Input lag and eSport. Every gamer should know this.

[Unixko]

its rly easy to understand that problem something is fucked up with mouse keyboard internet signal shown on display and its random during a day thats it

If everything is that easy, I have nothing to add.

from your video i can tell you dont have any problem so why you are here

[1000WATT]

I'm here because I want to see the confirmation of these problems in numbers. And I want to guide those who are struggling with similar problems in the way of providing numerical evidence, rather than a simple description of the type: I wrapped my head in a falga and my aim is up 10%. Someone's Internet connection deteriorates at certain times or the voltage in the network drops and specific PC components cannot cope with this. You need a systematics to know what exactly causes a negative effect, the power supply unit of a certain model may not cope, and another model will cope and you will not notice anything. But you just say that there is a problem and you feel it. This is not enough.

[1000WATT]

A little about the usefulness of numerical measurements.
When I bought a 1000fps camera and started doing my own tests, I got rid of many of the settings that turned out to be a placebo effect. Although earlier I felt 100% that these settings help.

[1000WATT]

No equipment description. You can try a lot of advice and sin on anything. Although the reason for this may be the clear glass that showcases the beauty of your components. This can be continued indefinitely until an easily accessible measurement tool is used that accurately indicates the cause of unpleasant deviations. But we will be able to decide what kind of instrument this will be when there is a numerical confirmation. Come up with a way to do this with the available means.

[mello]

its rly easy to understand that problem something is fucked up with mouse keyboard internet signal shown on display and its random during a day thats it

If everything is that easy, I have nothing to add.

I will try to explain this phenomenon to you, so just imagine this scenario. Lets pretend that ping measurement & implementation does not exist, just erase it from your memory and knowledge. Now, when you are gaming, sometimes during the day you will be unknowingly playing with ping 20-30 and sometimes it will be 60-80, 120-140 and 200-250 etc. In this scenario, you can see and feel the difference but you just don't know what the root cause of the problem is. You can see and feel the sudden change in game harmonics, change in perceived game fluidity, unusual enemy model movement / positioning changes (model stuttering during movement), weird delays / teleports, hit registration problems, weapon spray control difference, timing issues etc. But, without being aware of ping measurement & implementation you simply don't know what is causing these changes that affect your gameplay during different times of the day. This thread (and many others) are about the exact same thing. Its just that people describe what they see & feel in different words and they are using different terminology. This thread uses the incorrect term of "input lag" to describe the issue, but we are still dealing with some kind of a delays that is caused by *something* BUT not hardware.

We know that internet performance fluctuations during the day can also cause similar behaviours to occur, even without ping changing at all (!), all because how packets are being processed, prioritized & handleded within the network by your ISP in relation to all other traffic that is happening within the network. This is one part of the equation, and this has been known for nearly two decades. But there is a growing concern about additional factors that might play a role, such as quality of the electricity in your home or your area, which introduces unusual noise or harmonics, which causes an interference (at a certain frequency most likely) with sensitive electrical devices & chips and how they operate and process data. So it looks like apart from network related issues, there might be an additional or completely separate factor (electricity & 'noise' interference) that either contributes to the network problems or creates similar problems on its own.

Need numerical tests before and after. With a complete list of equipment and a step-by-step description of what they changed. On the basis of this data, it will be possible to make statistics and there will be ways to solve such problems for a particular person.
Stories about the fact that I came to a friend in another house, or I wrapped foil on a cable are boring.

Actually, going to your friends house or internet cafe with your own PC and seeing the problems suddenly and completely vanish proves that the problem exists. If you have spent 1000's of hours gaming you know exactly how game should feel like when it is working correctly and you feel & see immediately when it all changes, especially when the change is literally crippling to your performance. As for the numerical tests, i don't think you understand that these problems are most likely above the paygrade of 95% of both IT / Network Specialists and electricians. If you talk to the random specialist and try to explain the issue they either have no idea what you are talking about or claim it is impossible / highly unlikely & that there is no problem & look at you like you are a crazy person. When you actually try to talk to these people about the actual high level technical stuff, it is obvious that they have never dealt with these issues before, as they are only dealing with the regular day-to-day problems. Keep in mind, that all these problems (whatever they are, either network or & electrical) do not affect anything else you do in a major way. You can still use the internet and have high download speeds, and all your electrical devides are working fine without breaking down etc. This is good enough for most people, that is exactly why these issues are not widely known to the public. Games & gaming related issues are still a fringe territory. If electricity & 'noise interference' is in fact a contributing problem, then i don't think you can easily solve this issue without corporate / industrial / government / NASA level of expertise. Why ? Because this is where they care the most about clean, safe, secure and proper power usage & delivery to the highly sensitive devices that they are using and relying on. What this means to the casual gamer that wants to solve his problems ? It simply means price barrier, as testing, measurements, consultations and solutions at this level are not something that the common folk can afford. Most of these experts won't probably even talk to you if you are not a large company representative but a private citizen.

[Unixko]

its rly easy to understand that problem something is fucked up with mouse keyboard internet signal shown on display and its random during a day thats it

If everything is that easy, I have nothing to add.

I will try to explain this phenomenon to you, so just imagine this scenario. Lets pretend that ping measurement & implementation does not exist, just erase it from your memory and knowledge. Now, when you are gaming, sometimes during the day you will be unknowingly playing with ping 20-30 and sometimes it will be 60-80, 120-140 and 200-250 etc. In this scenario, you can see and feel the difference but you just don't know what the root cause of the problem is. You can see and feel the sudden change in game harmonics, change in perceived game fluidity, unusual enemy model movement / positioning changes (model stuttering during movement), weird delays / teleports, hit registration problems, weapon spray control difference, timing issues etc. But, without being aware of ping measurement & implementation you simply don't know what is causing these changes that affect your gameplay during different times of the day. This thread (and many others) are about the exact same thing. Its just that people describe what they see & feel in different words and they are using different terminology. This thread uses the incorrect term of "input lag" to describe the issue, but we are still dealing with some kind of a delays that is caused by *something* BUT not hardware.

We know that internet performance fluctuations during the day can also cause similar behaviours to occur, even without ping changing at all (!), all because how packets are being processed, prioritized & handleded within the network by your ISP in relation to all other traffic that is happening within the network. This is one part of the equation, and this has been known for nearly two decades. But there is a growing concern about additional factors that might play a role, such as quality of the electricity in your home or your area, which introduces unusual noise or harmonics, which causes an interference (at a certain frequency most likely) with sensitive electrical devices & chips and how they operate and process data. So it looks like apart from network related issues, there might be an additional or completely separate factor (electricity & 'noise' interference) that either contributes to the network problems or creates similar problems on its own.

Need numerical tests before and after. With a complete list of equipment and a step-by-step description of what they changed. On the basis of this data, it will be possible to make statistics and there will be ways to solve such problems for a particular person.
Stories about the fact that I came to a friend in another house, or I wrapped foil on a cable are boring.

Actually, going to your friends house or internet cafe with your own PC and seeing the problems suddenly and completely vanish proves that the problem exists. If you have spent 1000's of hours gaming you know exactly how game should feel like when it is working correctly and you feel & see immediately when it all changes, especially when the change is literally crippling to your performance. As for the numerical tests, i don't think you understand that these problems are most likely above the paygrade of 95% of both IT / Network Specialists and electricians. If you talk to the random specialist and try to explain the issue they either have no idea what you are talking about or claim it is impossible / highly unlikely & that there is no problem & look at you like you are a crazy person. When you actually try to talk to these people about the actual high level technical stuff, it is obvious that they have never dealt with these issues before, as they are only dealing with the regular day-to-day problems. Keep in mind, that all these problems (whatever they are, either network or & electrical) do not affect anything else you do in a major way. You can still use the internet and have high download speeds, and all your electrical devides are working fine without breaking down etc. This is good enough for most people, that is exactly why these issues are not widely known to the public. Games & gaming related issues are still a fringe territory. If electricity & 'noise interference' is in fact a contributing problem, then i don't think you can easily solve this issue without corporate / industrial / government / NASA level of expertise. Why ? Because this is where they care the most about clean, safe, secure and proper power usage & delivery to the highly sensitive devices that they are using and relying on. What this means to the casual gamer that wants to solve his problems ? It simply means price barrier, as testing, measurements, consultations and solutions at this level are not something that the common folk can afford. Most of these experts won't probably even talk to you if you are not a large company representative but a private citizen.

just tell him if he want to understand this problem just find someone from your location who has this problem and try to play on his location and then you will see why we talking about feels and not realdata

[delve]

can you name drop some of the cheap 1000fps cameras?

[nuggify]

Very well said Mello. As for what 1000WATT is asking he has a fair and valid point. However he has no clue the lengths we have gone to trying to correlate this issue with electrical measurements, or show via software montioring that something is amis. We have sunk thousands of dollars attempting to use different tools, hardware, internet solutions, and electrical devices to solve or diagnose this. We have hired proffessionals. We have seen how these electrical devices noticably affect the severity and sympyoms of the problem.

Now that being said thanks to one guy who finally got an engineer with the right equipment involved, we may soon know the interaction that causes this, and in turn be able to track the source of it all. Here is Jacks thread on the MikeHolt forums:
https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/hig ... 213/page-9

He does not even mention our problem here because proffesionals think we are a crazy for even stating our observations. So he sticks to the facts: His net current measurments and the investigation of them. Please just follow along (do not post in there), but this is where you can see his findings regarding the data the power monitor is collecting.

You may think this problem is placebo but when you experience it first hand- seeing the strange behaivor that you yourself can influence you will believe it.

[1000WATT]

well I understood you. I have a 100% solution for any degree of paranoia. related to the electrical network. And most importantly, it is cheap and easy to assemble.
1. You need an all-metal case for your pc's components.
2. The power supply unit must be taken out of the PC case.
This is to exclude the influence of electromagnetic radiation from the outside.
3. unpretentious UPS. can be used ...
4. car accumulator for 150 ampere hour. (if 1) It is enough for ~ 12 hours of using a PC with a consumption of 1000 watts.
You can use 3-4-5 as much space as there is under the bed, under the table, on the balcony, in the basement, etc.
5. charger for these batteries. Simple car charging.
All this on ebay will cost less than $ 200. To try.
If this solves your paranoid ideas. You will need to buy a quality 12-220 converter or the voltage that your country uses and leave it permanently. the batteries will have to be changed every 3-6 years.

But I think you prefer to call the electricians. Post countless threads on forums and say you've spent thousands of dollars looking for a problem.

It’s funny to see how a person who gets problems from grounding did not manage to simply not use grounding.

[Ekwalipt]

Ekwalipt
Regarding your YouTube video.
The percentage and number of professional cybersportsmen on the territory of the Russlan Federation and the CIS countries has nothing to do with the problems of the hardware level, including the input lag.
What kind of logic did you use to connect these two factors?
input lag is a worldwide problem and does not apply to individual countries.

If we talk about the number of e-sportsmen in the cis region. Everything is simple here. There are very weak e-sports organizations on the territory of the cis and there are no generous advertisers. Players are often not paid what they promised.
And the chances of getting into the European team are disastrously small.

Concerning input lag from your video.
As a native speaker, I could hardly understand what you wanted to tell the audience.
Why did you use a game with a limited maximum camera speed? This has nothing to do with input lag.

You are a schoolboy who only recently learned that input lag is made up of many intermediates.
And you immediately started coming up with an individual term for each.
How do you like that.
Information from the monitor to the eyes is input lag. Brain-to-finger information output delay.
Coming up with new terminology for anything you think is new makes it difficult to understand.

If you need a program to determine the artificial limitation of the speed of rotation of the camera in games and the likely acceleration at the software level. There she is. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kLdvVu ... sp=sharing

Actually, I didn't make a mistake in the terminology, but for a simpler understanding, I will use the term input lag of the monitor instead of the output lag of the monitor, if you want it that way.

Output lag is only possible for the monitor, speakers, and other output devices, so I used this term to avoid confusion with input devices(mouse, keyboard, etc)

As I said, if that's what you want, I can use the term" monitor input lag", but then people will think that the monitor input lag and the input lag caused by electricity problems are the same and they just add up increasing the time delay, but this is not the case.

The most important thing to understand is that input lag by definition means lagging behind the movement of the mouse or button. However, if we take into account the input that causes electricity, it has a completely different nature(it slows down the mouse in an extremely strange way that I'm still trying to understand). In Russla, we call this input lag "floating mouse" - the physics of movement in the game is really like in water, it floats and slows down. You can watch this on the videos I left on the first page of this topic.

I'll post one of these videos again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDYSu-TU25w

I used a game with an artificial input lag(AC Syndicate) to show how the mouse floats and how it slows down with fast and sharp movements. this is exactly what happens with an input lag of electricity(the same as an artificial input lag, only from electricity, not from the game) And it is very difficult to see it with the eye, only on a detailed comparison of the videos that I record and explain. So I used a game where the artificial input lag is large and can be seen with the eyes to show the process of the input lag itself and the bad action of electricity. This is necessary for people to better understand the problem

the picture on the monitor does not just lag behind the mouse movement, as with a normal input lag, namely the physics of the game slows down and floats(I realized this with the help of a game that I use as a device, hardly anyone knows about this in America, but the physics of the game changes, and not just the picture on the monitor is delayed- as if a hacker program or virus is changing the physics of the game, if I may say so).

Motion physics is slowed down when you press the motion button. It is the acceleration that slows down, not the maximum speed of the character. The speed of rotation with the mouse is lower than it should be(you put 1000 dpi, and the physics of the game looks like 600 dpi).

If you put the mouse sensitivity as eSports players, and it is almost all eSports players the same(800-1200 dpi*sens), it will always seem very small, very slow. Then you look at their records and get shocked at how much they have everything sharp with these settings.

A strong degree of input lag creates just such siptoms of floating physics, as if the game really slowed down the physics and all the movements. This is not due to the banal delay of the monitor.

You say that the number of eSports players does not depend on the fact that almost all people on the planet have input lag? Then you're wrong, because players like me would have a level of play no worse than Simple and the rest of the "legends" who are considered supposedly superhumans with super reactions, but these are ordinary people who have just perfect conditions and who are lucky and there are very few of them on the planet.

If you watch their hanshow during the cs game, you will notice that the so-called "legends" drive the mouse just like mid-level players. But their sharpness is much faster, which is why they win. And the problem is that very few people can see the different physics of the game with their eyes(people think that eSports players have lightning-fast hands, but as I said, the speed of their hands is the same as that of average players. The physics of the game deceives those who have it slower and they just don't know about it)

In this situation, people confuse the concept of "talent" with the concept of "ideal conditions".

12 years ago I started playing CS, but this game was so repugnant to me that I considered myself incapable, slow and far behind those who had input lag was smaller than me(at that time I did not know about the existence of input lag from electricity and I did not understand why in everything and in all cases I succeeded equally perfectly, but only in shooters including CS I could not rise even above the average level - this greatly puzzled me at that time).

I never played cs seriously, I thought that I was not allowed to play shooters. When I found out that I have input lag, my head clicked, my personality changed, because I realized that all this time I could have been in the place of the so-called "Legends", but instead I can not play even at the average level(so much input lag spoils the conditions for the game - from a professional to a novice)

P. S Someone was lucky more - someone's input lag is not as strong as mine .

So people are divided into average, professional, and legends - the one who has less input lag, the better. I'm not saying that a person's abilities don't solve anything. I say that first of all the level of the game is determined by the presence of equally ideal conditions for the game.

If I can't find an apartment in my city with the perfect electricity like an eSports player to take measurements and create a proof, then I will have to go to another city to see some eSports player to make high-quality measurements and bring the problem to a more global level, rather than just describe the sensations.

That is, I need to do a couple of experiments at home and in the house of an eSports player, where there is no input lag. This is the only way to prove the existence of this problem, but you know it's not easy to come to another city and even to a stranger.

All these siptoms are extremely difficult to accurately measure and record on camera, I have been trying to do this for a year and I think that I will be able to make it a real proof in the form of numbers, etc. when I find the "ideal conditions". As I have already said, such evidence is needed to move the problem to a more global level, and not to prove their case to non-believers.