Unexplainable input lag/delay issue - VALORANT/KVKS/AL/CS2

[kyube]

I got a custom PC around a year ago with a 9800X3D, ASUS TUF B650 (previously the Gigabyte B650 version, but the PCB phases were horrible and it would also freeze when searching in BIOS), be quiet! 850W Gold, Inno3D 5070, and 2x16 GB G.Skill CL30 6000 MHz (F6-6000J3636F16) Samsung B-die.

I'm now on stock windows (23h2), was previously on 24h2. CMOS reset BIOS as well.

- What does your peripheral stack look like right now?

- Have you tested any other games apart from those 4? All those 4 games have specific pesky issues which can impact overall “feel”, which not many people are aware of & can cloud your perception. (i.e.: Kovaaks & AimLabs both lack a separate input thread; Valorant & CS2 have non-working Reflex due to some bug in Flip model)
Perhaps trying Overwatch, Apex Legends & AimBeasts might be a bit better in this regard)

- Could you detail your entire networking setup? As in, router, cables used, which server you're connecting to (total ping)
There is a slight (non-zero, but slim) chance it could be NIC driver related. Realtek 1/2.5GbE, later Intel 1GbE & 2.5GbE can be shoddy at times. Take this claim with a grain of salt.

- Do you live in a region where solar panels are prevalent? Have you noticed a difference between cloudy & sunny days? If possible, transferring your system into a different area (to iron out potential power quality concerns) may be a path you can choose.

- Have you tried playing some offline game?

- Do you have any underlying medical condition or use any medication which may impact your perception?

Note: There is a slight possibility of some HW defect in your CPU, which can impact your overall perception as well.

[Hyote]

In terms of optimization services you picked the most meme-able people. I would not trust someone with optimizing my PC (or attempt to do it better than me) but LuSlower or Beyond Performance are the best you can find. Otherwise you mentioned nothing about trying to dive deeper in BIOS or Windows. All you mentioned is trying things back and forth and buying new equipment. Everyone else with the problem agrees that it's currently not fixable with anything but I say if you get your stuff right it's bearable.
Read the valleyofdoom and Calypto optimization guides, go to my GitHub page for AMD specific SCEWIN settings. If there is a need, I can send a PDF on AM4 and 5 overclocking guide if I find it.

what you think about ninfrag? Who optimised all the brazillian pros including fallen kscerato boltz etc.

Definitely a no. I don't know the intentions of those people or the level of qualification they really have but those who actually have some things to show up are the two I mentioned plus the SapphireOS creator, Hickensa.

[Kal]

- What does your peripheral stack look like right now?
WL beast x 4k, Wooting 60he+ & Hyperx cloud 2.

- Have you tested any other games apart from those 4? All those 4 games have specific pesky issues which can impact overall “feel”, which not many people are aware of & can cloud your perception. (i.e.: Kovaaks & AimLabs both lack a separate input thread; Valorant & CS2 have non-working Reflex due to some bug in Flip model)
Perhaps trying Overwatch, Apex Legends & AimBeasts might be a bit better in this regard)
I haven't, but these were the main games I played on my laptop and the difference is there. The slight feeling that it is delayed, it's not some noticeable stutters or anything. Quite hard to explain, but it doesn't show at all in benchmarks or stress tests that there is something wrong.

- Could you detail your entire networking setup? As in, router, cables used, which server you're connecting to (total ping)
There is a slight (non-zero, but slim) chance it could be NIC driver related. Realtek 1/2.5GbE, later Intel 1GbE & 2.5GbE can be shoddy at times. Take this claim with a grain of salt.
I do have a realtek 2.5GbE adapter which I have tried messing with downloading different versions of it and disabling the power saving features, trying the offload/RSS etc.
Aside from that, I'm currently on DSL (Fiber has yet to come to my street) with a Fritzbox 7630 router which I have connected to a powerline from TP LINK PA7017P and one directly at my computer. I'm using a cat6 cable for both to the router and to my PC. I usually average a total ping of 24-26 (Frankfurt/London) and jitter is around 2-5ms in game, at night it's around 1-3ms, but it doesn't make a huge difference.

- Do you live in a region where solar panels are prevalent? Have you noticed a difference between cloudy & sunny days? If possible, transferring your system into a different area (to iron out potential power quality concerns) may be a path you can choose.
Both my neighbours have them, it is pretty much everywhere I'd say. I wouldn't say I've noticed a difference between cloudy and sunny days. Are you talking about different area as in a different place from where I live or a room? I have tried playing downstairs directly connected to the router with a distance of like 3 meter which did not help.

- Have you tried playing some offline game?

I've tried playing kovaaks offline by downloading the scenarios beforehand.
- Do you have any underlying medical condition or use any medication which may impact your perception?
I do not.
I have exams, so sorry for my late response.

Note: There is a slight possibility of some HW defect in your CPU, which can impact your overall perception as well.

[Kal]

- What does your peripheral stack look like right now?
WL beast x 4k, Wooting 60he+ & Hyperx cloud 2.

- Have you tested any other games apart from those 4? All those 4 games have specific pesky issues which can impact overall “feel”, which not many people are aware of & can cloud your perception. (i.e.: Kovaaks & AimLabs both lack a separate input thread; Valorant & CS2 have non-working Reflex due to some bug in Flip model)
Perhaps trying Overwatch, Apex Legends & AimBeasts might be a bit better in this regard)

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I haven't, but these were the main games I played on my laptop and the difference is there. The slight feeling that it is delayed, it's not some noticeable stutters or anything. Quite hard to explain, but it doesn't show at all in benchmarks or stress tests that there is something wrong.
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- Could you detail your entire networking setup? As in, router, cables used, which server you're connecting to (total ping)
There is a slight (non-zero, but slim) chance it could be NIC driver related. Realtek 1/2.5GbE, later Intel 1GbE & 2.5GbE can be shoddy at times. Take this claim with a grain of salt.

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I do have a realtek 2.5GbE adapter which I have tried messing with downloading different versions of it and disabling the power saving features, trying the offload/RSS etc.
Aside from that, I'm currently on DSL (Fiber has yet to come to my street) with a Fritzbox 7630 router which I have connected to a powerline from TP LINK PA7017P and one directly at my computer. I'm using a cat6 cable for both to the router and to my PC. I usually average a total ping of 24-26 (Frankfurt/London) and jitter is around 2-5ms in game, at night it's around 1-3ms, but it doesn't make a huge difference.
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- Do you live in a region where solar panels are prevalent? Have you noticed a difference between cloudy & sunny days? If possible, transferring your system into a different area (to iron out potential power quality concerns) may be a path you can choose.
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Both my neighbours have them, it is pretty much everywhere I'd say. I wouldn't say I've noticed a difference between cloudy and sunny days. Are you talking about different area as in a different place from where I live or a room? I have tried playing downstairs directly connected to the router with a distance of like 3 meter which did not help.
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- Have you tried playing some offline game?

I've tried playing kovaaks offline by downloading the scenarios beforehand.
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- Do you have any underlying medical condition or use any medication which may impact your perception?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not.
I have exams, so sorry for my late response.

Note: There is a slight possibility of some HW defect in your CPU, which can impact your overall perception as well.

[kyube]

WL beast x 4k, Wooting 60he+ & Hyperx cloud 2.

A wireless mouse completely renders troubleshooting futile, as you're at the mercy of the signal integrity in your room.
Consider trying out a good wired mouse (DAV3, V8K, Haste V2, OP1 8K, XM2 8K etc.)

Cloud II's are a USB-only audio solution, which is detrimental to troubleshooting latency-related topics.
Consider swapping to a 3.5mm-based audio solution.

I haven't, but these were the main games I played on my laptop and the difference is there. The slight feeling that it is delayed, it's not some noticeable stutters or anything. Quite hard to explain, but it doesn't show at all in benchmarks or stress tests that there is something wrong.

I'm very certain that it is possible to quantify the vast majority of the anecdotes which can be attributed to “delayed feel”
What have you tried?

I do have a realtek 2.5GbE adapter which I have tried messing with downloading different versions of it and disabling the power saving features, trying the offload/RSS etc.
Aside from that, I'm currently on DSL (Fiber has yet to come to my street) with a Fritzbox 7630 router which I have connected to a powerline from TP LINK PA7017P and one directly at my computer. I'm using a cat6 cable for both to the router and to my PC. I usually average a total ping of 24-26 (Frankfurt/London) and jitter is around 2-5ms in game, at night it's around 1-3ms, but it doesn't make a huge difference.

That's a large bottleneck in online gaming spotted already.
I've read of complaints in German-speaking latency-oriented communities that their network performance is a bit on the lower-end of quality.
There's a possibility that jumping on fiber would alleviate potential bottlenecks.

Both my neighbours have them, it is pretty much everywhere I'd say. I wouldn't say I've noticed a difference between cloudy and sunny days. Are you talking about different area as in a different place from where I live or a room? I have tried playing downstairs directly connected to the router with a distance of like 3 meter which did not help.

That's a large potential bottleneck in power quality already.
WIth different area, I've meant a different neighbourhood, city or country.
Ideally, as close to the ground as possible (on the ground floor, not in a tall building)

I've tried playing kovaaks offline by downloading the scenarios beforehand.

There's still a potential game-related bottleneck even then, as Kovaak's is a horribly optimized title.


A tip for for your next reply:
Try encassing my paragraphs with "quote=kyube..." beep "/quote" & then place your reply under it

[Kal]

A wireless mouse completely renders troubleshooting futile, as you're at the mercy of the signal integrity in your room.
Consider trying out a good wired mouse (DAV3, V8K, Haste V2, OP1 8K, XM2 8K etc.)

I'll look when there's a sale, but I have gone through a numerous of high quality mice and it didn't make much of a difference. I'm currently just using a GPX2 - wired/wireless makes no difference.

edit: I bought the op1 8k v2 with saturn pro soft and artisan dots
edit 2: tested them, no difference.

Cloud II's are a USB-only audio solution, which is detrimental to troubleshooting latency-related topics.
Consider swapping to a 3.5mm-based audio solution.

It's possible to use this Cloud II as 3.5mm no? I just have to take out the USB sound card.

I'm very certain that it is possible to quantify the vast majority of the anecdotes which can be attributed to “delayed feel”
What have you tried?

BIOS:

- PBO (scalar 1x/x10, PBO limits Manual, PPT, TDC and EDC 65535000, PBO set to 200 (positive))
- Undervolt -15/-20
- RAM tunings: 1.25 voc, dram vdd & vddq 1.43, refresh Interval 65535, tWR 48,tRRDL 10, tWTRL 20, tRDWR 20, tRTP 18
- Disabling any power saving features
- SMT on/off
- USB Configuration: XHCI Hand-off & Disabled, Legacy USB Support disabled
- Onboard Devices Configuration: Native ASPM & CPU PCIe ASPM disabled
- NB Configuration: Integrated Graphics disabled
A lot more, but I'm currently on stock.

WINDOWS:
- Everything you can imagine, disabling any unneeded services.
- HAGS on/off (I know that a large portion of the workload gets moved to a dedicated processor on the GPU so it's actually better to have it on)
- Game mode on/off
- Any win32 priority, even though it barely matters.
- Disabling FSO and checking the scaling box.
- Playing around with affinities (process lasso = core 0 on/off, SMT on/off)
- Vsynce/Gsynce tech
- Capping using rtss, nvidia ingame etc.
- Audio enchancements off
- GPU/Displaying scaling + lower refresh rate.
- Powerplan balanced/high as well as disabling any power saving management settings on it.
I probably forgot A LOT more, but it has been a year of so trial and erroring.
Peripherals switched motherboard, PSU (it got hit by a power surge once), mouse, monitor (three times), power lines/adapters (both wifi/ethernet).

I have been playing with FSO disabled which I always used to do on my laptop. It's been a better experience so far, but it's still not there. As well as disabling REFLEX in game. I feel like it's a DWM issue or a GPU issue. I apparently had Low Latency Mode on ULTRA while having it OFF in Valorant and it undoubtedly felt better. For Kovaaks it's the opposite, it has to be OFF but in-game OFF/ENABLED feels better.

That's a large bottleneck in online gaming spotted already.
I've read of complaints in German-speaking latency-oriented communities that their network performance is a bit on the lower-end of quality.
There's a possibility that jumping on fiber would alleviate potential bottlenecks.

Yeah, I've heard this as well. Unluckily my router doesn't have any grandious features that can help with bufferbloat in the first place besides putting my PC as a "high priority". There's a hidden page where you can set the limit to the bandwith which helps with jitter. Some kind of "Upstream optimizing" with two settings 1. Tack period in jiffies 2. tack count and some package hardware acceleration which I've tried to play around with.

There's one thing that did wonders though. I had a TP wifi adapter laying around which I plugged into the socket outside of my room, but it's quite literally on the wall next to it. For some reason this works a billion times better than the powerline plugged in directly into the router and into the socket next to my PC. I have less than 0.6ms continues jitter with no spikes on a wifi adapter that can't even put up a mesh system with fritzbox. This is only doable if you use their stuff, but that costs a lot of money. So it just works as a normal adapter. On my powerline I have 2-4 ms jetter.

That's a large potential bottleneck in power quality already.
WIth different area, I've meant a different neighbourhood, city or country.
Ideally, as close to the ground as possible (on the ground floor, not in a tall building)

Yeah, this won't be possible to do. I live in a three-story building and my room is on the highest.

There's still a potential game-related bottleneck even then, as Kovaak's is a horribly optimized title.

What game do you recommend to test it out?

I'm done with my exams so I'll be able to answer more quickly from now on.

[Leris]

Joining in.

I primarily play valorant and am suffering from the same issue of being seemingly half a second or so behind everyone and getting no time to react in both peeking and being peeked scenarios.
I got fed up of it and ultimately uninstalled the game for good.

But recently I got static ip and it had been a while so I hopped back in to check if the problem persists. Took a while to get used to the game again and confirmed that the issue still persists.
Uninstalled the game again and this time installed CS2.

After installation, the first session seemed crispy. Shots landing as expected and getting enough time to get my shots in.
Next day, same issue here as well, like valorant.

Now, I've been trying to pinpoint the problem for a couple years too and have tried most, if not all, tweaks what OP mentioned for valorant.
In my case, whatever changes or tweaks that I made, the crispiness that I felt was temporary and it went away after a short period of time, varying from a few matches to a couple hours. Like, at first disabling hyper-threading brought back the fair fights. So did lowering ram frequency and playing with timings or assigning priority to GPU with msi mode etc. However, I observed this was mostly when these tweaks were first made. Making these changes/tweaks again did nothing going forward most of the time.

I've changed many ISPs and I noticed that I got this temporary fix for a couple of hours with each new ISP.
I changed city as well but the issue persists, apart from the first few hours of bliss with new ISP.
Also, using wifi instead of ethernet seems to be a relatively better experience in valorant. I'm new to CS2, so can't say much about it.

Now, I didn't really think about offline games until recently I came across discussions regarding checking this in offline games and I particularly remember myself sometimes exclaiming, playing doom eternal, that why were projectiles attracted to me like magnets which made me die very fast. I actually felt that the problem was similar to valorant, however, it was not always the case and on a new doom session after restarting pc I don't remember complaining as much .That made no sense to me then and since no internet was in play, I dismissed it but maybe it does add some info about the problem.

So, in the end I am still clueless as to whether it is a hardware problem or internet related issue or the games themselves.
At this point, I no longer care for the game but this problem is eating my mind away.
Also I might not be a great player but I do know when things aren't right and that this is not in my head, as I've been told by my peers.

some of the parts, in case needed for connecting the dots:
Msi x570 tomahawk wifi
Rtx 2060 super
ryzen 3700x
realtek 2.5gbe and intel ax200 adapters built in to mobo
viper 8k and g102 lightsync mice
acer monitor 165hz

[zen9292]

I tried every fix and placebo settings and even posted some in this forum but still no cigar. Issues persists after hardware change and ISP change to setting static Public IP, from Port Restricted CGNAT to Full cone nat (I dont think internet was the issue since the delay happens even offline). With so many Custom PC configs and different parts, diagnosing this is almost impossible. However, I think this issue is related to monitors connection to GPUs, specifically Freesync monitors. Its something to do with drivers G-Sync's interaction with Freesync compatible monitor. Try this little fix (wouldn't hurt after everythings everyone tried), it made my games crispy again (Valorant, CS2). Follow the steps below:
1. Toggle Freesync (If you have it OFF then set to ON. If you have it ON then toggle it OFF and back ON)

2. In Set-up G-SYNC panel, Click enabled for windowed and fullscreen and hit apply

3. In Program Settings, Force Vertical Sync to OFF and Monitor Technology to Fixed Refresh for your comp games (eg. CS, Valorant, Apex)

4. In Global Settings, Leave Monitor Technology to G-SYNC Compatible (meaning Freesync is always ON by default)

[adrian_13371]

I have been in the optimization community for quite some time now, probably 2 to 3 years. I have pretty much tried every custom OS there is, stock and different versions, etc.

I got a custom PC around a year ago with a 9800X3D, ASUS TUF B650 (previously the Gigabyte B650 version, but the PCB phases were horrible and it would also freeze when searching in BIOS), be quiet! 850W Gold, Inno3D 5070, and 2x16 GB G.Skill CL36 6000 MHz (F6-6000J3636F16) Samsung B-die.

Before that, I played on a 144 Hz laptop with an i7-9750H and RTX 2060, 16 GB RAM, mostly competitive games like Valorant (Immortal elo) or CS2. It was not hitting consistent frametimes and it was overheating, etc. Even so, I could still pretty much carry every game and I was consistent.

Two weeks later, I switched to this custom PC and it felt like I was just behind, desynced, input lag, whatever you want to call it. It feels like I am not the one playing the game. I am not even performing close to what I used to be. I am legit just horrible now. It does not matter if it is the same elo or even two below, I cannot kill or react at all.

I thought it could be my network, but even in aim training like Kovaaks or Aimlabs, it does not feel like how it should. I have been at this for a year now trying to figure it out and it is just weird and exhausting. It does not feel instantaneous whenever I am clicking, even in Kovaaks or Aimlabs. Shooting on top of that feels off, as if I am a few ms behind what I am seeing or shooting. It feels smooth unless I am shooting or clicking, but also raw at the same time. It is hard to explain, but it is not something like a ping spike or anything obvious that would hold me back from playing at my peak. I am probably repeating myself by now.

I am just exhausted from spending close to a hundred hours on trial and error, research, and I am close to quitting competitive.

There are some Blur Busters forum posts that explain the issue in a similar way. Not entirely, but close. The site is also full of schizo people. I do believe some of them have actual issues and they come insanely close to what I am dealing with.

viewtopic.php?t=14768

viewtopic.php?t=14992

viewtopic.php?t=15104

viewtopic.php?t=12535

viewtopic.php?t=12438

viewtopic.php?t=14726#p116423

I have spent a lot of money as well, probably too much. I switched motherboards from the Gigabyte B650 Gaming Plus WiFi to the ASUS TUF B650 Plus WiFi. I played on powerline, and I even played on WiFi before. Back then it was mostly fine except for spikes, which are common and I lived with it. I also tested my PC connected directly to the router, but it made no difference in hit registration.

I have swapped monitors three times, from an ASUS 390 Hz IPS to a 360 Hz OLED and then to the XL2566K. I tried different mice. I am currently on the WL Beast X 4K, but I also have a Lamzu Mini, GPX 2, and a few others. It made no difference. I am also using a Wooting 60HE. I've swapped PSU once.

I have tried pretty much everything in the BIOS. CPU overclocking and undervolting, GPU OC and UV, different RAM settings, and I have disabled EXPO.

I am not looking for higher frames or another optimization because I have already gone through them twice. One was from https://framesynclabs.com
and the other from https://x.com/vootmoot
. I bought the highest package from FrameSyncLabs and the second from Voot, who is one of the most popular people in the Valorant community.

My frames are high and consistent. Everything looks good on paper, but it feels like I am playing through mud. I should have been performing way better at the level I was playing on, especially compared to the horrible setup I had before.

I'm now on stock windows (23h2), was previously on 24h2. CMOS reset BIOS as well.

Try enabling expo but manually set memory frequency to 5200 and fclk to 1733

[Leris]

I tried every fix and placebo settings and even posted some in this forum but still no cigar. Issues persists after hardware change and ISP change to setting static Public IP, from Port Restricted CGNAT to Full cone nat (I dont think internet was the issue since the delay happens even offline). With so many Custom PC configs and different parts, diagnosing this is almost impossible. However, I think this issue is related to monitors connection to GPUs, specifically Freesync monitors. Its something to do with drivers G-Sync's interaction with Freesync compatible monitor. Try this little fix (wouldn't hurt after everythings everyone tried), it made my games crispy again (Valorant, CS2). Follow the steps below:
1. Toggle Freesync (If you have it OFF then set to ON. If you have it ON then toggle it OFF and back ON)
2. In Set-up G-SYNC panel, Click enabled for windowed and fullscreen and hit apply
3. In Program Settings, Force Vertical Sync to OFF and Monitor Technology to Fixed Refresh for your comp games (eg. CS, Valorant, Apex)
4. In Global Settings, Leave Monitor Technology to G-SYNC Compatible (meaning Freesync is always ON by default)

This seemed interesting as I never used G-SYNC before. Searching about this I also stumbled upon a reddit post about "putting_misconceptions_about_optimal_fps_caps"

After trying what you said, the game was once again registering the shots perfectly and no more insta killed problem. The same was true for CS2 as well.
However like for any other change I did, the game went back to it's messy state after a few matches.
If multiple games are being affected by this then I don't think the problem lies with valorant maybe.

In the past, I had tried quite a few of the things from this post: viewtopic.php?t=11394
This reduced the max/avg dpc latency on idle from ~220/1.5 to ~20/0.8. But honestly I feel like this didn't affect much.
So, I tried it again but this time along with this G-SYNC change but same problem.

Unlike valorant which had the exact problem creep back after a few matches, CS2 felt relatively better still.
I don't know, I don't have much experience with CS anyway so maybe I'm just improving there.
I'll keep testing with CS2 but for my sanity I think I can't touch valorant for now.