of doing that with BF4 for example, but only if you choose appropriate settings for it.
So far you've ignored all of our advice and are still running with V-Sync off and the graphics options turned up.

Try recording a video with everything set to the very minimum possible except resolution, running in full-screen exclusive mode, and with V-Sync on.
It shouldn't have to run at the minimum settings, but that's where you need to be starting, since you've ignored everything else up to this point.

I'd personally rather have 30fps console gaming over this right now that's how bad it's and I hate consoles for the most part.

Then why are you so insistent on avoiding locking the framerate to 60 FPS and turning down the graphic settings in-game so that you stay above 60 at all times?

So you're 100% certain that if I get a variable refresh rate display it will fix my issue?

I can't say for sure that it will fix all of your problems, but so far you've been unwilling to try anything else, and it will fix at least one cause of juddering.

If I get anything less than 120fps in any game its basically unplayable without vsync. I can record a video showing 100+fps on bf4 with the same judder ill make the graph 100ms and you will see.

You have a 60Hz display.
Running games at 100 FPS without judder is not an option for you.
You need a 100Hz display for that.
If you want to run games without V-Sync, then you need a variable refresh-rate display.

If anyone is not following that, then they either don't care about judder, or they don't notice it.
Since you do notice judder, you need to take the appropriate steps to eliminate it.

The appropriate steps are not arguing with the people trying to help you, because that won't change anything.

presentmon will work, but you'll have to compile the source code, here's an article on it: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-C ... -UWP-Games The output is a CSV, so you can either dump that straight on pastebin or make a graph of it and post that.
Fraps is another option but you said you were having problems with that.

A FRAPS benchmark is a lot easier to do, and you can use a tool like FRAFS with the resulting file to get nice frame-time graphs.
However a benchmark like that is not necessary at this point. The previous video clearly show us why he's experiencing stuttering even with Afterburner only polling at 500ms and not displaying all the relevant information.

I understand all of that but what you're not getting is even when I change settings to all low, and when I only use half my CPU/GPU games STILL stutter doesn't matter if I'm using 20% or 100% doesn't matter if I'm getting 40 frames or 100 frames, it doesn't matter if I'm running lowest or highest settings it's still there. I'm not arguing with anyone I'm stating whats happening on my side and what I see, you say 100% usage is bad well it doesn't make a difference with the stutter, you say run on lower settings, this also makes no difference. The video I posted before might show high usage and fluctuating frames but on other games with low usage and steady frames it still stutters so no I don't think we've found an apparent reason yet based off my last video. I will use presentmon or fraps and try to get a better reading, but as of now I'm still not convinced it has anything to do with my load or my settings. On battlefield 4 multiplayer I get an avg of 100-120fps and it still stutters even with lower usage. On ARMA 3 I use 50% of my gPU and CPU and hold a steady 50-60fps on medium-high settings and it still stutters. I'm not arguing that this has something to do with my refresh rate and my FPS because VSYNC fixes it and capping frames does as well to some extent but I know for a fact that this much stutter is not normal, if people don't notice this when they play their games and experience what I'm experiencing then they are literally blind lol.

World of warships uses like half of my GPU and CPU I get a steady 75fps and it stutters worse than battlefield does... Rust I get 60-100fps and low CPU/GPU usage and it stutters worse than both games. What I don't get is why when I use VSYNC and I'm getting over 100fps in a game steady it drops below 60fps a lot even though I know the game doesn't drop anywhere near 60fps. For instance if I play World fo Warships I get 75fps the whole time with almost zero fps drops every yet with VSYNC it drops to 59fps constantly and stutters... I'm wondering if my GPU and monitor have a problem or maybe ASROCK motherboards just have issues with graphics cards since that's the only board I've used? How can I lower CPU and GPU usage? if I lower my settings my FPS just goes up and my usage stays the same? I can't use VSYNC in BF4 and CSGO so how is that going to help me?

also when I record with fraps for some unknown reason its just a black screen, will this affect the benchmark? also how do I run the benchmark I tried to figure it out but I can't it says press f10 to benchmark but when I do nothing happens.

[Glide]

What I don't get is why when I use VSYNC and I'm getting over 100fps in a game steady it drops below 60fps a lot even though I know the game doesn't drop anywhere near 60fps.

There are no tolerances for framerate drops with double-buffered V-Sync. If it even drops slightly below 60 it will stutter badly.
This is especially true on AMD where they don't have driver-level adaptive v-sync support.

almost zero fps drops

Almost isn't zero. You have to set things up so that you never drop a frame, not almost never.

if I lower my settings my FPS just goes up and my usage stays the same?

Because you disabled V-Sync.

I can't use VSYNC in BF4 and CSGO so how is that going to help me?

If you refuse to even TRY V-Sync, you need to get a FreeSync monitor.

I understand all of that but [...] I get an avg of 100-120fps [...] a steady 50-60fps [...] I get a steady 75fps [...] I get 60-100fps

You just aren't listening at all, are you?
Your framerate must be equal to the refresh rate.
EQUAL. Not higher or lower, EQUAL.

If you turn V-Sync off it will stutter. NO MATTER WHAT ELSE YOU DO.
If it's not synchronized to the refresh rate, it will never be smooth. That's the SYNC part of V-SYNC.
The severity of it can be affected by many other factors but the only way to eliminate stutter on your 60Hz display is to USE V-SYNC.
V-Sync is only one part of the solution, but if you don't have V-Sync on, you won't have smooth gameplay.

also when I record with fraps for some unknown reason its just a black screen, will this affect the benchmark? also how do I run the benchmark I tried to figure it out but I can't it says press f10 to benchmark but when I do nothing happens.

You don't need to record a video with FRAPS running, record a FRAPS benchmark with it and load the CSV file it creates into FRAFS, then post the graph.
Not that it matters, it's only going to confirm what we've already been telling you.

Probably the only thing that would be worthwhile at this point would be to re-run that section of Battlefield 4 again, but this time with the per-core CPU usage and 100ms polling set in Afterburner. The graphics should be at their lowest settings with the exception of resolution, the game should be set to full-screen mode (not windowed) with V-Sync ON.
It doesn't matter if this is or is not how you would normally play the game, the point is to see if it's still stuttering or not under those conditions.
You could optionally set say a 70 FPS cap in the driver and reduce the flip queue to 1 (if that's possible with current AMD drivers?) but those shouldn't be necessary.

[Jbinn]

I'll still try the FRAPS thing but my #1 favorite game is RUST and I havn't been able to play it soley because of this issue... Why does this video run so smooth? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WmjSqt5STw, Fraps doesn't have an option for VSYNC so I know hes not using it. When I play or record rust even if I cap @ 60fps its not this smooth compare to this video I made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MykNQRelBuM

You can easily tell from his video to mine that his is night and day smooth and its not due to VSYNC and its not due to a FPS cap. If my problem is normal then why can he play RUST so smoothly. IT also has nothing to do with shadowplay because shadowplay did the same thing for me. Also if this problem I'm having is normal why have I never noticed or had it in RUST before? or any game for that matter. This is something that has just happened in my last build before then I never had it played rust fine all day silky smooth and all of my other games.

Also adding VSYNC, FPS CAP or lowering settings doesn't really drop GPU usage, it's 100% in a lot of my games... CPU usually is around 50-60% maybe? So how the hell do I lower my GPU usage if its such a bad thing?

[Glide]

This is something that has just happened in my last build

Well you did switch from NVIDIA to AMD.

Also adding VSYNC, FPS CAP or lowering settings doesn't really drop GPU usage, it's 100% in a lot of my games... CPU usually is around 50-60% maybe? So how the hell do I lower my GPU usage if its such a bad thing?

Then you need to start turning down graphics options.
You have them set too high for your GPU.

[Jbinn]

This is something that has just happened in my last build

Well you did switch from NVIDIA to AMD.

Also adding VSYNC, FPS CAP or lowering settings doesn't really drop GPU usage, it's 100% in a lot of my games... CPU usually is around 50-60% maybe? So how the hell do I lower my GPU usage if its such a bad thing?

Then you need to start turning down graphics options.
You have them set too high for your GPU.

Whats "you did switch from NVIDIA to AMD." suppose to mean? If you're insinuating that because I own AMD I am seeing this issue, that's not what I was saying... I had a 970 before the 390 that also had similar issues.

Ok I turned down the graphics got less usage on GPU but still have stutters, so this did nothing for me... I've never had issues with max GPU or CPU usage.

You guys seem to be ignoring my comparison videos... where I post someone running a game with same FPS/settings but getting a 10x smoother experience, still think this is normal? I don't... if it was then all youtube videos and computers would have what I have and they don't from what I've seen. I can't believe so many people are saying this is normal... I've never hard of this from anyone else I've never had this issue before I've used computers that don't have this issue, youtube videos dont have the same stutter mine have with the same settings so something is obviously up. I'll be doing the fraps/presentmon benchmark we'll see I guess. If all else fails I'll try RMA'ing my GPU and buying a new monitor.

[lexlazootin]

No point RMAing when you're the issue...