05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by RLCSContender* » 10 Jun 2020, 01:42

WayUpGaming wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 23:08
Hi guys! New here so please take it easy on me lol. So I recently built my new rig for streaming/gaming, here are the specs:

Intel i7-9700K 3.6 GHz running at 4.6 GHz
Corsair DDR4-3200 16GB
MSI GeForce RTX 2080

So I've been spending days looking up which monitor I should buy for my rig. I plan on playing competitive Valorant and I get 240+ fps. This PC is mainly for gaming but I also do watch content on it as well. Here is the list of monitors I have narrowed down my decision to:

Acer Predator XB273X
Asus TUF Gaming VG279QM
Viewsonic XG270
Dell Alienware AW2720HF

Which one out of these 4 would you choose in my shoes and why? Just wanted some opinions from the best monitor forum I can find. Also not as important of a factor, but if someone could tell me which one of these monitors is best suited for the PS4, that would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks in advance, can't wait to hear from you guys!
The Asus VG279qm is the monitor i would EASILY pick in that list. Due to the fact that you ASKED a question asking me why. , it's FAIR game for me to answer it as HONEST as possible, so i'm not here to start any arguments.

I ranked it #1 in the fastest IPS monitor and the fastest OVERALL monitor. What i mean by that is peak performance. It's easily the fastest monitor and it EASILY surpasses the fastest TN(omen x25f/ nitro xv2530). The TN camp will bring up the "motion blur" "ghosting" argument and how TN is "still ahead" and that "ips ghosts too much" blah blah blah.

They are basing that ignorance based off adaptive sync range of 48hz-165hz where the motion blur/ghosting is WAYY more obvious and those UFO tests. UFO tests at 240hz are NOT an accurate representation of how the game will actually look in practice(at least from my point of view)

What they don't know is that those rules dont' really apply at 240hz. WHY? Because MPRTo take over and a good g2g average become redundant and counter productive. Basically, MPRT is so good at 240hz that a good pixel response time isnt' really that needed(although it still HELPS all else being equal). For example, at 240hz, the Asus is still slower than 90% of TN monitors because 3.8ms g2g average isn't all th at impressive relative to most TNs.

however, the Asus can be overclocked to 280hz so by default, if you were to compare it to the omen x25f(fastest TN) side by side, the omen x25f is SLOWER. not only that but you have a 40hz frame advantage. iis this a gamechanger? this depends, but is it a gamechanger to say the top 15% of players wanting that extra "EDGE" in gaming? YES< it';s a major advantage. When i played at 280hz in rocket league, due to the 40hz frame advantage, i won more 50/50s, i reacted way faster, and i subconsciously reacted in a way that is indicative of someone who is using a monitor with a higher refresh rate. I've tested this with my clanmates who BOTh own the omen x25f. a 40hz frame advantage may not better to novice players, but if among the most SKILLED players in the world, it really does give a huge advantage.

but lets just assume 280hz doesnt' matter and that it's "just a gimmick" and that "i still see ghosting" "it's too blurry" "blah blah". The nail in the coffin is ELMB-SYNC. ELMB sync's crosstalk is the absoulute LOWEST at very high refresh rates and becomes virtually invisible at 280hz and fortunately, the Asus has that in its arsenal and thus annhilates the "blurring" argument that most TN users frequently use against IPS. also,no tearing and microstutters thx to g-sync compatibility.

the only reason why i chose the MSI was becauase i'm more of a console gamer than a PC gamer and i intend to use it when the series x and ps5 come out, ti's the only monitor with some sort of variable overdrive because even on its most aggressive overdrive at "faster", even at 60-120hz, the ghosting remains in check(under 7% error rate, 93% of transitions are compliant which is very good and playable. I don't know why but i've confirmed this myself. Hardware unboxed also confirmed it which means 3ms g2g average at 60hz-120hz with basicall

tldrlrt';

240hz and above is like the twilight zone where most rules don't apply. it's on a league of its own.
280hz the asus is virtually untouchable when it comes to peak performance. As long as the FPS doesnt' dip below 240hz.

for ps4, avoid using the VG27qm, fixed refresh at 60hz is basically an input lag fast. Here are my own personal human benchmarks at 60hz via input lag. The Asus VG279qm is unfortunately has the most input lag at 60hz. I wish i have a leo bodnar tool to prove it.

Image

input lag at native resolution on its optimal refresh rate

Image

and lastly, peak performance via 10-90% g2g average.

Image

Gunta0
Posts: 9
Joined: 27 May 2020, 04:55

Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by Gunta0 » 10 Jun 2020, 02:47

Hello RLCSContender,
I look forward to your test on the Asus VG259QM screen. Could you also do a color test like you did for the MSI?

Great jobs ;)

ProX
Posts: 19
Joined: 10 Jun 2020, 05:24

Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by ProX » 10 Jun 2020, 08:44

Hey guys,

first of all, thank you @RLCScontender for sharing your results with us.

I currently have two Monitors - Asus VG259QM and Dell/Alienware AW2521HF - where i have to choose one and return the other.
They are very similar in picture and color. I've tested a few things, but I'm not an expert, that's just my opinion.

I have found the following:

- Going from Desktop (alt+tab before) back ingame again (fullscreen in Call of Duty) takes with AW2521HF only ~2,6 seconds and VG259QM takes ~3,7 seconds (side fact: the Dell S2716DG 144hz G-Sync only takes about ~1 second): do anyone know the reason for this difference?

- IPS-Glow / BLB: on the bottom right i see something on both, nothing that would bother me a lot, but the AW2521 is a little worse (just better luck on the VG259QM on my copy).

- I did the EIZO Monitor Test and on the Banding/Gradient test (Test No. 9): I see sometimes some banding on the AW2521HF, but ONLY if i have both monitors on at the same time, if i use only the AW2521hf everything is fine: Do anyone know the reason for this?

- Frog Pursuit test:
- G-Sync off @165fps: Overdrive "60" (VG259QM) vs. Overdrive "Fast" (AW2521HF) -> equal
- G-Sync off @165fps: Overdrive 60 (VG259QM) vs. Super Fast (AW2521HF) -> VG259QM is better
- G-Sync off @165fps: Overdrive 80 (VG259QM) vs. Super Fast (AW2521HF) -> Almost equal, but the AW2521HF is a little better
- G-Sync off @240fps: Overdrive 60 (VG259QM) vs. Fast (AW2521HF) -> AW2521HF is better
- G-Sync off @240fps: Overdrive 80 (VG259QM) vs. Super Fast (AW2521HF) -> equal


-UFO Ghost Test (@240hz on both):
- G-Sync off + ELMB on (ELMB only available on VG259QM): Overdrive 80 (standard Setting with ELMB on @Asus) vs. Fast (AW2521) -> VG259QM is clearer (less motion blur?) but shows a little more ghosting -> so its preference which one win
- G-Sync off + ELMB on: Overdrive 80 (VG259QM) vs. Super Fast (AW2521) -> VG259QM is clearer and better, but both have some ghosting
- G-Sync on + ELMB: Overdrive 80 vs Super Fast -> almost equal, maybe VG259QM a little clearer -> but ELMB seems much better with G-Sync off

- G-Sync on (ELMB off): OD 60 vs. Fast -> equal
- G-Sync on (ELMB off): OD 60 vs. Super Fast -> equal
- G-Sync on (ELMB off): OD 80 vs. Super Fast -> AW2521 is better
- G-Sync on (ELMB off): OD 80 vs. Extreme -> AW2521 is better

Its really suprising that AW2521 can handle really well higher overdrives while G-Sync is on (even "Extreme" Setting): What can be the reason for that?

Input Lag Testing with Human Benchmark is almost equal on average (2 ms difference, but that can be a random effect).

In my opinion they are both good monitors, its a pity that the ELMB can only be practically used with fps about 240 fps, under 200 fps its useless.
Any other test i can do? At the moment i tend to keep the Dell AW2521HF, especially since i don't play games at 280fps at the moment (mostly around 160-230 FPS).

@RLCScontender it would be great if i can see you review on the VG259QM before i decide between one of the monitors. I couldn`t find any review for VG259QM. Do u know any other reviews for both monitors (beside the one from RTINGS)? A professional compare between the response times / input lags would be great.

Pazos
Posts: 25
Joined: 27 May 2020, 05:52

Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by Pazos » 10 Jun 2020, 12:16

ProX wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 08:44
Hey guys,

first of all, thank you @RLCScontender for sharing your results with us.

I currently have two Monitors - Asus VG259QM and Dell/Alienware AW2521HF - where i have to choose one and return the other.
They are very similar in picture and color. I've tested a few things, but I'm not an expert, that's just my opinion.

I have found the following:

- Going from Desktop (alt+tab before) back ingame again (fullscreen in Call of Duty) takes with AW2521HF only ~2,6 seconds and VG259QM takes ~3,7 seconds (side fact: the Dell S2716DG 144hz G-Sync only takes about ~1 second): do anyone know the reason for this difference?

- IPS-Glow / BLB: on the bottom right i see something on both, nothing that would bother me a lot, but the AW2521 is a little worse (just better luck on the VG259QM on my copy).

- I did the EIZO Monitor Test and on the Banding/Gradient test (Test No. 9): I see sometimes some banding on the AW2521HF, but ONLY if i have both monitors on at the same time, if i use only the AW2521hf everything is fine: Do anyone know the reason for this?

- Frog Pursuit test:
- G-Sync off @165fps: Overdrive "60" (VG259QM) vs. Overdrive "Fast" (AW2521HF) -> equal
- G-Sync off @165fps: Overdrive 60 (VG259QM) vs. Super Fast (AW2521HF) -> VG259QM is better
- G-Sync off @165fps: Overdrive 80 (VG259QM) vs. Super Fast (AW2521HF) -> Almost equal, but the AW2521HF is a little better
- G-Sync off @240fps: Overdrive 60 (VG259QM) vs. Fast (AW2521HF) -> AW2521HF is better
- G-Sync off @240fps: Overdrive 80 (VG259QM) vs. Super Fast (AW2521HF) -> equal


-UFO Ghost Test (@240hz on both):
- G-Sync off + ELMB on (ELMB only available on VG259QM): Overdrive 80 (standard Setting with ELMB on @Asus) vs. Fast (AW2521) -> VG259QM is clearer (less motion blur?) but shows a little more ghosting -> so its preference which one win
- G-Sync off + ELMB on: Overdrive 80 (VG259QM) vs. Super Fast (AW2521) -> VG259QM is clearer and better, but both have some ghosting
- G-Sync on + ELMB: Overdrive 80 vs Super Fast -> almost equal, maybe VG259QM a little clearer -> but ELMB seems much better with G-Sync off

- G-Sync on (ELMB off): OD 60 vs. Fast -> equal
- G-Sync on (ELMB off): OD 60 vs. Super Fast -> equal
- G-Sync on (ELMB off): OD 80 vs. Super Fast -> AW2521 is better
- G-Sync on (ELMB off): OD 80 vs. Extreme -> AW2521 is better

Its really suprising that AW2521 can handle really well higher overdrives while G-Sync is on (even "Extreme" Setting): What can be the reason for that?

Input Lag Testing with Human Benchmark is almost equal on average (2 ms difference, but that can be a random effect).

In my opinion they are both good monitors, its a pity that the ELMB can only be practically used with fps about 240 fps, under 200 fps its useless.
Any other test i can do? At the moment i tend to keep the Dell AW2521HF, especially since i don't play games at 280fps at the moment (mostly around 160-230 FPS).

@RLCScontender it would be great if i can see you review on the VG259QM before i decide between one of the monitors. I couldn`t find any review for VG259QM. Do u know any other reviews for both monitors (beside the one from RTINGS)? A professional compare between the response times / input lags would be great.
So you have a dell S2716dg? How are those monitors compared to the dell tn?

ProX
Posts: 19
Joined: 10 Jun 2020, 05:24

Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by ProX » 10 Jun 2020, 12:35

Pazos wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 12:16
ProX wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 08:44
So you have a dell S2716dg? How are those monitors compared to the dell tn?
Yes i have the S2716dg and its still a good monitor (but "only" 144 Hz). For competitive gaming i want to switch to 1080p and 24/25" and more refresh rate. My S2716dg has a great TN panel (no blb etc.), really good image and viewing angle for a TN. My both tested IPS has slightly better images, specially the colours are better. The feeling ingame is way better with the new IPS monitors, playing at ~200 FPS (with G-Sync on) is great. Though the difference is not as big as the jump from 60Hz to 144Hz but still noticeable for me.

kofman13
Posts: 113
Joined: 10 Apr 2020, 10:25

Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by kofman13 » 10 Jun 2020, 12:46

if im going to be playing cs and overwatch at 240hz but apex legends and COD at 150ish fps. should i get XL2546S or XG270? strobing and motion blur wise. ( but i am worried the viewsonic strobing is too dark people say)

Pazos
Posts: 25
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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by Pazos » 10 Jun 2020, 12:57

ProX wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 12:35
Pazos wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 12:16
ProX wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 08:44
So you have a dell S2716dg? How are those monitors compared to the dell tn?
Yes i have the S2716dg and its still a good monitor (but "only" 144 Hz). For competitive gaming i want to switch to 1080p and 24/25" and more refresh rate. My S2716dg has a great TN panel (no blb etc.), really good image and viewing lsnd aangle for a TN. My both tested IPS has slightly better images, specially the colours are better. The feeling ingame is way better with the monitor new IPS monitors, playing at ~200 FPS (with G-Sync on) is great. Though the difference is not as big as the jump from 60Hz to 144Hz but still noticeable for me.
Thx I have the dell at the moment and also looking for an upgrade, also considering a 24-25 inch monitor with 240 hz.

Butt not sure if I should go with the new Benq2546s or with the ips panels

How is the motion clarity and input lag compared to the dell?!?

RLCSContender*
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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by RLCSContender* » 10 Jun 2020, 13:18

My package just arrived this morning. First impressions(i'm at work right now so i will use my new custom built box(inside is a photodiode and a bunch of soldered wires and latency measuring hardware which connects BOTH to my oscilloscope and conmpyuter). The accuracy of my oscilloscope goes to the hundedths of 0.01

First impressions of the VG259qm

this is badly tuned because i was comparing my UFO tests with the vg279qm.

1. at 80 OD, the VG279qm looks SHARPER than the 60 OD of the VG259QM @240hz via UFO test. i got 3.7ms g2g on the vg279qm, i'm guessing @240hz, it's 4-4.2ms g2g at 60 OD @240 for the 25" version. The 60 OD on the vg279qm is SLOWER than the 60 OD on the vg259qm however. then again, why would someone who owns the 27" version of the monitor use OD 60 when OD 80 literally has little to no overshoot?


2. OD 80 is playable at 240hz but the occasional glowing blue artefacts to me is distracting, so OD 60 is FOR SURE the setting to use at 240hz. Also, when i'm going in super sonic speeds, the rocket league ground occasionally glows(it turns white) but no inverse ghosting artefacts. This reminds me of "advanced" setting on the viewsonic elite xg270qg, where the overshoot is SLIGHTLY too high to be playable but it wont' cause any artefacts to show, but u will see a delay in color transition if you go super fast. I'm OCD and if i see any distracting artefacts, to me it's not playable.

3. OD 80 is playable at 280hz and in practice I saw NO artefacts and or delayed color changes(tested this when i was goign in super sonic speed in rocket league) playing only two games of rocket league. I also moved my camera super fast to make sure and i didn't see any artefacts and i didn't. I also didn't see any black level smearing at OD 60 but i can tell when the ball is moving VERY fast, it wasn't as sharp compared to when i'm on OD 80.

so yes, my initial assertion at 280hz. OD 80 HAS to be used @280hz refresh so by default, it's the fastest monitor in the world on its optimal refresh rate oef 280hz. The overshoot just by looking at the UFO test is literally at the border of what i consider playable at 240hz and above (15%). Anything higher than 15% overshoot, to me it's too distracting

this is one of the mainm reasons why the LG 38gl850-b the 38" ultra wide monitor didn't even break my top 12 because those reviewers claim it has a fast g2g average but the overshoot is above 10%(which at 165hz and below is VERY VERY noticeable). At 240hz, i'm giving a 15% inverse ghosting error rate leeway since overshoot dissipates way faster and the added motion clarity(MPRT) is more powerful as well.


tldr;

this will come down to the overshoot error rate at 280hz. if i find that it's above 15%, this is an instant return.

so from 240hz and below, this monitor is SLOWER than the VG279qm bcuz of how badly tuned the settings are. However, at 280hz, it's faster than the VG279qm because 80 OD is sharper on the 25" version than the 27" version but with more inverse ghosting based off the UFO tests.

this all comes down to the ERROR % measurements of at 280hz on OD 80 . If it's above 15%, it's unplayable and this would be the worst 240/280hz IPS monitor in my opinion. But if it's at the 13-15%, that is totally acceptable and in practice u probably won't see it(then again, everyone is different). Only IF the FPS is consistently near 280hz or higher.

good news, the input lag at 60hz is snappy. This is just as good as the MSI MAG251rx and the alienware aw2521hf. So the input lag penalty for the 25" version does NOT apply at 60hz fixed refresh compared to its 27" version where input lag at 60hz is horrendous.

will report hard numbers and do rigorus rise time tests once i get home.

kofman13
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Re: 04/18/2020. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by kofman13 » 10 Jun 2020, 14:08

RLCScontender wrote:
19 Apr 2020, 06:48
enescelik wrote:
19 Apr 2020, 04:57
This is some solid work man thank you for your efforts.
Thanks, i have a lot of time on my hands due to quarantine so i made it a hobby checking out all the 240hz IPS monitors.

Image

i think my amazon ban is imminent since those douchenozzles keeps on harassing me about my returns. Then again, i've already made up my mind on which monitors i will main for the time being.

can't really discuss the g2g average of the AW since dell watches this forum like a hawk. Here's a hint, it has 3 overdrive settings just like the MSI using the same AU optronics model.
i cant read whats in that email, what did they say exactly to you? im curious about return rules etc and limits

RLCSContender*
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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by RLCSContender* » 10 Jun 2020, 15:31

Amazon gave me $800 amazon credit and 1 year free amazon prime cuz my brother who's an attorney contacted ofm for harassment.

tHey harassed me three times alleging fraud. Making returns isn't fraudulant. Policy is policy

If they ban me, i have a solid litigation case against them so im basically untouchable.

3rd party sellers hate me the most and if they ever charge a restock fee,i will file an a/z claim. Yes, i won all of them(7/7)

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