any chances to get crt motion quality at 60hz? [YES: it is!]

[Chief Blur Buster]

Does that apply to 30fps video as well? Do blurays and youtube videos on a crt monitor all have a double image effect? If that is the case the big transistion to lcd monitors makes a lot more sense. Or is there a way to make crt monitors more like crt tv's?

CRT monitors have always behaved like CRT TVs when they both run at the same refresh rate.

Yes, 30fps@60Hz always has a double image effect on CRT and plasma, whether it's video or games.

framerate at half Hz on impulsed/strobed displays = double image effect
framerate at third Hz on impulsed/strobed displays = triple image effect
framerate at quarter Hz on impulsed/strobed displays = quad image effect

This is simply because your eyes are continually moving between all the repeat refreshes. As you track moving eyes on moving objects on a screen, your eyes are in a different position during the next refresh cycle. So the repeat refresh will appear at different positions in the eye. So that's why you see a double-edge effect during 30fps@60Hz impulsed (CRT) or during 60fps@120Hz impulsed (LightBoost or CRT), as examples.

-- Example: View http://www.testufo.com on a CRT or LightBoost to understand the "multi image effect".
It also happens during PWM dimming (rapid-flashing method of brightness dimming -- e.g. adjust certain LED-backlit LCD to 0% brightness while viewing http://www.testufo.com), e.g. 60fps@180Hz PWM dimming = triple image effect.
-- Continuously-shining (flickerfree) displays don't show multi image effects, they just show more motion blur during longer same-frame visibility times (e.g. Lower framerates at http://www.testufo.com just simply has more motion blur. View on a PWM-free LCD, or at 100% brightness).

[Haste]

Does that apply to 30fps video as well? Do blurays and youtube videos on a crt monitor all have a double image effect? If that is the case the big transistion to lcd monitors makes a lot more sense. Or is there a way to make crt monitors more like crt tv's?

Only acceptable way is to feed the CRT with the same frame rate as the refresh rate. I use smooth video project to watch videos on mine.
Here is a guide to set it up: http://www.overclock.net/t/1385468/svp- ... ion-thread

[Blurless]

Thank you both, I never realized that. I don't know whether or not I should be happy about finding out about all this, haha. It's an exciting time for monitors now but it is not long ago that any screen and any refresh rate was fine for me. Now I am finding out that there isn't a single screen in existence that does everything decently. Also, I am playing The Last of Us on ps3 and dealing with 20-30fps on my blurry lcd is actually hurting my enjoyment of the game and I am sure that a few months ago it would not have bothered me as much.

[masterotaku]

Thank you both, I never realized that. I don't know whether or not I should be happy about finding out about all this, haha. It's an exciting time for monitors now but it is not long ago that any screen and any refresh rate was fine for me. Now I am finding out that there isn't a single screen in existence that does everything decently.

I know how you feel. A year ago I was unaware of a lot of things, and still happy with my old 60Hz (OC up to 76Hz) Asus VW246H. But now I'm very sensitive to (not especially in this order):

- Motion blur (highest priority to eliminate, as I do a lot of eye tracking).
- Tearing (usually annoying, but bearable for the sake of input lag).
- Stuttering (I hate it, even more if it happens with vsync).
- Input lag (vsync at 120Hz is OK for me, but not OK at 60Hz (depends on the "KB+M vs controller" variable)).
- Contrast (I like deep blacks ).

I'm not sensitive to:

- Color accuracy (my color blindness allows me to not care a lot).

I don't know if I would like G-Sync. It's pretty clear to me that I will never go back to a sample-and-hold mode. Zero motion blur is the awesomest thing ever. If I get less fps, then I'll use less Hz (once I update my XL2411Z, because the MSTAR unit must be currently in a plane coming to me ).

[Haste]

I was always very sensible to the lack of motion clarity as long as I can remember. I could never get along with lcd displays. I scoured the net to see if there were others like me who had this issue. And all I could find was posts in forums stating that CRT is an old inferior technology or "you can't see more than 60fps".

There were some useful info here and there. For example I found about the sample and hold effect issue through wikipedia.
But in general it seemed to me like no one really cared about it.

I am greatly thankful to you, Mark, for what you're doing.
I hope this movement will get more momentum thanks to your dedication and passion. And that users will have access to more information and the media industry will come up with new technologies towards a more satisfactory experience in terms of motion portrayal and clarity.

[Chief Blur Buster]

And we're seeing manufacturers starting to recognize this, including NVIDIA (GSYNC, LightBoost, ULMB), ASUS (ROG PG278Q), BENQ (BENQ Blur Reduction), EIZO (Turbo240), Oculus (low-persistence OLED VR headset) -- there is a big boom in "Better Than 60Hz" tech ongoing (maybe not as fast as some of us would like; "hurry up already, GSYNC monitors!") -- but rapid now, compared to more than a decade of motion-quality stagnation in the LCD Dark Ages.

Thanks for the compliment! We've gone a LONG way since 2012, I believe.
Even if it's still only a fraction of 1% of a niche market, this is still better than feeling like being the "only" person in the world who cares!

[Haste]

Thanks for the compliment! We've gone a LONG way since 2012, I believe.
Even if it's still only a fraction of 1% of a niche market, this is still better than feeling like being the "only" person in the world who cares!

It sure is!

[Chief Blur Buster]

P.S. CRT-clarity 60Hz strobing is now finally here: http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=491

Be warned, it doesn't look nice if you don't like 60Hz CRT, but it's here now if your eyes are okay with 60Hz CRTs!

[vanden]

juste for fun ...

Test on 60Hz screen with low motion blur (for example CRT or BenQ Z series) :
- You can compare a native 60fps@60Hz video (1-2ms motion blur / No double Image effect / Low Flicker / and smooth) and a video 30fps@60Hz (1-2ms motion blur / dramatic Double Image effect / Low Flicker / and not smooth). This is the equivalent of "Frame Rate Compare" tests.
- You can also compare with 30fps+1BFI@60Hz video (1-2ms motion blur / No double Image effect / Very High Flicker / and smooth). 30fps@60Hz vs 30fps+1BFI@60Hz is the equivalent of "Black Frame Insertion" test.

Test on 60Hz screen with motion blur (most of LCD) :
- You can compare a native 60fps@60Hz video (16.7ms motion blur / No double Image effect / No Flicker / and smooth) and a video 30fps@60Hz (33.3ms motion blur / No double Image effect / No Flicker / and smooth).
- You can also compare with 30fps+1BFI@60Hz video (16.7ms motion blur / No Double Image effect / High Flicker / and smooth).


Test on 120Hz screen with low motion blur (for example CRT or All LCD with BenQ blur reduction / LightBoost / ULMB) :
-You can compare a Native 120fps@120Hz video (1-2ms motion blur / No double Image effect / No Flicker / and smooth) to a video 60fps@120Hz (1-2ms motion blur / Visible double Image effect / No Flicker / and not completely smooth) and a video 30fps@120Hz (1-2ms motion blur / Dramatic quadruple Image effect / No Flicker / and not smooth). This is the equivalent of "Frame Rate Compare" tests.
- You can also compare to the 60fps+1BFI@120Hz video (1-2ms motion blur / No double Image effect / Low Flicker / and smooth). 60fps@120Hz vs 60fps+1BFI@120Hz is the equivalent of "Black Frame Insertion" test with two UFOs. 30fps@120Hz vs 30fps+3BFI@120Hz is the equivalent of "Black Frame Insertion" test with four UFOs.

Test on 120Hz screen with motion blur (LCD 120-144Hz With No Motion Blur Reduction) :
- You can compare a Native 120fps@120Hz video (8.3ms motion blur / No Double Image effect / No Flicker / and smooth) to a video 60fps@120Hz (16.7ms motion blur / No Double Image effect / No Flicker / and smooth) and a video 30fps@120Hz (33.3ms motion blur / No Double Image effect / No Flicker / and smooth).
- You can also compare the 60fps+1BFI@120Hz video (8.3ms motion blur / No Double Image effect / No Flicker / and smooth). And also compare the 30fps+3BFI@120Hz video (8.3ms motion blur / No Double Image effect / High Flicker / and smooth).


The 60fps video was obtained by accelerating (x2.5) of the original 24fps video.
The 30fps video was obtained by selecting one frame on 2 of the 60fps video.
The 120fps video was obtained by interpolating (SVP-x2) of the 60fps video.