cs2 feels more stuttery on OLED

[del1ks]

Hello,

I have two monitors that I use for competitive gaming. A pg27aqdm and a Zowie xl2546k.

Well the Zowie is only for cs2 because for some reason on my pg27aqdm, the game feels more sluggish, more stuttery. I mean, even more, since cs2 is not exactly running well for anyone anyway. I can feel it well when spraying. It's not obvious, almost more like a feeling thing, but there is definitely a thing and when you're serious about cs2 you know how that feeling thing is important. At first I was trying 1920*1440 on the OLED but now I tried with the exact same settings that I use on the Zowie, so same resolution, same aspect ratio, same performance.

With the Zowie, I usually use Dyac, so in terms of motion clarity, it feels like it's on par with the OLED one, so I don't think it's a matter of a clearer picture on the oled making the stutters appears worse. I tought that it was the case for a long time, but not so sure anymore. The game feels more sluggish too on the OLED. Kinda hard to explain. Like there is more input lag, but in that aspect the pg27aqdm is supposed to be faster than the Zowie so not sure why.

I have a 7950x and a rtx 5080. Like everyone, I have very bad 1% low, but achieving pretty high fps in classic 5v5 on faceit, between 500 et 700. Tried a cap, didn't really change anything. The thing is, my performance are exactly the same, just the feeling is off with the oled.

I tried to use 8 bits on the pg27aqdm but I don't think there is a way to disable dsc to try, but I think it's probably not be enabled anyway when not needed. (1280*960 240hz)

I usually don't have that kind of feeling on others games, but I basically never use the Zowie for anything else. I know it's a long shot and my solution was just to use the zowie for cs2, but in the optic of wanting to upgrade for a one and only monitor, I would be very disappointed if I have the same feeling while upgrading to a 540hz oled for example. I'm not going pro on cs2, but as someone with a pretty high peak on precedent title, it just doesn't feel right on cs2 and I have no idea why...

[kyube]

--snip--

I've seen people claim that particular model having issues.
Try a 500Hz QD-OLED instead. E.g.: Gigabyte FO27Q5P, AOC AG276QKD2, MSI 271QR X50
There's also a possibility of system-related stutters being amplified with OLED.

Also:

With the Zowie, I usually use Dyac, so in terms of motion clarity, it feels like it's on par with the OLED one, so I don't think it's a matter of a clearer picture on the oled making the stutters appears worse.

This part is completely wrong and goes to show how little, anecdotally speaking, CS2 players notice the benefits of some particular backlight strobing implementations.
Just get a 500Hz QD-OLED.

[del1ks]

--snip--

I've seen people claim that particular model having issues.
Try a 500Hz QD-OLED instead. E.g.: Gigabyte FO27Q5P, AOC AG276QKD2, MSI 271QR X50
There's also a possibility of system-related stutters being amplified with OLED.

Also:

With the Zowie, I usually use Dyac, so in terms of motion clarity, it feels like it's on par with the OLED one, so I don't think it's a matter of a clearer picture on the oled making the stutters appears worse.

This part is completely wrong and goes to show how little, anecdotally speaking, CS2 players notice the benefits of some particular backlight strobing implementations.
Just get a 500Hz QD-OLED.

I'm sorry but I don't really see how your answer make sense. No system-related stutters, that's just the way CS is, 1% low are very low and nothing you can really do about it. It's the same for everyone and there is no fix.

But if I follow you, my 240Hz OLED show me more "defects" than what the Zowie can show me, how is going to an even higher hz model can improve the situation ? It can't. So maybe I misunderstand what you were saying, english isn't my native.

Now if it's an issue with my monitor, it's another thing. That's why I'm asking for help, but can you show me some of these people claiming this issue please ? I can't really find anything on the web, already searched a lot about it actually. It's genuine, really asking and it would explain a lot and would upgrade without thinking twice, but since I searched a lot and found nothing, I wonder where you found it.

The only thing I could find was some input lag issue in some case, but pretty significantly. Doesn't feel like the case there. The game feels fine until I have to spray on someone, it's where it's the most obvious.

And I do notice the benefits of backlight strobing, 100%, so no, it's not wrong. Strobed 240Hz have tons of benefits for fps compared to 240hz oled. Not really the subject tho, I clarified this aspect simply to say that it's not like I go for a monitor with tons of perceived blur that would hide everything to one with way less. And again, even if it was the case and OLED just show more, upgrading to another one would not fix "the issue", so doesn't really make sense to me ?

Not sure why the focus on QD-OLED too, got one too and can't really handle the coating of the monitor. But again, maybe there is a reason but you don't really explain it ?

Not trying to be a dick by any mean and I thank you for your help.

[kyube]

I'm sorry but I don't really see how your answer make sense. No system-related stutters, that's just the way CS is, 1% low are very low and nothing you can really do about it. It's the same for everyone and there is no fix.

Frame rate is a misleading metric to evaluate performance. “1% lows” is also borderline useless.
“System-related stutters” implies mistuned RAM timing profile and/or CPU misconfiguration which you aren't aware of. They're present on the vast majority of users which visit these forums, hence me mentioning the possibility.
There's a ton of settings to tune. There is a 'fix', people online are just clueless on what to do.
And no, every single 'twitter tweaker' you know directly or indirectly & shares info online is also highly likely clueless.

But if I follow you, my 240Hz OLED show me more "defects" than what the Zowie can show me, how is going to an even higher hz model can improve the situation ? It can't. So maybe I misunderstand what you were saying, english isn't my native.

It will improve QoL and likely circumvent the increased processing latency or any other hidden conditions which are an issue with that particular model.
QD-OLED and WOLED are a entirely different technology and implementation details can vary greatly even when the same panel is used.
Get a proper DP2.1 UHBR20 model, like the ones I've mentioned above.

Now if it's an issue with my monitor, it's another thing.

That's precisely what I'm implying.

That's why I'm asking for help, but can you show me some of these people claiming this issue please ? I can't really find anything on the web, already searched a lot about it actually. It's genuine, really asking and it would explain a lot and would upgrade without thinking twice, but since I searched a lot and found nothing, I wonder where you found it.
The only thing I could find was some input lag issue in some case, but pretty significantly. Doesn't feel like the case there. The game feels fine until I have to spray on someone, it's where it's the most obvious.

Threads against the PG27AQDM
viewtopic.php?t=13905
viewtopic.php?t=12232
Increased processing latency is good enough of a reason to ditch it.

And I do notice the benefits of backlight strobing, 100%, so no, it's not wrong. Strobed 240Hz have tons of benefits for fps compared to 240hz oled. Not really the subject tho, I clarified this aspect simply to say that it's not like I go for a monitor with tons of perceived blur that would hide everything to one with way less. And again, even if it was the case and OLED just show more, upgrading to another one would not fix "the issue", so doesn't really make sense to me ?

Not sure why the focus on QD-OLED too, got one too and can't really handle the coating of the monitor. But again, maybe there is a reason but you don't really explain it ?

Not trying to be a dick by any mean and I thank you for your help.

Higher refresh rate OLED (+360Hz) is more beneficial to tactical FPS games.
If by “can't handle the coating”, you're referring to the change in perceived contrast ratio when in a room-lit environment, then go for a +480Hz WOLED.

[del1ks]

There's a ton of settings to tune. There is a 'fix', people online are just clueless on what to do.
And no, every single 'twitter tweaker' you know directly or indirectly & shares info online is also highly likely clueless.

Ton of settings to tune, I mean, I'm a system admin and game on PC since 30 years, so tweaking and optimizing is not really unknown to me and I don't usually have to rely on "clueless twitter tweaker". I do know what you mean by saying that tho, the 20s tiktok video with how optimising the game when it's basically all bullshit or basic common sense.

At the moment there is no fix about the 1% low in CS2, which is actually pretty important and a perfectly valable measure. But please share your fix, you'll make tons of people happy. Just saying RAM timings or CPU misconfiguration won't really work with me tho.

At a certain point when every game works perfectly fine except one or the usual UE5 trash, kinda means something. No RAM timings will explain why a molly dropped on T spawn Nuke will affect your performance heavily while being on CT spawn.

You can always get better performance, doesn't mean that there is not something wrong with the game tho.

That's precisely what I'm implying.

Yes, I understand. But one post is basically the high input lag, which is not the case there and the other post is nothing in relation with what I'm having trouble. I agree HDR is trash on this monitor, doesn't matter the firmware version, always something wrong and have to choose the less worse, but again, nothing like I mentioned.

Higher refresh rate OLED (+360Hz) is more beneficial to tactical FPS games.
If by “can't handle the coating”, you're referring to the change in perceived contrast ratio when in a room-lit environment, then go for a +480Hz WOLED.

Debatable. I think it's actually wrong and I'm not basing my opinion on pros that usually have no idea and just copy what others pros use and stay with it for no reason. I tried by myself and the benefits to me are pretty obvious. Tons of people are clueless, but tons are not and just have a different opinion from yours. I'm not a Zowie fanboy if you're thinking about that too, there is tons of them but I actually had maybe 20 different monitors the last 3 years and there is a reason I don't change that much now, I just love OLED and don't have to change everyday. And if it wasn't for the strange behavior of my pg27aqdm on CS2 only by the way, I would not even considering changing again.

The thing is, it's not even the subject, like I said I had my fair share of time when I was playing CS way more seriously, not anymore so I'll gladly ditch DyAc, I only want to play faceit 10 while being still competitive, which is more than perfectly fine with an OLED, it just feels completely off with my pg27aqdm. I can't really be more specific why, it's hard to explain. It's like while spraying I can't keep track of the head of the enemy and where my bullet goes.

But maybe I guess I will just have to try with a newer OLED monitor. It could be defective I guess.

For the QD-OLED, I guess it's not really about the coating (that I don't like anyway), I just have very bad eye strain with the monitor. Which is a shame, in terms of picture quality it looks actually way better than the pg27aqdm, even tho it's first gen. (aw3423dw). Kinda got bored by the UW format too. Anyway thank you again

[kyube]

Ton of settings to tune, I mean, I'm a system admin and game on PC since 30 years, so tweaking and optimizing is not really unknown to me and I don't usually have to rely on "clueless twitter tweaker". I do know what you mean by saying that tho, the 20s tiktok video with how optimising the game when it's basically all bullshit or basic common sense.

That's much better than the vast majority of users that come here
Thanks for clarifying.

At the moment there is no fix about the 1% low in CS2, which is actually pretty important and a perfectly valable measure.

Frame rate, without knowing other parts of the pipeline, is misleading and not a good way to evaluate total system latency.
This means that it isn't a good way to encapsulate what you perceive in real-time
“1% lows”, depending on the tool you've used (tools measure this differently; overlays are borderline useless), are just an extension of these ideas above.

But please share your fix, you'll make tons of people happy. Just saying RAM timings or CPU misconfiguration won't really work with me tho.

Depends on whether you play FaceIT or not
Generally — 600Hz TN and GSYNC+VSYNC+Reflex abusing for CS2 is the best experience you can get in that game. (fps_max 0)
Ideally, SpecialK's Reflex override (if not on FaceIT) in combination to the above setup is going to lead to drastically better experience.
Using FSE (HW:LFLIP) should also be mandatory, as NV Reflex misbehaves when in FSO (HW:IFLIP).
Not having a system with a unstable IMC (whether severe or mild instability) also helps tremendously. Hence why I'm a strong proponent of ECC (SECDED) UDIMMs when on the AM4/AM5 platform.
This completely disregards deeper causes, such as: GPU driver version, Windows version, I/O controller choice etc.

At a certain point when every game works perfectly fine except one or the usual UE5 trash, kinda means something.
No RAM timings will explain why a molly dropped on T spawn Nuke will affect your performance heavily while being on CT spawn.

It's not necessarily the RAM timing profile isolated which can impact the overall experience, it's the CPU's IMC not being stable & thus produce misbehavior in form of micro or macrostuttering.

You can always get better performance, doesn't mean that there is not something wrong with the game tho.

The biggest issue of CS2 is the choice of sub-tick for their servers and the fact that they still haven't fixed the fps_max implementation for 2 decades now.
In terms of performance, I can't comment on that since the sample size of good rigs and good data is extremely limited.
The issue of the game being constantly updated also doesn't help the situation either, as there's always a possibility of a update changing performance results.

Debatable.

There's nothing to 'debate'. Reality isn't encapsulated with 500Hz, let alone 240Hz
It's only a glimpse of what reality is.
Tactical FPS only emphasizes the need for higher refresh rate much more.

I think it's actually wrong. --snip--
I tried by myself and the benefits to me are pretty obvious.
Tons of people are clueless, but tons are not and just have a different opinion from yours.
I'm not a Zowie fanboy if you're thinking about that too, there is tons of them but I actually had maybe 20 different monitors the last 3 years and there is a reason I don't change that much now, I just love OLED and don't have to change everyday. And if it wasn't for the strange behavior of my pg27aqdm on CS2 only by the way, I would not even considering changing again.
The thing is, it's not even the subject, like I said I had my fair share of time when I was playing CS way more seriously, not anymore so I'll gladly ditch DyAc, I only want to play faceit 10 while being still competitive, which is more than perfectly fine with an OLED, it just feels completely off with my pg27aqdm. I can't really be more specific why, it's hard to explain. It's like while spraying I can't keep track of the head of the enemy and where my bullet goes.

Now that i think of it, it could also be scaling related, I've somewhat went past the fact that you play on 1280x960@240Hz.
Try playing “No Scaling” if you want to play a non-native image resolution.
Ideally, you'd play native or the 4:3 native (1920x1440).

For the QD-OLED, I guess it's not really about the coating (that I don't like anyway), I just have very bad eye strain with the monitor. Which is a shame, in terms of picture quality it looks actually way better than the pg27aqdm, even tho it's first gen. (aw3423dw). Kinda got bored by the UW format too. Anyway thank you again

OK, eyestrain is a completely different beast to tackle then. From what I understood, you've had the AW3423DW and you had eyestrain from it?
It could be related to the QD layer... which does make it a bit difficult :p
Perhaps something like the ASUS PG27AQWP, LG 27GX790A, ASUS PG27AQDP might be more usable for you.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Thinking....

1. Yes, as everyone else is saying: Clearer motion = easier to see smaller stutters.
2. 1440p vs 1080p. 1440p will lower frame rate, creating more visible stutters.
3. Longshot, but what mouse DPI and mouse poll Hz are you using? Excessively low mouse DPI is known to amplify jitters on a high-Hz OLED.

Depending on the type of stutter, 200fps stutters less on a 480Hz OLED than a 240Hz OLED. The supersampling of display Hz means your refresh rate granularity contribution to stutter is clamped to 1/480sec instead of 1/240sec. In other words, it will reduce stutters slightly. It won't appreciably smoothen your 0.1% frametimes but it will smooth out your many-times-per-second microstutters.

Are you at liberty to post your frametime graph? Since you need to diagnose CS2, stick to the VAC-safe trusted software and don't run during official matchmaking. RTSS or CapFrameX or similar.

Seeing your frametime graph will help analyze things better, if we're dealing with often-unfixable 1% spikes or we're dealing with continuous microstutter of some kind.

____

So, restating common sense advice:

Fixing 1% frametime spikes is hard, but some people report success with Process Lasso (keep CS2 on lightly used performance cores, rather than any efficiency cores & the main operating system core (Core 0)), and disabling all overlays (no Steam, no Discord, no Shadowplay, no RTSS). Capping frame rates can help those 1%'s to an extent, though quality varies how you do it (in-game, vs NVIDIA Control Panel), though that's a tradeoff - tolerating lower average frame rate in exchange for improved consistency. Reinstalling drivers.

Also, don't use more than ~75-80% of your SSD, to reduce your 1%-frametime-spike problem caused by a write-amplification-slowed-down SSD. A nearly-full SSD (one that's fairly old, or one that's cheap) that's slowed down by write amplification = 1% frametime spike right on the spot, when it tries to do something like save a cached shader, or trying to load a new texture and a disk access stalls longer than usual due to SSD housekeeping on a nearly-full SSD.

Oh and do not forget to clear your DirectX Shader Cache, etc. This is especially true if your disk is a slower than it used to be / has lots of crud. If your Windows was freshly installed, then this won't be your problem, but a long-running Windows system will often have a pretty polluted DirectX Shader Cache.

Oh and the driver uninstall and reinstall. That often helps a lot of mysterious stutters that nobody else gets. (Doesn't help the well known CS2 1% stutter annoyances)

Do the "easy stuff" first on your 1% frametime spike problem, and see if you can tame them at least a small amount.