Micro-stuttering / hitch & Frametime spikes issue

[EeK]

@EeK I think I was just imagining things - probably no difference between V-sync on and off. As I'm in the C9's Gsync range, V-sync shouldn't make a difference anyway, right?

Ah, yes. Forgot that VSync only kicks in if you go beyond the VRR range (the C9 has LFC due to its max range being 2.5x the minimum).

Having V-SYNC off will not affect the severity of frametime spikes. Those are independent of syncing methods. It will tear and stutter instead of just stutter in those instances though.

Yeah, I forgot about VSync's interaction with VRR, as I mentioned above, but, regardless, shouldn't stutters be represented in the frame time graph as spikes?

For tear-free G-SYNC yes, but it's up to the user to decide.

Gotcha, makes sense.

I own and played through it at launch. It's certainly a hard drive thrasher. This also affected consoles. It's the game; some UE4 games handle this better than others, but, no, UE4 doesn't seem to have a great streaming system either.

I have the game installed on a 1TB 970 Evo and it still hitches like crazy. Do you think a PCIe 4.0 SSD would make a difference, or is that title beyond saving, due to how it was coded/optimized?

[jorimt]

Yeah, I forgot about VSync's interaction with VRR, as I mentioned above, but, regardless, shouldn't stutters be represented in the frame time graph as spikes?

Most but not necessarily all. You'd need an external method (such as FCAT) for measuring frametime to get the full picture where spikes are concerned.

E.g. RTSS may be flat in some instances, yet you may still see stutter with your eyes; there are limitations in what can be monitored when the system is measuring itself.

I have the game installed on a 1TB 970 Evo and it still hitches like crazy. Do you think a PCIe 4.0 SSD would make a difference, or is that title beyond saving, due to how it was coded/optimized?

Due to how it's coded in this case. They'd have to rewrite the streaming management system to suit SSD, which if done right, would make it near unusable on an HDD, which is why 99% of games don't.

Hopefully this will begin to change with the advent of high performance SSDs (prioritizing more instantaneous asset streaming) becoming normalized on next-gen consoles.

[1000WATT]

Also, you mentioned that UE3 is bad with streaming assets in open world titles, guess UE4 is the same, as I've been playing Jedi: Fallen Order, and getting constant hitches/stutters when loading new areas/streaming assets - and that's not even a true open world game! They don't even do a good job at hiding the texture streaming, as you can see loads of pop-in for all sorts of assets in the scenery.

I own and played through it at launch. It's certainly a hard drive thrasher. This also affected consoles. It's the game; some UE4 games handle this better than others, but, no, UE4 doesn't seem to have a great streaming system either.

It's strange. I have not noticed anything unusual. In my opinion, this is not much different from the witcher or any other open world game.

[jorimt]

It's strange. I have not noticed anything unusual. In my opinion, this is not much different from the witcher or any other open world game.

I haven't played it since it launched, so it's possible they improved it.

[EeK]

It's strange. I have not noticed anything unusual. In my opinion, this is not much different from the witcher or any other open world game.

I haven't played it since it launched, so it's possible they improved it.

They haven't.

[jorimt]

They haven't.

That's definitely not great, but it's honestly not as bad as I remember it; at launch, sometimes just turning the camera would cause 1-2 second halts, and that was on my 960 Evo SSD.

As your video depicts, Fallen Order's levels are broken up into chunks with "transition" triggers when you cross into a new one, causing repeatable stutter. In the "old days" these would trigger a load screen (aka Half Life 2) instead of opting for loading in real-time.

On consoles with certain HDDs in Fallen Order, there were frequent several second halts in key transition areas at launch, which I believe they alleviated after a couple of patches.

It would be interesting to see if the game on Xbox Series X takes advantage of the SSD performance to alleviate these transitional loads.

Anyway, frametime spike tolerance, and the definition of "acceptable" and "unacceptable" frametime peformance varies highly depending on the individual, it seems.

[1000WATT]

If it's not difficult for you, please give me the save files (of this location in the game). I want to see it with my own eyes.

Anyway, frametime spike tolerance, and the definition of "acceptable" and "unacceptable" frametime peformance varies highly depending on the individual, it seems.

Yes, no doubt about it.

[jorimt]

If it's not difficult for you, please give me the save files (of this location in the game). I want to see it with my own eyes.

Planet Zeffo, location below:



I'm getting the same stutter depicted in the video. That said, I currently have it installed on my HDD.

[EeK]

As I mentioned, I have Fallen Order installed on a 1TB 970 Evo, and the stutters are so frequent that I'm about to give up on the game entirely.

I can't think of any other titles that hitch this bad except maybe for the original Crysis - and even that game only stutters during checkpoints.

[jorimt]

As I mentioned, I have Fallen Order installed on a 1TB 970 Evo, and the stutters are so frequent that I'm about to give up on the game entirely.

Yeah, again, it's too bad they didn't prioritize this better during development.

Contrary to common assumption, SSDs (on PC) currently only alleviate load times, not asset loading stutter, as the majority of games are not coded to take advantage of SSD in this respect.

Start at the below post and read downward (if you haven't already) for some of the technical reasoning:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7603&p=58301&hilit=console#p58301