05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

[DaveN]

I get that those IPS monitors beat many TNs and come close to the best, but some of us just want the best advantage possible in a competitive scenario, and also don't mind the other disadvantages - so I really don't get the point of bashing peoples opinions, when they simply have a different focus.

I'm sitting on my 400€ and the mixed opinions combined with different reports of statistics really make it hard to come up with a decision.

Guess I can simply post the list of monitors which are in my price range. Maybe someone can help me out picking the best monitor for playing CSGO, where I can easily reach the 400fps cap.

Screenshot_1.png (241.45 KiB) Viewed 84852 times

I would really appreciate if someone could help me out making a little top 3 or 5 list for this selection of monitors - with csgo as the main focus.
Cheers!

[Chief Blur Buster]

I stay at 240Hz with 80 OD - do I still have 3,6ms if the fps are bellow 200? I dont use aadaptive sync or elmb. ANd same question with MSI, if the fps are bellow 200, the "faster" mode still prevents 3,2ms response time?

One thing to keep in mind is that GtG pixel response is sometimes more a visual consideration than a latency consideration.

Sure, the beginnings of the GtG curve is important to get those pesky photons to your eyeballs quicker, but that ripple hangover (coronas) is a lagging artifact, and the human eyes may see the lagged artifacts (e.g. coronas) and react with more lag despite GtG being faster.

The GtG curve shape matters -- it might be lower lag to an oscilloscope but higher lag to your human brain's subsystem because you're distracted by the lagged artifact (coronas). Or your brain notices those early photons instead. An oscilloscope is not a carbon copy of a human brain when it comes to GtG curves.

The photons from GtG hits the human eyes well before GtG 90% anyway. It's the artifacts that is more distracting to reaction time sometimes (e.g. seeing the coronas more than the actual object itself)

Everybody reacts differently to overdrive artifacts. Sometimes people don't care as much about coronas as the next guy -- Personally, I can tolerate approximately a faint 1%-3% corona if the rest of the motion blur is much better, but others can tolerate a ~10% or ~20% corona intensity. While others cannot tolerate even a faint 1% corona.

Photos (pursuit camera) can tell you that a corona exists. However, it doesn't tell you how a specific human reacts or gets distracted by. Sometimes less lag is more lag, and more lag is less lag, when it comes to the complexity of GtG curves, in real-world neurons firing from a human reaction stimuli to different parts of ghosted/corona'd motion.

This is why I am reluctant to say edicts / absolutisms relating to GtG annoyances. Otherwise, overdrive adjustments wouldn't need to exist...

My view for overdrive is...Adjust to your personal preference. For an ASUS TraceFree 80 recommendation, you might prefer an adjacent setting such as 60 or 100. See how you perform at different overdrive settings. I've seen some humans perform better at lower settings with other human perform better at higher settings. All legitimate on the same exact identical monitor!

My view for tests is... Communicate the test results but disclose the testing method (OD grid size, cutoff standard you choose, average vs spreadsheets), etc acknowledge limitations of testing.

(coronas, as in LCD Motion Artifacts, and nothing to do with COVID-19....)

[RLCSContender*]

I will ask simplier because I feel my previous post was ignored. Which monitor will be better if the fps are bellow 200?

MSI under 200hz is better because the tuning of its fastest overdrive setting was so good that you any framerate whether it's at 60hz, 120hz, 144hz, 165hz, 200hz with minimal or non-existent overshoot. People don 't think this is a big deal but this is a HUGE deal.

here's a point of reference 2.4ms input lag and 3ms response time at 60hz. The Nano LG 27GL850-b has an input lag of 13ms and 5ms response time at 60hz on its "faster" overdrive AND it will have more overshoot. With the MSI, 2.4ms input lag w/ a 3ms response time at 60hz w/ minimal/non-existent overshoot shatters ANY monitor.

basically the lower the FPS, the MSI is better. The higher the FPS however, the Asus is better because the higher the refresh rate and framerate, the more trivial G2G response time is. THe whole purpose of g2g response time in the context of gaming is the ability to have less motion blur while having low input lag, A higher refresh rate and ELMB-SYNC (on or off doesn't)basically takes care of that despite the Asus having less g2g average. Even without ELMB-SYNC on at 280hz, it's still faster than the fastest TN since the asus has better motion clarity and at these ridiculously high framerates, what the TN has such as g2g response time is redundant and really not necessary since at these high framerates, g2g starts to get redundant and not necessary.

I tell all the TN lovers here. Pick your poision

280hz asus at higher framerates. (higher FPS is where the asus has an advantage)
240hz MSI at lower framerates. (also at 240hz it's still fast enough to stand up to the high level TNs because the redundancy of g2g and at high refrehs rates due to excellent



MPRT+added motion clarity of 280hz refresh rate+ backlight strobing WITHOUT losing any form of freesync/gysnc is well suited at higher framerates and that is where the Asus has the advantage. Even the fastest TN in the world right now is still slower than the Asus and can easily be proven just by a side by side viewing

Even if a Tn monitor has 0.000001ms respones time at 240hz, the Asus is still faster because g2g averages become redundant and really

the MSI Mag or the Asus? I know the Asus with 280Hz with ELMB sync is faster but, actually for games with fps less than 200, its not even worth to use it. So I for Cod MW (when fps drops to even 150 in warzone, and in multi they are 200~) I stay at 240Hz with 80 OD - do I still have 3,6ms if the fps are bellow 200? I dont use aadaptive sync or elmb. ANd same question with MSI, if the fps are bellow 200, the "faster" mode still prevents 3,2ms response time?

even without elmb-sync, 280hz is still 280hz. The added motion clarity and at these ridiculously high framerates will mitigate any pixel smearing or motion blur despite only a 3.7-4.0 g2g average. Elmb-sync mitigate that even more(however, any form of freesync/g-sync compatibility does add input lag although it's really inconsequential if the framerate is synchronizing with the refresh rate anyway if g-sync compatibility is working. We are talkinga bout 0.2 ms here(snce the montior needs about .2-.4 ms to synchronize with your GPU. NOT noticeable, the trade off is, u wont' see tearing and u will have more motion clarity against fast moving objects Even if a TN monitor has a 0.000000000001 g2g average. basically, you have to be mindful of the trade offs with the Asus. In my opinion though, elmb-sync at high refresh rates/high frame rates is WORTH the trade off of slightly more latency, crosstalk, etc(and especially if the FPS is very high). So it's a matter of preference.

if however 240hz vs 240hz, (280hz is not used/elmb-sync is not used). The MSI is faster since 3ms>>4ms in response times.

Most people generally don't like to use the perks the asus has and that they are just happy that they have an IPS monitor at 240hz and don't want to sarcrifice any crosstalk, overshoot and trivial amounts of input lag. What they don't know is the beneficial trade off 280hz or elmb-sync has in the context of competitive gaming. I will trade crosstalk/trailing artifacts(which doesn't really show at 240hz-280hz anyway) with excellent MPRT(motion pixel response time)

there is a cutoff point though, 180hz and under, the crosstalk is just too aggressive and the MPRT isn't worth it anymore. The asus box claiming "the fastest monitor in the world" , they weren't joking. it really is, up until that 360hz Tn come out later this year.

[RLCSContender*]

also the MSi's fastest overdrive setting is its optimal gaming meta and doesnt' go higher therefore cannot reach 1ms response time . The asus has the 100 overdrive setting(i call it the YOLO setting)

the VG259qm/VG279qm has overdrive 100 and can EASILY reach 1ms(or under) although there will be enormous overshoot. If say you are drunk or just want to YOLO and just have fun, 100 overdrive is an option to have. at 240hz-280hz framerate though, 100 overdrive setting really isn't as bad as people think because the enormous overshoot isn't nearly as obvious at 240-280hz compared to 144hz.


I had it a draw between the MSI/Asus and the preferences of games you play will influence that decision. I don't play FPS titles and i'm a big proponent of console gaming which influenced me to pick the MSI over the asus. The games I play, faster pixel response times/higher refresh rate is redundant since it's not that necessary for Rocket league(the game i always play). As long as you can see the ball clearly when its going fast, that's generally good enough. it was already good enough at 165hz, i just wanted less input lag so chose the 240hz option(and also, the 250hz frame rate cap which made buying 240hz a no brainer). . You have to factor in the game you play and figure out when better hardware starts to get redundant and not necessary.

IPS is closing the gap against TN. The Asus/alienware21/MSI(and MAYBE the 4ms acer predator) are the only three IPS monitors that can stand up to the benq zowies, omenx 25s, nitro xf272s. The reason why people use TN such as benq is because it has gimmicks on its monitor "cross hair" or "enemy detection" "eye ball bluelight anti movements" or any gimmick that may help that person have an edge in FPS video games. I myself really find those gimmicks unnecessary, then again i don't play FPS titles so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

that 360hz g sync TN monitor though will probably save TN from goign out of business since IPS nowadays are catching u to the best TNs.

[axaro1]

even without elmb-sync, 280hz is still 280hz. The added motion clarity and at these ridiculously high framerates will mitigate any pixel smearing or motion blur despite only a 3.7-4.0 g2g average. Elmb-sync mitigate that even more(however, any form of freesync/g-sync compatibility does add input lag although it's really inconsequential if the framerate is synchronizing with the refresh rate anyway if g-sync compatibility is working. We are talkinga bout 0.2 ms here(snce the montior needs about .2-.4 ms to synchronize with your GPU. NOT noticeable, the trade off is, u wont' see tearing and u will have more motion clarity against fast moving objects Even if a TN monitor has a 0.000000000001 g2g average. basically, you have to be mindful of the trade offs with the Asus. In my opinion though, elmb-sync at high refresh rates/high frame rates is WORTH the trade off of slightly more latency, crosstalk, etc(and especially if the FPS is very high). So it's a matter of preference.

if however 240hz vs 240hz, (280hz is not used/elmb-sync is not used). The MSI is faster since 3ms>>4ms in response times.

Most people generally don't like to use the perks the asus has and that they are just happy that they have an IPS monitor at 240hz and is comp

Does the increased input lag from ELMB/ULMB come from not being able to cap the fps? Can ELMB-Sync deny the input lag caused by strobing if you cap the framerate for example at 277fps with the refresh rate set to 280hz?

[RLCSContender*]

even without elmb-sync, 280hz is still 280hz. The added motion clarity and at these ridiculously high framerates will mitigate any pixel smearing or motion blur despite only a 3.7-4.0 g2g average. Elmb-sync mitigate that even more(however, any form of freesync/g-sync compatibility does add input lag although it's really inconsequential if the framerate is synchronizing with the refresh rate anyway if g-sync compatibility is working. We are talkinga bout 0.2 ms here(snce the montior needs about .2-.4 ms to synchronize with your GPU. NOT noticeable, the trade off is, u wont' see tearing and u will have more motion clarity against fast moving objects Even if a TN monitor has a 0.000000000001 g2g average. basically, you have to be mindful of the trade offs with the Asus. In my opinion though, elmb-sync at high refresh rates/high frame rates is WORTH the trade off of slightly more latency, crosstalk, etc(and especially if the FPS is very high). So it's a matter of preference.

if however 240hz vs 240hz, (280hz is not used/elmb-sync is not used). The MSI is faster since 3ms>>4ms in response times.

Most people generally don't like to use the perks the asus has and that they are just happy that they have an IPS monitor at 240hz and is comp

Does the increased input lag from ELMB/ULMB come from not being able to cap the fps? Can ELMB-Sync deny the input lag caused by strobing if you cap the framerate for example at 277fps with the refresh rate set to 280hz?

not sure if Backlight strobing(ELMB) adds input lag. Chief knows the answer to that, I don't. What I do know is ELMB-SYNC does add slight input lag since it needs 0.2-0.4ms for the monitor to synchronize your GPU to its refresh rate.

the reason why people are claiming that there's nore "input lag" at 280hz vs 240hz is because the g2g average for the ASUS isn't fast enough to accommodate the 280hz refresh rate. refresh rate compliance is around 25-30% so smearing/ghosting will be there. HOWEVER, that's an oxymoron because the added +40hz refresh rate LOWERS the input lag and adds more motion clarity mitigating the 25-30% refresh rate compliance and the 0.2-0.4ms of added input lag adaptive sync gives for the monitor to synchronize the refresh rate with your GPU. it also prevents any form of "tearing" which makes things blurry when you move your camera. So you have to be mindful of the added benefits too.

People just assume "more input lag" "no thx jeff" "i don't want pixel smearing or crosstalk" "240hz is guud enuff for me". They don't know the benefits that outweigh/mitigate it and in my opinion, it the benefits does outweigh /mitigate the tradoffs you get and at these ridiculously high framerates/refresh rates, really IT'S NOT NOTICEABLE.

[AddictFPS]

I not have the ASUS 27" IPS 280Hz VG279QM, but since ELMB-Sync come to market, we know from serious reviews of TUF 2019 models like VG27AQ (TFTCentral, Rtings, ApertureGrille), that algoritm behavior apply double strobe all the time when ELMBSync is used together with VRR, to maintain the same bright at different frequencies.

Is so ridiculous, one technology that come "in teory" to made movement image quality more smooth, focused, sharp... more like old CRT, but end showing ugly double images that cause worst moving images that default non strobed, only can be named FATAL ERROR.

But, if this 280Hz model use different strobe behavior with ELMBSync+VRR, and do not apply double strobe to regulate bright, and regulate it just increasing and decreasing the backlight voltage, this can change all.

Someone know if also apply double strobe at all frequencies with VRR + ELMBSync ? Unfortunately TFTCentral review not show pictures about. Only one from oscilloscope at fixed frequency 280Hz, that not resolve any doubt about ELMBSync+VRR

Moreover, 240Hz monitors strobing at 240Hz, all of them show heavy crosstalk, caused by not have enought time to hide GtG transitions until next backlight flash illuminate again the pixel, and is needed reduce frequency to reduce crosstalk at acceptable levels. For instance Viewsonic XG270 show to much less crostalk at 224FPS/Hz compared to 240FPS/Hz, this small 16Hz reduction is fresh air to strobe quality. But the real high quality is at 100-120Hz. Maybe at 80Hz is even better, almost crosstalk free, but with 80Hz flicker maybe can start bother some people.

With 280Hz strobing at 280Hz, with the same GtG of 240Hz monitors, for sure result in similar or a bit increased crosstalk that 240Hz monitors strobing at 240Hz. But if settings use 280Hz scanout speed for strobing at 240Hz, for sure result in a small reduction in crosstalk compared with 240Hz monitor strobing at 240Hz, because we win 0.55ms (4.12-3.57) to help hide GtG transition.

Unfortunately, this VG279QM not allow single strobe at fixed frequencies under 120Hz, so advantages of low crosstalk at 100Hz respect 240Hz monitors are been locked by ASUS, incomprehensibly Ok, no problem, when i need buy 27" IPS FHD 200+Hz monitor, and due that i want the best single strobe settings available, i go straight to Viewsonic Elite XG270, because i not accept incomprehensible restrictions like this. I want 100Hz single strobe 100% crosstalk free, like old CRT, so this 280Hz model is useless for my, GameOver. Maybe in the future things change, if ASUS unlock single strobe.

Why monitor manufactures not open all frequencies range from 60 to 280 in single strobe mode ? is easy, one line firmware, ready ! i'm quite tired of this single strobe circus. Brands self limit the sales ! is realy absurd... I go straight to BlurBusters Approved monitor, no doubts ! 75-240 free range, and active request to Viewsonic for open also 50-75. User upgradeable firmware, none of the others 240/280Hz monitors have this feature, and if there are any bug in firmware, no way for easy fix, RMA party, no thx !

[RLCSContender*]

Those UFO tests are by no means an indication of gameplay. At.280hz elmb sync, of course there is crosstalk but its not noticeable due to the framerate and refresh rate going so fast

But the trade.off is excellent motion clarity. Trust me when i say this. From 240hz to 280hz, u wont see any crosstalk. The framerates from these high refresh rates does not apply the same way 44-144hz does. The high refresh rate will basically make ghosting? Tearing, crosstalk near inivisible.

When u strobe, try to ignore crosstalk but focus more on the alien. If the alien is crystal clear to see? Thats good enoufh. The excellent motion clarity will show moreso than the subtle crosstalk at high framerates.

[TheMadMan697]

I would like to thank @RLCScontender and others for the great information that has been compiled in this thread. I am using a 27GL850 at the moment which is a great monitor but I am curious to try one of these higher refresh monitors with backlight strobing as a second screen. I would like to get a 27" despite the low PPI.

The ViewSonic XG270 was looking perfect until I realised the response time of the panel doesn't seem to be that fast for non strobed use (Unsure if I will like the strobing until i try it) I found the newer Asus VG279QM which looks like it is a faster panel overall. The locked OD with ELMB enabled is putting me off the Asus a bit though as I wont be able to strobe effectively at lower refresh rates, The strobing is important to me as it is the main feature I want to try out. I have a 2080ti and 9900k so for the most part can push the high frame rates to avoid issues with the Asus Locked OD ( I mainly play Modern Warfare which I can push over 200 FPS at 1080P) The XG270 is still tempting because of its superior backlight strobing but It is about £62 more expensive than the Asus and with slow response time as far as I can see. I have seen some people describe the XG270 as glass like smooth at 120 or 144 Hz strobed and don't see anyone describe the Asus VG279QM this way. Does anyone know how these 2 compare when strobing at 200 FPS+?

If anyone has any advice for me please let me know. Perhaps I should wait for the next blur busters approved screen. (Does anyone know if there is anything in the pipeline?) Perhaps there are also some good high end 240Hz+ 27" TN panels with very good strobing that have gotten past my radar too. If anyone knows any please let me know, mostly I see reference to 24 or 25" versions which I am not looking for.

To throw another spanner in the works I just found the Acer Predator XB273GX in stock at amazon UK but I cant find any user feedback at all. The spec sheet does not mention any kind of backlight strobing so I think I am going to avoid this one.

[AddictFPS]

When compare VG279QM Vs XG270 response times, take in account that XG270 is 100% overshot free, in order to make a 100% fair comparasion. XG270 GtG curves are perfect, similar curves in all GtG transitions, stability, artifats shield ! Is tweaked for the best response time possible, without affect image quality ! I can't imagine any strobing OD inplementation better than this.

At TFTCentral VG279QM, both 240 and 280 tables show artifacts in several shades with "recommended" OD level. Someone want corona or random shimmering pixels ? Me no, but another gamer can tolerate it. But in this case, XG270 also can boost OD two levels more.

Also to take in account, Rtings XG270 review, and TFTCentral VG279QM, not use the same response time measurement. Rtings show graphs of oscilloscope with the curves, that is the best form, 100% transparency, add show 100% times and 80% times starting from 0% to 80%. TFTCentral only show 80% times, and start at 10% and stop at 90%. So, unfortunately, can't compare it

About strobing, BlurBusters tweaked OD for each frequency, and center screen is the zone with lowest crosstalk.

Caution with ASUS "strobe tweaks", don't buy if not sure is weel done, ELMB implementations in new ASUS ROG XG27UQ 27" IPS 4K 144Hz has this strobe "tweak":

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6210

Can cause uncontrollable laughter if not buyed, but if someone see this after pay 900$

TFTCentral VG279QM 280Hz strobing 280Hz, fortunately not show these XG27UQ corona aberration, it seems that beer levels in tweakers are moderate in this case, but not know if the OD is locked at this high level also for lower frequencies, TFTCentral just no test it, like also not test if ELMBSync+VRR apply double strobe This "no test crucial doubts" made me "suspect the worst".

ELMBSync is the "Fashion" tech of ASUS, and not deep reviewed, and older ELMBSync monitors full of artifats.



If this is not fixed in this new VG279QM, would inevitably result in strobing with artifacts under 280 FPS/Hz, and to be fair, not all games can be sustained at rock solid 280 FPS ! So we need clear the doubts. But, we know that under 120Hz not allowed strobe without VRR, can't test 100 o 80Hz. Double strobe is a big issue in my opinion, cause permanent fullscreen double image artifact in moving images, and this for gamers that care about any defect on screen, is like the monitor are just ELMB, the Sync part is useless.

RLCScontender

At 280hz elmb sync, of course there is crosstalk but its not noticeable due to the framerate and refresh rate going so fast.

Trust me when i say this. From 240hz to 280hz, u wont see any crosstalk.

The high refresh rate will basically make ghosting, tearing, crosstalk near inivisible.

This is personal opinion, can't be translated to others gamers, for instance on this forum XG270 user notice and hate crosstalk strobing at 240Hz, and they notice a great improvement with 224Hz, and cristal smooth 100-120Hz.

Tearing is less noticeable, but not "near invisible", bother players, only with RTSS scanline sync can be moved off screen with VSync Off.

When u strobe, try to ignore crosstalk but focus more on the alien. If the alien is crystal clear to see ? Thats good enought.

This only can be applied to gamers that play FPS games whit the eyes allways seeing the crosshair, but in games where you need to move eyes around all screen, and "the view" with mouse is moving all the time, crosstalk is noticeable.

TheMadMan697

TN is radicaly different, destroy viewing angles, at the point that, even sit at the center at the correct distance with the eyes in center screen, if you show for instance a white fullscreen, only see that color correctly in small center band, bottom zone is progressively more bright, upper zone is dimmed, caused by contrast shift, vertical viewing angles in TN are terrifyling. Each cm you move the head, change contrast a bit. With white fullscreen, both horizontal sides are subtly tinted yellow. Occurs in all colors, but more noticeable in light colors.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... wie-xl2540

phpBB [video]

Gray Uniformity, upper dimmed

https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/mon ... -large.jpg