CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

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mulz
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by mulz » 11 Mar 2018, 16:28

These kind of problems are so frustrating. It's not a network problem I'm quite sure of that.

I have had similar problems in the past. My problems started after the win 10 fall creators update. Reinstalling windows didn't fix anything. Seems the problem was nvidia drivers. Windows 10 tried to automatically download the latest nvidia drivers for my gtx 770. Here's what I did: I once more reinstalled my win10 and had my network cable unplugged. Then I installed the older nvidia drivers (368.39) I had been using before. Then I made some registry tweak which denied win10 to update to the newest nvidia drivers, because otherwise it would update by itself and everything would be crap again. I had to take the gtx 770 hardware id and tell windows to NOT do any driver updates for that device. Then I plugged network cable back in and let windows update itself. This worked for me.

For some reason, when windows always downloaded automatically the newest nvidia drivers and I would uninstall them with DDU and then install the older drivers, everything would be crap anyway with these older drivers and seemed that nothing I did could make the game feel like back to normal. Only windows 10 full reinstall and the method I explained above helped.

Misha1337
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by Misha1337 » 18 Mar 2018, 17:03

BTW the OP isnt wrong at all i have the same monitor and kinda the same specs and i got the exact same problem.

all the fixes on the internet i tried and like he said the problem goes away for like one or 2 days then it back with the same exact symptoms. and i have found any fix yet

mello
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by mello » 19 Mar 2018, 15:19

Misha1337 wrote:BTW the OP isnt wrong at all i have the same monitor and kinda the same specs and i got the exact same problem.
OP is a wrong in a sense that he has completely disregarded a possibility that his internet connection is the culprit.
Misha1337 wrote: all the fixes on the internet i tried and like he said the problem goes away for like one or 2 days then it back with the same exact symptoms. and i have found any fix yet
There is no fix for that. Problems are occuring because of network congestion (happens regardless of your ping and bandwidth) and network performence fluctuations.

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lexlazootin
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by lexlazootin » 20 Mar 2018, 08:27

"CSGO feels like 60hz"
"feels like more dpi"
"non smooth aiming"

internet related

This whole post is annoying me way more then it should.

mello
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by mello » 20 Mar 2018, 10:56

@lexlazootin, i have explained multiple times that in 99% of cases when people are having problems with their in-game performance (it varies by a large margin) it is strictly because of network congestion (regardless of ping/bandwidth) and network performance fluctuations. I thought that it should be obvious by now. But people just dont want to understand and accept it. Internet performance affects literally everything you see and feel in the game.

I have been playing counter-strike since 1999/2000 (and at a pro level at one point), and i can tell you right now that i have seen this "problem" being described by thousands of people worldwide, and no one has ever found a solution to fix it. Thats because it is something that no one can change on their side, and internet performence is the only thing that is changing constantly (based on overall network usage within ISP's network) and depending on your situation it may or may not have a negative impact on your in-game performance.

The truth might be annoying to the people like you who never has seen and experienced this problem, but thats okay.
Not everyone is blessed with knowledge and a skill to understand a complexity of things.
Besides, the answer to question "what is the solution?" -> "there is no solution" doesn't sound optimistic and is hard to swallow for most people.

This is so ridiculous that people even forget to use common sense and analyze what is actually happening, but again "there is no solution", its just not something they want to hear. I was also guilty of that, i was trying to "mask" the problem (even when i knew from the start what the problem was) by upgrading my hardware (including cables, router/network cables, adding UPS), buying better mouse, better monitor, better mouse pad, better keyboard, better headphones, ... basically trying everything i can, trying to offset the negative in-game performence i was getting, but in the end it changed literally nothing, because if you are bottlenecked by your inet connection you are basically f***** 4 life (at least as far as fps gaming is concerned), unless of course you move to a difference place (hoping it will be better there) or somehow get a preferential treatment within your ISP network (priority packet handling / lower error correction algorithms).

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lexlazootin
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by lexlazootin » 20 Mar 2018, 21:38

mello wrote:Internet performance affects literally everything you see and feel in the game.
Show me in ANY test were internet effects your mouse movement. Show me how the internet causes FPS drops and stutters, Show me proof of anything you are saying. If the problem you think exist does exist don't you think we would have video prove by now? surely someone would of recorded a perfect example by of this problem you think everyone has? someone would of recorded tons of clips with their "shitty high-weave" bs internet were they are getting 0 packet loss and missing everything?

This should go without saying but if your problem has never been shown to make a effect, you should need proof before posting it. We can't have a r0ach going around prescribing bs. Please don't just describe the problem to me again, just show me some proof.

//Offtopic

I think it might actually be slow ram issue, I've seen how faster ram raises minimum fps values, maybe his slow single channel memory is causing fps dips and causing jitteryness when peaking corners.

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RealNC
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by RealNC » 20 Mar 2018, 21:53

mello wrote:@lexlazootin, i have explained multiple times that in 99% of cases when people are having problems with their in-game performance (it varies by a large margin) it is strictly because of network congestion (regardless of ping/bandwidth) and network performance fluctuations.
Mouse look and frame rate are not affected by the network. For something to "feel like 60Hz", you need laggy mouse look and low frame rate.
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mello
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by mello » 21 Mar 2018, 07:32

lexlazootin wrote: Show me in ANY test were internet effects your mouse movement.
RealNC wrote: Mouse look and frame rate are not affected by the network. For something to "feel like 60Hz", you need laggy mouse look and low frame rate.
There are none because no one bothered to investigate. Besides, as i said many times you cant really test it, in the same way you test every piece of your hardware, simply because you have no control over your internet connection and you cant measure its performance by numbers and a graph (as far as UDP gaming packets are concerned).

At this point you can only see and feel the changes happening. It does affect mouse movement, but not in the sense both of you think it does. It is because you dont really understand game mechanics (movement, aiming, recoil) in relation to rates that players have (and if their connection can utilize these rates at time they are playing), hit registration and player models positioning (when and how they are drawn on your screen) based on server-client calculations which are time sensitive, and all of it is directly related to your internet connection performance.

The best way to describe how mouse movement is affected by internet connection is to tell you that it is only happening in fights when you are either near the enemy players or when you are shooting at them / exchanging fire. The feeling you get can be described in these terms:

- non smooth aiming
- laggy feel
- recoil is affected
- tracking enemies is affected

It feels like you normal mouse movements are not doing what you want them to do. It feels like you sudenly got input lag problem / massive fps drop (without fps drop) or a internet lag (without ping changing). Something is literally choking, directly impairing your aiming /recoil control / enemy tracking. And when that happens hit registration is also affected, peaking corners feels sluggish, among other things.

How do you know that it is internet problem ? Because the situation and feeling changes. Sometimes every mouse movement feels perfect and effortless, but you play few hours later and it feels considerably worse, which is directly negatively impacting your in-game performance. The only thing that changes constantly is network performance (in relation to gaming / UDP packets handling), nothing on your end (system/hardware) changes.
lexlazootin wrote: Show me how the internet causes FPS drops and stutters.
It doesn't, but the feeling you get (in addition to what you see on your screen) is similar to FPS drops / stutters (caused on your end), that is why people are confused and they think something is wrong with their system/hardware.
lexlazootin wrote: Show me proof of anything you are saying.
Thousands of people have described this problem in many different ways over the years (and i play online since 1999/2000), and there is still no fix for it. There are also few threads here on blurbusters (started by different people) describing exactly the same issue, and no one has fixed this problem yet. And you know why people are starting threads in these forums ? Because they thought exactly the same thing i did in the past, that they will be able to "mask" the problem and offset the negative in-game performance they were getting, simply by buying new monitor with more Hz (and/or reduce input lag like symptoms). But you can't do anything when you are bottlenecked by your inet connection.

Read this thread (YES! 59 pages, see what ideas people come up with..) for example. You will think that people are crazy and they need seek medical attention... but its all because of in-game incosistency caused by network congestion (regardless of ping/bandwidth) and network performance fluctuations. It is a very serious and frustrating problem for many fps players around the world.
lexlazootin wrote: If the problem you think exist does exist don't you think we would have video prove by now? surely someone would of recorded a perfect example by of this problem you think everyone has? someone would of recorded tons of clips with their "shitty high-weave" bs internet were they are getting 0 packet loss and missing everything?
Not everyone has this problem, because not everyone is affected by network congestion, at least not to the same degree. Every case is different. Video will not show you this, you will just think that someone has just poor aim, poor reflexes, or other players are just playing better and the person that recorded the video is looking for excuses for his bad in-game performance.
lexlazootin wrote: This should go without saying but if your problem has never been shown to make a effect, you should need proof before posting it.
Did i mention that i play since 1999/2000 and i have seen thousands of people reporting this problem in many different ways over the years ? And no one has found a solution ? Did anyone found a solution for a few people here on forums when they were looking for help ? Oh wait...

Proof is there, you just refuse to see it, because as i mentioned before, you have never seen and experienced this problem, so you have literally no idea what people are describing / talking about.
lexlazootin wrote: We can't have a r0ach going around prescribing bs. Please don't just describe the problem to me again, just show me some proof.
I will just quote myself:

"Networking is a very complex thing (even more than most people realize), reported bandwidth and reported latency are not only things that matter. And you can't measure the network performance (in relation to gaming results) that will show up to you as a score, not in the same way as you can test a CPU, GPU, RAM, monitor (response times / input lag), that in the end of the test the results will show up to you as a number. You also can't isolate the internet for your tests, because thousands of people are using it at the same time in your area, using the same cables. On the other hand you can isolate the CPU, GPU, RAM, monitor and make an objective test because no one is using it except you. As for an outside interferences, there are none affecting your hardware tests and the tests will be consistent after several runs (or at least with very minor differences), and basically anyone can do it. Internet performance (in relation to gaming) can be incosistent and unpredictable do to network performance fluctuations (load and usage is constanly changing), so doing an isolated "study" would be also very hard to do. On top of that you have line parameters that are also constantly changing based on network usage, and this is why people might experience a huge variance in their in online performance, just because sometimes they are being bottlenecked and the other times they are not. And because of all these factors, how the gaming "feels like" is the only thing that people have, when they are experiencing the problems with their online gaming. They have an experience with these inconsistencies and fluctuations and they know when it feels good and when it feels worse, but somehow they fail to put two and two together and identify the network as the culprit. On the other hand, when you will identify the network as a culprit, there is no fix, solution or workaround it, which it definitely not what people want to hear."

You just fail to realize just how complex the problem is. And if you still think that internet performance has nothing to do with with how your online gaming feels like, then just disconnect internet and try playing online, see how it will work out for you... Internet connection is the single most important thing when it comes to fps gaming (time sensitive packets), you might have high end set up, gaming mouse, gaming keyboard, gaming headset and high end gaming monitor, but none of it will make a difference if you have a bad internet connection that is bottlenecking you. A pro player playing in your home will no longer be a pro player, because a bad connection will basically make him handicapped and he will not be able to play at elite level anymore.

Also, in the past it has already been proven that when you have higher packet priority (and/or lower error correction algorithms) in your ISP's network in relation to other people in your area, the problem is either vastly reduced or is becoming a non-issue.
lexlazootin wrote: //Offtopic

I think it might actually be slow ram issue, I've seen how faster ram raises minimum fps values, maybe his slow single channel memory is causing fps dips and causing jitteryness when peaking corners.
And you still dont get it...
Read this again, this is what crankz said:
"CSGO feels like 60hz"
"Basically i have 200-300fps, 144 hz and good ping and my game still feels like crap."
"When ever i re-install windows or game (sometimes) it feels good for a few days then it goes back to the same"
"Please guys could u help me? this is skillcaping my game so much"
"I think its hardware related... cuz some days it feels good, others feels really crap... "
"My game just feels heavy as fuck like i dont have +200 fps or 144hz, mouse feels laggy, peaking corners feels sluggish... when i reinstall windows it feels good for a few days then it goes back to crap... Also sometimes when i reinstall csgo it feels good for a few days then boom... or if i keep my pc off for some days it gets good then again bad...
I have +2500 elo at faceit, playing on a high team and my stats are ultra inconsistent cuz i cant play at this level when ever i have lags."
ALL of that literally screams BAD INTERNET / BAD HITREG. This is the only thing that can make you feel like you are skill capped. And all his "fixes" feel also random because sometimes they seem to work, and sometimes it changes nothing, this is placebo because your internet connection performance (network congestion / UDP packets handling) changes constantly. The problem itself also seem to go away and show up randomly... which is caused by network performance fluctuations.

One other thing that network congestion often does (UDP packets slow/late delivery and/or delivery out of order) is that enemies can see you faster than you can see them, basically you see them too late while they already had a chance to react to seeing your model. In my case it looks like this, when i am not being bottlenecked by my inet connection, i have a clear cut reflex advantage over other players (including low skilled, avarage skilled and high skilled players) because of my skill, and in most situations they are already dead, even before they are able to hit fire button. But when i am clearly being bottlenecked by my inet connection (lets forget about hit registration problems and non smooth aiming / laggy feel for a second..) then it looks like my reaction time is cut in 1/2 or by 3/4, and enemies actually have more time to react to my player model before i can react. This creates a massive problem (apart from bad hit reg) because enemies are able to shoot at me in situations when they never should be able to. This, in combination with bad hit registration (even when clearly shooting first) i have problems killing all kind of players, including avarage/low skilled ones, and i am losing in situations where i should never lose. Basically, when i am being bottlenecked by my inet connection, i often struggle even against lower skilled players (spray and pray mode on..), because this problem causes me to being skill capped.
Last edited by mello on 21 Mar 2018, 10:32, edited 3 times in total.

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RealNC
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by RealNC » 21 Mar 2018, 07:45

None of this would make it "feel like 60Hz."

Again: the only things that would make a game "feel like 60Hz" are a) mouse look, and b) frame rate.
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mello
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by mello » 21 Mar 2018, 09:16

RealNC wrote:None of this would make it "feel like 60Hz."

Again: the only things that would make a game "feel like 60Hz" are a) mouse look, and b) frame rate.
How so ? This is how he described it (wording) and he is not wrong in what he said. This may look / feel like you are getting massive fps drop / decrease in hz because of decrease in smoothness (and it directly affects how your aiming feels -> incorrectly interpreted by people as "mouse lag" or "input lag"), but it is much more than just that. If it would be just a massive fps drop / hz drop, then you would be able to get used to it (predictability factor) and play around it, the same way you can get used to playing on 60Hz (even when switching from 144Hz or 240Hz), and the same way people are able (and were always able) to play competitively and even at a high level even on old/slow pc/laptops with low fps & big fps fluctuations. If it would be just an fps/hz drop (or something hardware related) then it would not have such a negative effect on gaming performance (actuall results in the game) and making people desperate, at least not in the way that people are describing it. Funny how no one complains about this when playing on LAN, but only online... :mrgreen:

Its a network lag / choking effect (related to how UDP packets are handled or lack of proper handling). Your connection just cant handle the packets its receiving atm and/or packets are late / out of order, and this causes in-game inconsistencies in what is happening. Besides this is only one of the things he said, see my quote of his words to get a broader idea of this problem, the way he described it.

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