nuggify wrote: ↑05 Nov 2020, 06:02
Then maybe don't quote someone that was specifically talking about the electricity related input problems in a thread that he created when he himself has confirmed beyond doubt that it cannot be internet related.
I haven't seen him mentioning that, electricity was only his assumption as a possible culprit.
But his whole definition & description of the problem fits perfectly into internet related issues.
nuggify wrote: ↑05 Nov 2020, 06:02
Hey look I am open minded. If I have seen with my own eyes how a very strange electrical issue can cause issues like this then I can certainly believe that some strange ISP side issues could cause something very similar. One day we will know what exactly causes it and we will have our answers but for now we will just need to discuss this in good faith, that in our own cases we have adequately ruled out enough to say with confidence what is the cause for the problems. Spare us the condescension when you yourself are in a similar camp- a problem that is very hard to diagnose through measurements, but there are clearly irregularities and cause for questions.
Dude, i have been gaming online since 1997 and i have seen these problems creeping up over time and have been deeply affected by them. I have seen people making all kinds of crazy assumptions about what the problem is over the years to no avail. The problem has been known and has been identified in ADSL / DSL days when ISP's started using automated monitoring systems like DLM (Dynamic Line Management). This is when fast path mode was basically converted & forced into interleave mode, and this is exactly when different people started getting massive problems when playing FPS games online. This was supposed to fix network congestion problems due to massive influx of people at that time who started getting their own (often first time ever) home internet connections. But an undesirable side effect of that is poor FPS gaming performance. This also affects how the mouse movement feels when aiming, including controlling the recoil and tracking enemies among many other things. And because of that many people incorrectly attributed this to problem with mouse > usb ports > electricity & interference. The key thing to understand is, if the problem occurs
only when gaming online (FPS games) and not on desktop & when using other applications, then the problem is poor internet connection and nothing else. If mouse feels weird / inconsistent on desktop then we are talking about completely different issue.
nuggify wrote: ↑05 Nov 2020, 06:02
Maybe I should add that the creator of this very thread confirmed that his issues were not network related but were actually the same issue that I have as well- affected strangely by the electrical setup.
I have seen people claiming many things, including fixing the issue, but after few days / few weeks they always came to the realization that the problem has not been fixed. I'm quite confident that the creator of this thread is incorrect in his own assumptions, this includes the claim that this is not a network related issue.
nuggify wrote: ↑05 Nov 2020, 06:02
Its clear that there is enough overlap between the two that there should be some discussion about this.
Except there isn't. It's just that people are unable to describe the issues they are having precisely enough. Saying that your mouse feels weird, that aiming doesn't feel smooth or that you think that you are affected by some kind of input lag is not exactly what i would describe as good enough & precise information. And this is exactly what most people are doing when seeking help.
Also, there isn't an overlap between the two issues simply because electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to produce that kind of changes within the game dynamics & mechanics. It would, possibly, be able to produce stutter, freezes, lags / ping spikes, fps drops, packet loss, that kind of thing, but
never the kind of things that people are experiencing. So, electrical interference would be able to produce random artifacts, not game-specific (in relation to game dynamics & mechanics) artifacts. Therefore, the issue i'm describing here is clearly not a random artifact, but a deliberate (targetted) man-made artifact done via software. It doesn't feel random in relation to the things being affected, only the degree and intensity of the problem changes. It perfectly fits into the idea of constantly changning line conditions during different times of the day, based on how many people are using internet and to what degree this creates a problem known as network congestion. All the gaming issues fit perfectly into a very specific network packets, and these are UDP packets on the upstream channel. If these packets are being affected in the way i'm describing, then it would explain perfectly everything people see & feel that is happening on their screens while playing FPS games online. Electrical interference simply wouldn't be able to work as precisely and only on certain network packets and create constant and very specific issues in relation to game dynamics & mechanics. It can essentially can only be done by something that controls the packets directly. This is where ISP and their particular and automated network monitoring system comes into play. This is the root cause and a culprit for everything that is happening to many gamers online. An occam's razor principle.
nuggify wrote: ↑05 Nov 2020, 06:02
Although I think anyone wondering if their performance problems may be this or that, should first and foremost verify that:
A. Its not the software.
B. Its not the hardware.
C. Does it happen only online or offline as well.
Then and only then should people explore whether it is electrically caused.
Correct. But keep in mind that people can be mistakenly swayed into researching potential electrical causes, just because they have exhausted all other possible explanations (at least to the best of their knowledge). For some people there might be also a placebo effect in play and the fact that this problem sometimes briefly goes away or is less noticeable. And this in return might cause a false sense that the change that was made actually made an impact or improved things.
nuggify wrote: ↑05 Nov 2020, 06:02
I am certainly curious what the cause is for these strange net issues is, and I think your theory that it could be the unintended consequences of ISP throttling sounds feasible. Do you have any data that could shed light on this?
Have been doing that on this forum for many years now. Apart from my recent posts (and many older ones), which describe what is really going on, the reason why ISP would decide to throttle upstream channel is because IIRC, it is a direct culprit of network disturbances and this has always been the case. So, instead of increasing, improving and expanding the reliability and resilience of the network, they are introducing shortcuts which causes unintended consequences in online FPS games. People need to remember that ISP's do not care about gamers, this is not their target or main concern. They want to have as many subscribers as possible with the single aim of eliminating or limiting network disconnections to minimum.