Blur Busters Forums

RealNC wrote: ↑

08 Aug 2024, 02:23

Have you tried this out? Either VT tweak or -10Hz tweak.

Not as of yet, may be able to this weekend. I'll report back here if/whenever I get the chance though.

Updated first post with a small guide on how to clamp colors and gamma to sRGB with Nvidia GPUs on Windows, as the monitor's built-in sRGB mode has quite a bit of black crush.

RealNC wrote: ↑

08 Aug 2024, 02:23

Have you tried this out? Either VT tweak or -10Hz tweak.

Unless I'm missing something obvious (I don't mess with custom resolutions much), then it doesn't look like I can (easily?) perform this on the LG C4:

jorimt wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 09:56

Unless I'm missing something obvious (I don't mess with custom resolutions much), then it doesn't look like I can (easily?) perform this on the LG C4:

Add a new 115Hz mode. Or 110. Then edit the freesync range from 40-120 to 40-110 (or 40-105 for 110Hz.) Make sure to not use the 120Hz mode for testing (I think you could just delete the 120Hz mode for the test to make sure it's not used.)

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/fixin ... ys.450983/

If what I'm seeing on my end is correct, g-sync will appear to work just fine. All indicators of it working are there (OSD, hardware cursor update rate, g-sync indicator overlay,) but it just won't be actually working correctly and you'll be getting fixed refresh-like judder, just like with g-sync OFF. Like a 70FPS cap simply not being perfectly smooth.

The guy over on guru3d is pretty adamant he “fixed” the flicker on his oled with the -10hz tweak and says he hasn’t noticed flicker since a whole year. I mean if the tweak is like you say- making gsync not sync properly, do you think vrr is ever properly working at any refresh where it’s still useful (in some instances), or is this “fix” the exact same as vrr off altogether?

I understand testing is still required.

gunner7 wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 18:21

The guy over on guru3d is pretty adamant he “fixed” the flicker on his oled with the -10hz tweak and says he hasn’t noticed flicker since a whole year. I mean if the tweak is like you say- making gsync not sync properly, do you think vrr is ever properly working at any refresh where it’s still useful (in some instances), or is this “fix” the exact same as vrr off altogether?

I understand testing is still required.

So far, it appears to be the same as VRR off, except the mouse cursor (if it's not software rendered) moves at VRR refresh rate, unlike with VRR off where it always moves at the max fixed refresh rate. That means the GPU is doing things correctly, but the monitor isn't getting synced at all.

After I found out that all OLEDs show brighter shadows the lower the refresh rate is (gamma curve changes,) I simply cannot see any way for such a "flicker fix" to work. If VRR works, shadow brightness will vary during VRR fluctuation. Which is what people call "OLED VRR flicker." If you can't see brightness changes in shadows, that simply means VRR is not working. Claiming that VRR is working while there's no brightness fluctuation is an oxymoron. It's just not possible. But I don't even need that to confirm it's not working. I can see the judder during animation, something that isn't there when VRR is working correctly.

I think people don't notice it because judder on a 240Hz panel is difficult to see. Even more so on 360Hz and 480Hz panels. But it's there. I was fooled as well at first.

RealNC wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 10:25

jorimt wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 09:56

Unless I'm missing something obvious (I don't mess with custom resolutions much), then it doesn't look like I can (easily?) perform this on the LG C4:

Add a new 115Hz mode. Or 110. Then edit the freesync range from 40-120 to 40-110 (or 40-105 for 110Hz.) Make sure to not use the 120Hz mode for testing (I think you could just delete the 120Hz mode for the test to make sure it's not used.)

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/fixin ... ys.450983/

I followed the Guru3D instructions to a T, applied the 115Hz res, and there's some very weird behavior:

• Unlike the default 120Hz mode with G-SYNC enabled (where VRR only engages in-game, and the desktop is in fixed refresh rate mode), VRR is engaged, even on the Desktop, and my LG info shows a fluctuating 108.9~ Hz with a physical 115Hz refresh rate.
• TestUFO shows 110Hz.
• The TestUFO Frame Skipping test appears to be free of any actual frame skipping at this res.
• I tried the VRR flicker test app, but it defaults to the highest refresh rate (120Hz), and I don't want to bother deleting it, since:
• It still flickers during load screens/frametime spikes in-game (Cyberpunk), and I have confirmed it's at 115Hz (and fluctuating in the 108.9~ range).

In other words, while the custom resolution and manual FreeSync range appear to be working for me, it's not fixing the VRR flicker on my C4, which may further confirm this is heavily display-dependent and probably isn't doing what anyone hopes it's doing in the cases the VRR flicker does seem to be "fixed."

Hard to say, really.

Regardless, the occasional VRR flicker personally doesn't bother me with my particular configuration, and where it does, I can just play on my flicker-free LCD.

jorimt wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 19:39

Unlike the default 120Hz mode with G-SYNC enabled (where VRR only engages in-game, and the desktop is in fixed refresh rate mode), VRR is engaged, even on the Desktop, and my LG info shows a fluctuating 108.9~ Hz with a physical 115Hz refresh rate.

I'm not getting that one. Sounds really weird. I assume it's just the firmware thinking VRR is engaged while it isn't.

The TestUFO Frame Skipping test appears to be free of any actual frame skipping at this res.

It turns out it syncs here too. I had RTSS open which prevents it for some reason Without RTSS running, Edge can sync fine (Firefox is apparently not supported.)

I tried the VRR flicker test app, but it defaults to the highest refresh rate (120Hz)

This is due to having "Highest available" set in NVCP for preferred refresh rate.

In other words, while the custom resolution and manual FreeSync range appear to be working for me, it's not fixing the VRR flicker on my C4, which may further confirm this is heavily display-dependent and probably isn't doing what anyone hopes it's doing in the cases the VRR flicker does seem to be "fixed."

Yeah. If you change CRU timmings (like "Exact") with probably even lower Hz (like 110 or even 100), if the flicker is gone at some point, I bet you'd simply get typical FPS/Hz mismatch judder instead anyway.

Anyway, thanks for testing this!

RealNC wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 19:51

I'm not getting that one. Sounds really weird. I assume it's just the firmware thinking VRR is engaged while it isn't.

Scratch that, I reset everything, and the default 120Hz mode behaves the same way; my TV's refresh rate meter shows a fluctuating ~118.9Hz at 120Hz physical, even on desktop. I just hadn't noticed it until now.

As for the ~108.9Hz at 115Hz physical, that's just because I limited the FreeSync range to a max of 110 (as per the instructions), so no mysteries there after all.

RealNC wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 19:51

It turns out it syncs here too. I had RTSS open which prevents it for some reason Without RTSS running, Edge can sync fine (Firefox is apparently not supported.)

Yeah, I was using Chrome and had no extra overlay software enabled during the tests.

RealNC wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 19:51

This is due to having "Highest available" set in NVCP for preferred refresh rate.

I disabled that before trying, and it still did it; the app runs in exclusive fullscreen via OpenGL. My best guess is whatever flip model it's using defaults to the highest refresh rate no matter what.

Moot point though; it still flickered for me in-game with the 115Hz "fix" anyway.

RealNC wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 19:51

Yeah. If you change CRU timmings (like "Exact") with probably even lower Hz (like 110 or even 100), if the flicker is gone at some point, I bet you'd simply get typical FPS/Hz mismatch judder instead anyway.

Probably.

RealNC wrote: ↑

11 Aug 2024, 19:51

Anyway, thanks for testing this!

Sure, no worries.

RealNC wrote: ↑

07 Aug 2024, 13:38

After a couple days of testing, I think I found the horrible truth when testing a 2D side scrolling game where frame skips are easy to detect: the tweak doesn't actually work. I'll paste my Guru3D post here:

Hah! I suspected as such.

Tweaks that partially or fully turns off VRR. Like disabling LFC part of VRR, or even disabling VRR fully.

Incidentally, when applying this 'fix' to even higher Hz, stutters of 1/360sec-1/480sec framedrops are much harder to see than during the first 144Hz VRR era. So this will escape many peoples' detection.

A common side effect of VRR range edits like lowering 120Hz to 100-110Hz can cause LFC to be disabled, if Min:Max Hz is too tight for LFC to work reliably. You want at least 3:1 to 4:1 difference for near "native-quality" LFC (LFC that looks like native Hz), and the common minimum is roughly ~2.4:1 ... So 48-120Hz VRR range will often disable LFC operations if it becomes 48-100Hz VRR range. In other words, VRR is still working, but LFC is now disabled. Lowering the min Hz can help, but it's also the OLED gamma curve at min Hz that has the most flicker when it modulates between that and double Hz, so.... catch-22 there, sadly.