Crosstalk more a problem than Ghosting itself ? [ DyAc Strobing Crosstalk Issue ]

[Anonymous316387]

Hi, i think I had about 4 XL2546K and an XL2566K, it's simple.


I have never been able to play DyAc ( Strobing ) properly/concretely on these monitors with any consistency when focusing on a fast moving enemy, however, you are going to tell me, should it be the opposite? yes but on paper, at least, on these Zowie, from my experience.

I mean, it's amazing to have a strobe with such a strong brightness and I know there's worse!

However, the crosstalk brought by the strobing and particularly the DyAc here, is just counterproductive, i see less well than without, I feel distracted and a little feeling of "nausea" appears if I focus too much on this point (even if I do 240fps constantly!) i have this weird crosstalk artifact.

And I don't understand why hardly anyone complains about Crosstalk even on this Forum, am I the only one to be so bothered by this?


For example, I much prefer an image like this ( just a simple ghosting effect and overdrive settings ) :



Than this ( Crosstalk and Overshoot ) :



I know we can tune the strobe with BlurBusterUtility (come on, it's my 4th XL2546K!) but i've never managed to get anything "decent" and i know there is worse but i think i'm one of the people most sensitive to crosstalk, it's the artifact i hate the most, always an after image and sometimes overshoot due to too strong Overdrive settings ( on the other hand, the XG2431 was better! ) and this XL2546K, like my previous XL2566K was horrible and clearly does not benefit me in "aiming" ( ofc ), playing Apex, I need reduced blur, however, in my honest opinion, 1440p, 27 inches and high brightness helps me better than "strobing" because motion blur is not the only thing considered to be comfortable and have an advantage on FPS games.

In addition, the Strobing reinforces the jerkiness effect (since there is no G-Sync/VRR) and therefore the gameplay is really not smooth...

I wanted to know if you manage to play with the DyAc and how you manage not to be bothered by the crosstalk which for me remains a much more annoying thing than the motion blur itself !

Oh, and noticed a lot of coil whine from my XL2546K and XL2566K, strange monitors



I used this monitor mainly for COD Cold War / Apex Legends and Osu!, it is now replaced by an XG2431.

[AddictFPS]

To get low crosstalk with XL2566K, would be more like: CRU custom 100Hz with QFT, and fine tune with BB app.

Even on current eSports grade LCD, total response time overshot/undershot free is slow, from 1.1ms up to disappointing 11.3ms

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... ie-xl2566k

(1000ms/s / (11.3ms + 2,78ms "360Hz scanout")) = 71 FPS/Hz is aprox. the max 100% crosstalk free this monitor can do.

With 100Hz can be traded -blur +lag , but lag in eSports is a big NO.

You're right, heavy crosstalk and overshot at high freq. is unbearable for most players.

11.3ms in eSports grade 720 EUR monitor, is a bottleneck that should be removed.

I hope Zowie OLED 24.5" 360Hz+ come soon, with a 3 years warranty that cover dead pixels and burn-in, like Corsair says of incoming 27" OLED QHD 240Hz with LG Display panel. Alienware OLED warranty also cover burn-in with Samsung QD-OLED panel.

Raw total response time of these new 27" OLED 240Hz monitors is always under 1ms, 27GR95QE, PG27AQDM, X27U, microseconds territory should be the standard eSport response time.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/27gr95qe-b

This LG has up to (2.8 - 6.0ms) spikes due to undershot and overshot issues, this first gen 240Hz OLED are a bit overdrive forced, but even with this limit, is ~2x more fast than Fast-TN in the worst case.

Comparing pursuit screenshots 27GR95QE Vs XL2566K non strobed max. freq. i see in both low motion blur, very nice quality non-strobed. But Fast-TN show these ugly black shadows at left and right.

[Anonymous316387]

To get low crosstalk with XL2566K, would be more like: CRU custom 100Hz with QFT, and fine tune with BB app.

Even on current eSports grade LCD, total response time overshot/undershot free is slow, from 1.1ms up to disappointing 11.3ms

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... ie-xl2566k

(1000ms/s / (11.3ms + 2,78ms "360Hz scanout")) = 71 FPS/Hz is aprox. the max 100% crosstalk free this monitor can do.

With 100Hz can be traded -blur +lag , but lag in eSports is a big NO.

You're right, heavy crosstalk and overshot at high freq. is unbearable for most players.

11.3ms in eSports grade 720 EUR monitor, is a bottleneck that should be removed.

I hope Zowie OLED 24.5" 360Hz+ come soon, with a 3 years warranty that cover dead pixels and burn-in, like Corsair says of incoming 27" OLED QHD 240Hz with LG Display panel. Alienware OLED warranty also cover burn-in with Samsung QD-OLED panel.

Raw total response time of these new 27" OLED 240Hz monitors is always under 1ms, 27GR95QE, PG27AQDM, X27U, microseconds territory should be the standard eSport response time.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/27gr95qe-b

This LG has up to (2.8 - 6.0ms) spikes due to undershot and overshot issues, this first gen 240Hz OLED are a bit overdrive forced, but even with this limit, is ~2x more fast than Fast-TN in the worst case.

Comparing pursuit screenshots 27GR95QE Vs XL2566K non strobed max. freq. i see in both low motion blur, very nice quality non-strobed. But Fast-TN show these ugly black shadows at left and right.

Thank you for your answer, unfortunately I'm talking about the XL2546K....the XL2566K I had sent it back because in the end the 360hz is useless for Apex Legends and adds latency.

I don't know the CRU software, wtf what is it for?

So you advise to play in 100hz with the XL2566K to have no crosstalk? but...doesn't that make sense?

The time when we play on cathodic with 16ms of 60hz but without motion blur no longer exists, I can understand that some people still like cathodic today but with their filthy colors, their strobing, 60hz and their small size, no.

So I can understand, because here on BlurBuster the basic subject is pure motion blur but not only!

And the problem is that as you said 100hz strobing = too much latency (and who is going to buy a BenQ XL2566K at more than 600 euros to play at 100hz just to have "no crosstalk") nobody.

And I highly doubt that it helps you play better.

Even if your idea is interesting huh! (even if i'm talking about the XL2546K basically xD)


You have said

You're right, heavy crosstalk and overshot at high freq. is unbearable for most players

THANKS ! finally someone who thinks like me, I thought I was going crazy! moreover, who uses strobing in esports or even high-level games? nobody, only a few random people playing Apex/Cs:Go/Overwatch/Valorant etc use strobing, every time a high level player (especially on Apex Legend) uses strobing, in the end he takes it away, either he doesn't like it, or he finds it meh or "ok"

You also said

11.3ms in eSports grade 720 EUR monitor, is a bottleneck that should be removed.

Are you using the Rtings charts?
Because when you look at the low response times even of the best IPS/TN, it's never below 10 or 8ms (for the black response time)

For you, what is/are the best screen actually(s)?


And you said

But Fast-TN show these ugly black shadows at left and right.

Ah! finally someone talking about that! it's black smearing isn't it?
I NEVER heard people say "damn I have a black trail on my TN" when they almost all do (even on the Rtings UFO test we see it).
Isn't that the same thing that VAs do, by the way? (black smearing)

Finally, yes you're right ... OLEDs are the best of the best!
Even if people say he finds it not that good and that the XL2566K in 360hz custom strobing is better that OLED motion blur handling/performance, I don't believe it, I saw it in front of my eyes, it was good but not "incredible" as it leaves claim the majority, while my LG OLED 48A1 TV is just a 60hz, I find it more readable than my old XL2566K lol

For me the only oled deal breaker and why I don't want it:

- The price
- Low brightness
- Weird sub-pixel ( WBGR ? ) who make text and crosshair look weird/bad
- Danger of burn-in

So i try to find a very good IPS, for me the one that comes close to what I want is the XG2431 but I would try other 1440p because I like the 27 inch and the sharpness of 1440p.

For me, VA and TN are dead, i don't want them anymore.

[Traveler]

...the XL2566K I had sent it back because in the end the 360hz is useless for Apex Legends and adds latency.

How can higher refresh rate add latency?

[AddictFPS]

CRU "Custom Resolution Utility" is very useful for tweak monitor, read physical EDID, spawn virtual EDID, edit virtual copy, and apply changes. Phisical EDID is not edited.

100Hz strobed with low crosstalk is a nice optional feature, when a bit of lag no matter, like enjoy some single player with motion CRT like, or simple desktop tasks like scroll web or documents with text allways focused.

For this task, XG2431 has the best strobe settings freedom, and XL2566K / XL2546K the best backlight spikes. Hope a mix of both come soon. I want know specs of the next BlurBusters 2.0 monitor !

Rtings charts, the oscilloscope screenshots is my reference to see the raw cicle. All LCD show high total response spikes, is lazy by nature.



Even PG27AQN, with dual scanout circuit, max. total response is 8.1ms.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... hz-pg27aqn

And this 27" IPS QHD 360Hz beast not have strobing... this should be considered crime, what a waste ! Nvidia ULMB Off with these specs, i can't understand...

Best monitor for online competitive: 25" XL2566K | 27" PG27AQN

Yes, black smearing, like VA. Both are specialy lazy "from dark to", but there are one trick to reduce it, at cost of lose contrast. Increase the Zowie Black eQualizer feature. Each manufacturer name it different. Increase brightness only of dark colors. Designed to punish campers, collaterally reduce black smearing.

[Anonymous316387]

CRU "Custom Resolution Utility" is very useful for tweak monitor, read physical EDID, spawn virtual EDID, edit virtual copy, and apply changes. Phisical EDID is not edited.

100Hz strobed with low crosstalk is a nice optional feature, when a bit of lag no matter, like enjoy some single player with motion CRT like, or simple desktop tasks like scroll web or documents with text allways focused.

For this task, XG2431 has the best strobe settings freedom, and XL2566K / XL2546K the best backlight spikes. Hope a mix of both come soon. I want know specs of the next BlurBusters 2.0 monitor !

Rtings charts, the oscilloscope screenshots is my reference to see the raw cicle. All LCD show high total response spikes, is lazy by nature.



Even PG27AQN, with dual scanout circuit, max. total response is 8.1ms.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... hz-pg27aqn

And this 27" IPS QHD 360Hz beast not have strobing... this should be considered crime, what a waste ! Nvidia ULMB Off with these specs, i can't understand...

Best monitor for online competitive: 25" XL2566K | 27" PG27AQN

Yes, black smearing, like VA. Both are specialy lazy "from dark to", but there are one trick to reduce it, at cost of lose contrast. Increase the Zowie Black eQualizer feature. Each manufacturer name it different. Increase brightness only of dark colors. Designed to punish campers, collaterally reduce black smearing.

Mmmh for me it doesn't seem that useful, just to do niche stuff at low hertz and to see technical characteristics?

What is EDID? I'm not supposed to know.

Maybe for you 100hz without crosstalk is "good" but where did you see that anyway? can you post pictures/videos here?

But for me 100hz in strobing is completely useless, for single player games I play at 60hz on my OLED TV with a PS5 controller, ( and playing with a TN in a solo game...just no ) I don't need more, because for single player games I want the best sharpness, my LG TV is OLED 4K with a Glossy panel so it's perfect (even if indeed LG OLED 120hz is necessarily better)

I don't like strobing, there's always crosstalk and even if the crosstalk of the XL2566K/XL2546K is weak, I notice it a lot, I'm even more sensitive to crosstalk than to ghosting, that's how I is part of the Anti-Strobing team, for me it is not the solution and in the end does it benefit me or help me to see better? no, in addition it gives me headaches because my eyes force to focus a strobe image.

Strangely the XG2431 does not give me headaches but not bright enough in strobe (and it's the only good strobe for me)

Yes me too I ONLY rely on Rtings for this, however you missed something, yes the faster Asus IPS goes to 8.1ms as you said with the asus but look, the XG2431 arrives around 4.1ms!


You can see that they have put another test with native colors below the initial test, the results are breathtaking (by the way, I don't understand why they haven't updated the test...and why they leave the test performed in Color User who raises the screen to 10ms, it lowers his score for nothing.


( with only Native color accuracy ) it's even faster than TN!
That's why the viewsonic is underrated, because without strobing it crushes the competition (of course let's stay reasonable, I'm only talking about 240hz vs 240hz) you're talking about 360hz ( ans it's good huh ! ) but personally I don't want it because I mainly play has Apex Legends and therefore creates Latency.

[Anonymous316387]

...the XL2566K I had sent it back because in the end the 360hz is useless for Apex Legends and adds latency.

How can higher refresh rate add latency?

As I said, on Apex Legends, I mainly play it.

For example Apex Legends is limited to 300fps max and even with the biggest configuration, you can have a hell of a FPS drop.

Putting a 360hz screen with a framerate limited to 300 which, on top of that, will have drops well below this logically creates latency.

You can try for yourself, on a game, put your screen at 360hz and put in 60FPS with graphics, you will have a funny feeling (because you go from -~4ms 360hz to +16ms~ with the 60FPS lock)

A screen that is supposed to be running has a high hertz rate if it has too low FPS it will create input lag.

[Grasshopper24]

...the XL2566K I had sent it back because in the end the 360hz is useless for Apex Legends and adds latency.

How can higher refresh rate add latency?

As I said, on Apex Legends, I mainly play it.

For example Apex Legends is limited to 300fps max and even with the biggest configuration, you can have a hell of a FPS drop.

Putting a 360hz screen with a framerate limited to 300 which, on top of that, will have drops well below this logically creates latency.

You can try for yourself, on a game, put your screen at 360hz and put in 60FPS with graphics, you will have a funny feeling (because you go from -~4ms 360hz to +16ms~ with the 60FPS lock)

A screen that is supposed to be running has a high hertz rate if it has too low FPS it will create input lag.

This is not how latency (input lag) for monitors works.
Higher refresh rate will always have lower latency.
For example, 240 fps at 360hz will have less input lag than 240 fps at 240hz due to more refreshes per second.

Maybe you are referring to screen tearing or jitteriness when fps is far below refresh rate. Like during a frame spike or 1% low or when fps dips, your game might stutter and feel laggy. This is more so on the GPU/CPU side than display.

[Chief Blur Buster]

So you advise to play in 100hz with the XL2566K to have no crosstalk? but...doesn't that make sense?

There are two different causes of duplicate images on a strobed LCD; low frame rates (like CRT 30fps at 60Hz) and strobe crosstalk (caused by LCD GtG too slow to finish between refresh cycles)

1. Refresh rate headroom reduces strobe crosstalk and duplicate images.
Lower Hz on a fast-scanning panel = can create more time for LCD GtG to finish between refresh cycles unseen by human eyes. Here's a video of what a strobe backlight can do, as a screen refreshes slowly top-to-bottom. Here's our famous LightBoost video from a decade ago:

phpBB [video]

2. Doing framerate=Hz is easier at lower Hz, reducing double images further.



The duplicate image problem can cause the monitor to feel "artifically laggy". This is why, in some cases, a single-image effect at a perfect framerate=Hz

There's a continuum of slightly less and less strobe crosstalk the lower Hz you go. 350Hz will have literally 1% less crosstalk than 360Hz, and then keep going down, 340Hz, 330Hz, 320Hz, etc, until you're able to do ultra large Vertical Totals that more successfully hides LCD GtG between refresh cycles.

Now view www.testufo.com/crosstalk and you see duplicate image effects, if the screen is panning fast enough;



QFT 100Hz is a 100Hz mode that refreshes in 1/240sec or 1/360sec. During QFT 100Hz on a 240Hz panel, you can have 4.2ms of panel-refrehsing and 6.8ms of panel-idling. Not all pixels refresh the same time, see videos at www.blurbusters.com/scanout for videos too. And when the panel finishes scanning out, you still need time for LCD GtG (pixels fading from one color to the next) to finish. The strobe backlight can be kept completely turned off longer after a refresh cycle, to let LCD GtG finish before flashing the backlight. You can have perfect CRT motion clarity at 100Hz on a 240Hz-360Hz LCD, which is why ViewSonic XG2431 is one of the best strobed panels on the market;

Now, ToastyX CRU is needed to create a custom low Hz mode that scans-out at maximum velocity, because normal low-Hz modes are laggy by default. A low-Hz mode that scans out at max-Hz velocity (with long idle periods between refresh cycles to more completely hide LCD GtG between refresh cycles)

Also, if you want TestUFO-smooth in Apex Legends, you want a framerate=Hz sync technology such as VSYNC ON. But VSYNC ON is laggy, so you may need to use a custom framerate=Hz sync technology such as RTSS Scanline Sync, but you need to target a framerate that only consumes ~50% of the GPU, and that can cause you to need to use ~120-180fps in a game like DOTA2, to get perfect TestUFO-smooth DOTA2 pans perfectly as smooth as www.testufo.com/map -- zero jitter, zero double images, etc.

If you prefer VSYNC OFF, then you need overkill framerates far beyond Hz, to prevent the annoying strobe-amplified jitters/stutters.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Putting a 360hz screen with a framerate limited to 300 which, on top of that, will have drops well below this logically creates latency.

That's a GPU-derived latency, not monitor-derived latency.

Now that being said... You can still create a 240Hz or 300Hz QFT mode on a 360Hz monitor, where you have a 240Hz mode that transmits refresh cycles in 1/360sec. This advanced trick can rescue the latency of a ultra high Hz monitor. 240fps 240Hz transmitted in 1/240sec over cable is laggier than a custom 240fps 240Hz QFT mode (created in ToastyX CRU Vertical Total Calculator) transmitting the frames over the DisplayPort cable in 1/360sec apiece, despite refresh rate being only 240Hz.

Remember, cables are simply a serialization of 2D picture data in a 1D data:



This is sort of a "virtual resolution", which is how it's transmitted over a video cable, one pixel row at a time, from top to bottom, to transfer a refresh cycle from the computer to the display.

ToastyX and Custom Resolution Utilities (e.g. NVIDIA Control Panel) allows you to manipulate the signal structure, to do magical things such as making the visible part transmit faster (via a higher horizontal scan rate at lower refresh rate, via adding more dummy padding to the vertical blanking intervals)

In other words, ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility is a method of hacking this video signal.