XL2411Z V2, my findings so far [settings, VT1500 trick, etc]

[masterotaku]

Don't adjust AMA during BENQ Blur Reduction --
Turn OFF then ON BENQ Blur Reduction or adjust persistence in Strobe Utility; the AMA setting will automatically reset to settings optimized for BENQ Blur Reduction.

I already know that. If I change the AMA settings, leaving it at "high" again, the effect is stronger until I reset blur reduction. But that photo and my complaints are about that "optimized" overdrive you're talking about. It looks like that from the moment I turn on the monitor.
Maybe I'm extremely picky about these things, but I think that photo proves my point.
Does your monitor look different?

[Falkentyne]

Benq's AMA has long been known to be inferior to Asus' tracefree, even though the same manufacturer manufacturers most of their panels, and some of the panels are the exact same (Vg248QE and 2420T or (2411T) are the same panel; only the firmware/electronics put in by asus or benq are different.

Even in non strobed modes on tftcentral in their reviews comparing non strobed overdrive amoung different manufacturers, it showed the asus monitors with a TF of 60 or 80 being cleaner than benq's AMA set to high. Tracefree at 100 (0F in service menu under "OD gain") seems about the same as AMA at premium. Asus really had a great OD implementation.

In strobed mode, however, the service menu has TF set at 0F (maximum), but clearly that is toned down for lightboost mode, just like AMA at high is toned down in blur reduction mode. (Tracefree in OSD is actually somehow separate from "0D gain" in the service menu, even though changing TF in OSD also changes OD control to the corresponding hex value; you can get strange results setting TF to XX in the OSD and then changing it in the service menu; the old OSD setting remains but somehow gets "tweaked" by what you set in the service menu.

Maybe Benq needs a low level overdrive setting with 15 steps (00 to 0F) or something.

[Falkentyne]

mastertaku:

Are you using an AMD card or a Geforce?

I think someone with a GeForce needs to see if 1400 VT works at 60hz.
I have a feeling there's either a difference between the cards or as Chief said, between CRU and NVidia Custom resolution, since as I mentioned, chief's 60hz timings give me different kHz and pixel clock than his, and I have no idea how to replicate it....

Maybe Chief can post his back porch and blanking timings...but I don't even think Nvidia CP even allows those to be changed.
Why would the same timings (Active, Front Porch , Sync Width and Total, give 2 different pixel clocks and horizontal kHz, if used on Nvidia custom resolution, or on ToastyX's CRU?

[masterotaku]

Are you using an AMD card or a Geforce?

That reminded me that I still had to create my signature. Now it says I have a Nvidia GTX 760.

since as I mentioned, chief's 60hz timings give me different kHz and pixel clock than his, and I have no idea how to replicate it....

Yeah, I also get different numbers. 84KHz of vertical refresh rate and 174.72MHz of pixel clock.

It's jarring that VT1502 works at 61Hz, but 60Hz is so limited. Did you also try my updated timings for 60Hz? It's only 6 more vertical pixels, but hey, every pixel counts .

About the AMA thing, I think it doesn't look that bad at lower refresh rates than 120Hz. For example, at 90Hz it's more similar to Lightboost. I still can notice it, but it's fainter (when browsing and gaming, but in testufo it looks almost the same as at 120Hz).

[ToastyX]

This is either a difference between CRU and Nvidia custom resolution utility and/or something between AMD and Nvidia cards. (your kHz refresh rate and pixel clock were lower when I entered this into CRU, also).

There shouldn't be any difference. The screen shot is inaccurate. The pixel clock should be 174.72 MHz, and the horizontal scan rate should be 84 kHz.

CRU updates the values as you type, while the NVIDIA control panel only updates the values when you leave the field. The screen shot shows a blue outline on the vertical total field, which means that was the active field. The vertical total must have been edited from 1450 to 1400 before the screen shot was taken. CRU shows the same values if you enter 1450 for the vertical total.

Keep in mind that the pixel clock patcher also changes the single-link DVI limit, so you might have different results with and without the patch.

[masterotaku]

At last, I've found decent values for 60Hz. I had to try some crazy timings, but at least it works. First post updated, with some other changes. See edit number 2.

[flamey]

Thanks for sharing masterotaku, VT1502 also works fine on my 2411Z with v2 firmware - also using an nvidia card 780ti without pixel clock patcher.

[PanzerIV]

1- An earlier strobe phase can also reduce input lag, with a trade-off of increased ghosting.

2- To avoid visible flicker, it is recommended you run at a refresh rate of 100Hz or higher.

3- This creates more time for LCD GtG pixel transitions to complete between refreshes for strobing, resulting in cleaner motion with less ghosting (thinner ghosting band at top/bottom edges). Also, the image becomes brighter while using Vertical Total 1350. This trick is only possible at 120Hz or less.

Hi guys, I've finaly got my XL2420Z replacement from BenQ Canada with firmware v2.0 this time However I'm encountering a very annoying issue which I'm sure there's a way to fix it but for the moment is a total deal breaker and even worse than v1.0. Let me explain below but I'll also have a few questions too since this whole monitor tweaking is rather complex and a first for me.

1- Setting the stobe phase to its earliest through the BlurBuster's utility will lead to the less possible input lag but increase ghosting. What is the default value as it seems to be already at the earliest. Also from the earliest to the latest, how much milliseconds of difference in input lag there is? To have the cleanest center possible, is the best value the same for all Z series user or it can differ from 1 panel to another?

2- If it says that it's recommanded to run the refresh rate to 100 or higher to avoid flicker but that the VT trick only works at 120Hz or less, why were you guys trying to many very low refresh rates such as 50-60Hz?! Ain't it much worse for motion panning, using 1000Hz mouse and flickering???

3- You say the image becomes brighter with VT1350 but how much brigther does it gets. Is it like +40cd/m2? Is it also only noticeable when enabling "BenQ's Motion Blur Reduction"? I didn't seem to really notice a brightness difference.

4- Some very bad issues I'm having is the BB Utility keep resetting everytime I open it. How can I make sure it saved the settings I last applied before closing it?

5- When I had firmware v1.0 I could set VT1350 at 100-120Hz and still use Blur Reduction. Now with my v2.0 replacement, I use the same high quality DVI-D cable and the same computer that's on Win 8.1 64bit with a SLI of Geforce GTX 670, yet whenever now I activate Blur Reduction with VT1350 no matter if 100 or 120Hz, I get a black screen!


Any help will be extremly appreciated! Oh by the way I'm on the latest Nvidia beta drivers. Not sure if you have to re-apply the (NVIDIA Pixel Clock Patcher) everytime you update your drivers but I took no chance and downloaded the latest version and re-applyed it then rebooted but it made no differences. I'm pretty out of solutions at the moment.

[Falkentyne]

Hi,

Ok, first, lets set some matters clear so we can try to find out what's going on.
The Blur Busters utility get its settings from the monitor's firmware. It isn't saved IN the utility itself--its saved in the monitor's own memory. you can see what the settings it uses by going into the service menu and seeing the settings there. (when the monitor is turned off, hold down the menu button and keep it held down while pressing the power button once. keep the menu button held down until you see the led lights flash twice. during the 2nd flash, release the menu button and when the DVI or input prompt vanishes, pressing menu will enter the service menu.

The utilty should NEVER reset UNLESS what you are entering is NOT being applied in the service menu (strobe phase and strobe duty).

You can test it and see what happens (close the utilty first) by setting strobe phase and duty up a few numbers,then exiting and then entering the utilty and seeing where the sliders moved to.

When changing 'persistence", does the screen get brighter or darker when using the utlity?
When changing 'crosstalk" and moving the slider quickly, you should sometimes see very fast screen flashes. Do you get that at all?

We were discussing lower refresh rates for 60 FPS arcade emulators which need to be run at 60 hz (running them at higher refresh rates will cause blur) so we wanted strobing for 60 hz. Also some games may be locked at other framerates, like 85 ( just an ancient example: an old Unreal tournament 2k4 duel server had the framerate locked to 85; using 100 or 120hz on a server like that would look plain ugly with either blur reduction or lightboost, so there you go).

Ok, as far as the vertical total tweaks:
you usually will use different porch and sync widths on the 24" and 27" monitors.
For 24", you usually want to use Front porch 48/3, and sync width 32/5 (pixels/lines).
The 27" monitors default to 88/4 and 44/5, however those values cause trouble sometimes when increasing the vertical total, so you usually want to use the 24" numbers also. So try 48/3 and 32/5.

--------
You said that you get a black screen WHEN YOU TURN ON BLUR REDUCTION?? But if blur reduction is **NOT** on, you DO NOT have a black screen? So toggling blur reduction on gives you a black screen? That should NOT be happening--that would only happen if you had the strobe phase set to a very high number (like 060-100 in the osd--it's completely impossible to set this value through the BB utility; highest is 047).


If you're using 88/4 and 44/5, you may get into trouble.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Hi guys, I've finaly got my XL2420Z replacement from BenQ Canada with firmware v2.0 this time However I'm encountering a very annoying issue which I'm sure there's a way to fix it but for the moment is a total deal breaker and even worse than v1.0. Let me explain below but I'll also have a few questions too since this whole monitor tweaking is rather complex and a first for me.

1- Setting the stobe phase to its earliest through the BlurBuster's utility will lead to the less possible input lag but increase ghosting. What is the default value as it seems to be already at the earliest. Also from the earliest to the latest, how much milliseconds of difference in input lag there is? To have the cleanest center possible, is the best value the same for all Z series user or it can differ from 1 panel to another?

The value is always the same for a specific timings (e.g. specific refresh rate, resolution & specific timings - Vertical Total).
You have to recalibrate for a different refresh rate, or a different Vertical Total.
Usually, if you use a large Vertical Total (e.g. VT1350), you can set Crosstalk to 0 with less artifacts than on a V1 monitor.

2- If it says that it's recommanded to run the refresh rate to 100 or higher to avoid flicker but that the VT trick only works at 120Hz or less, why were you guys trying to many very low refresh rates such as 50-60Hz?! Ain't it much worse for motion panning, using 1000Hz mouse and flickering???

It depends on your goals of input lag, or motion fluidity.

Prioritizing on input lag & VSYNC OFF: If you use VSYNC OFF and you run ultrahigh frame rates, you definitely don't want to run a low refresh rate. You want to run at 120Hz or even 144Hz to get the best performance. You need minimum time between the control method and the onscreen reaction, even if it means microstutters. (During VSYNC OFF, even 200fps@120Hz can still have visible microstutters to those people sensitive to microstutters). Reducing input lag is EXTREMELY critical in competitive gameplay; first person shooters -- since reacting 10ms before your opponent can win the frag. Having less input lag than your competition helps a great deal. There's really no way around it; a gamer often has to compromise motion perfection (e.g. microstutters) in order to gain minimum input lag.

Prioritizing on motion fluidity: If you prefer zero stutters, zero tearing, then sometimes a lower framerate at a lower Hz, can actually look smoother, since it's easier for a GPU to run framerates matching resfresh rates. The "perfect motion effect" (CRT effect, TestUFO-smooth effect, Super Mario Brothers Nintendo butter-smooth pan effect, space-shoot-em-up smooth pan effect) occurs on strobed displays at framerate == refreshrate == stroberate. Especially on CRT and plasma. If the "perfect motion effect" is what you are seeking, then the framerate physics are different. You want a form of low-latency VSYNC ON in order to achieve this kind of effect (not suitable for elite professional competitive FPS gameplay, as you really need VSYNC OFF for that). So 75fps@75Hz@2ms persistence can look equally clear motion as 100fps@100Hz@2ms persistence, since persistence (strobe length) dictates the amount of motion blur, rather than refresh rate or frame rate, provided you got an exact match between framerate, refreshrate, and stroberate. You do get more flicker and stroboscopic effects at lower refresh rates, but the motion is still "perfect looking" when you track your eyes along the motion; much like 8-bit smooth panning in old games at 60Hz. Consequently, 75fps@75Hz strobe looks MUCH smoother (butter-smooth pan effect) than 113fps@120Hz. For fully refresh-rate-synchronized motion, there is a full and complete elimination of all forms of microstutters, provided the game engine isn't bottlenecked by anything else. e.g. keyboard strafing in Source Engine games produces a "perfect strobe-free pan effect" on strobed displays. Sliding the rails in Bioshock Infinite looks "perfect motion", with zero microstutters, if Bioshock Infinite has no framedrops. (Bioshock is singleplayer, so input lag of VSYNC ON is less critical, if you're prioritizing motion fluidity). There's certainly more flicker/stroboscopic effect, but you gain the butter-smooth stutter-free tear-free perfect pan effect, especially for keyboard-controlled or game-controlled panning (e.g. no mouse microstutters).

Some people around here prioritize for input lag, and some people around here prioritize for perfect-looking motion (CRT effect).

3- You say the image becomes brighter with VT1350 but how much brigther does it gets. Is it like +40cd/m2? Is it also only noticeable when enabling "BenQ's Motion Blur Reduction"? I didn't seem to really notice a brightness difference.

It is only noticeable during BENQ Blur Reduction, and only at higher settings (e.g. settings above 2.5ms persistence). Apparently the monitor calculates different strobe flash lengths during large VT settings. Strobe Utility's persistence scale is calibrated for a VT1350-tweaked 120Hz mode. The brightness of the 0.5ms setting is exactly the same, while the brightness of the 3.0ms setting is about 50% brighter, while the brightness of the 5.0ms setting is actually twice as bright. If you're using low persistence settings, you won't be noticing much of a difference (if any).

4- Some very bad issues I'm having is the BB Utility keep resetting everytime I open it. How can I make sure it saved the settings I last applied before closing it?

It should be automatically reloading the last-memorized settings.
When you adjust "Persistence", does the brightness of the monitor change? (it should).

5- When I had firmware v1.0 I could set VT1350 at 100-120Hz and still use Blur Reduction. Now with my v2.0 replacement, I use the same high quality DVI-D cable and the same computer that's on Win 8.1 64bit with a SLI of Geforce GTX 670, yet whenever now I activate Blur Reduction with VT1350 no matter if 100 or 120Hz, I get a black screen!

That is currently abnormal.
Are you adding the VT1350 tweak via NVIDIA or via ToastyX?

-- The default settings might be a bit messed up. Try activating the service menu (instructions at bottom of Strobe Utility page), and setting "Strobe Phase" to 00, before re-enabling BENQ Blur Reduction. Once this is done, reload Strobe Utility, and see if adjusting Persistence changes the brightness of the monitor.
-- Are you getting a green checkmark when you run Strobe Utility?
-- When you adjust Persistence (Blur Reduction ON), does the brightness of the screen change?
-- Try without the VT1350 tweak at first. Does it work?
-- Try testing BENQ Blur Reduction at 100Hz too. Does it work?
-- If it does, try setting Vertical Total to 1350 again, but changing Horizontal Total to 2040 (to allow VT1350 to work at 120Hz without needing the ToastyX patcher). Usually you'll see 2080 for Horizontal Total, and sometimes larger (2200) depending on how the utility calculates timings. Large Horizontal Totals is not currently desirable in most cases, and can lead to a black screen when combined with large Vertical Totals.
-- If all else fails, apply the ToastyX dot clock patch, and see if that solves your black screen.

Please do tell us what solution works for you -- as I am interested in what happened to cause your black screens, as well as what modes worked and what modes doesn't work; as those will provide clues on what's going on.