That's good that you can show someone else that, because if someone has never experienced it, they can't truly understand it. They just think it's a skill issueAsesino34 wrote: β29 May 2025, 04:34I can confirm that too. A few days ago, a friend came over and started playing some League of Legends matches. He told me everything looked really fast, that he couldnβt dodge anything. He even has a monitor with a higher refresh rate than mine, but he said he *thinks* his house has grounded electrical wiring, so Iβm not sure.ApexLeg wrote: β29 May 2025, 04:22Desync definitely isn't nonsense. It exists. I've had it for many years and go though periods where it doesn't happen, and it's like night and day difference. Games feel much more easier.
Another example is a friend who never experienced these kind of issues, we play Warzone together, he's one of those guys who just happens to have great hand eye coordination and great at any sport he picks up, however this past month or so he's finally been getting desync issues and I've never known him to rage ever, yet he's going crazy and sending me clips, he's never done this in the 5 years since we started playing. I'm thankful in a way because he always used to think it was just me moaning, but now he understands.
Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
In this case, I think you will have problems with the servers of the games you play or your ISP's router. After all, there is no single server for a game in one country, you can connect to different servers in the same country for each match.ApexLeg wrote: β29 May 2025, 12:49Nah, I had the issue come and go within Apex as well as CoD. I'm not crazy, I can clearly tell when it happens and when it's not. It goes through periods. I do still think it's mainly ISP routing because I can have awful desync for a while, and then all of a sudden the next day it goes away for weeks without me touching any kind of setting.
When I suddenly dont get the issue and my kd goes up from 1kd to 2.5kd or something, my teammates have actually accused me of cheating because how can I suddenly get more kills and less deaths all of a sudden? I just tell them I'm not getting any desync, I'll be honest about it.
But then again, you can search up now Smurf accounts clear this issue. It's very complex but definitely not placebo.
You can analyze it with Pingplotter. Maybe ping or packet loss on intermediate servers are causing this problem.
Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
Yup, yes I've analysed the hell out of the routing and lot of times when Apex would give me issues, it would always be routing my data to the USA (I'm in Europe). I made a long Reddit post about it, but gave up eventually trying to stop it from doing it.alp15eren wrote: β29 May 2025, 13:15In this case, I think you will have problems with the servers of the games you play or your ISP's router. After all, there is no single server for a game in one country, you can connect to different servers in the same country for each match.ApexLeg wrote: β29 May 2025, 12:49Nah, I had the issue come and go within Apex as well as CoD. I'm not crazy, I can clearly tell when it happens and when it's not. It goes through periods. I do still think it's mainly ISP routing because I can have awful desync for a while, and then all of a sudden the next day it goes away for weeks without me touching any kind of setting.
When I suddenly dont get the issue and my kd goes up from 1kd to 2.5kd or something, my teammates have actually accused me of cheating because how can I suddenly get more kills and less deaths all of a sudden? I just tell them I'm not getting any desync, I'll be honest about it.
But then again, you can search up now Smurf accounts clear this issue. It's very complex but definitely not placebo.
You can analyze it with Pingplotter. Maybe ping or packet loss on intermediate servers are causing this problem.
Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
I noticed what you said while playing Apex Legends using ExitLAG. When I checked the servers it was redirecting to, I saw that it was redirecting from American servers. My ping was increasing incredibly when I did this. I automatically selected European countries. I constantly get similar ping values ββin all matches. It's a shame that we need 3rd party applications to solve these problemsApexLeg wrote: β29 May 2025, 13:57Yup, yes I've analysed the hell out of the routing and lot of times when Apex would give me issues, it would always be routing my data to the USA (I'm in Europe). I made a long Reddit post about it, but gave up eventually trying to stop it from doing it.alp15eren wrote: β29 May 2025, 13:15In this case, I think you will have problems with the servers of the games you play or your ISP's router. After all, there is no single server for a game in one country, you can connect to different servers in the same country for each match.ApexLeg wrote: β29 May 2025, 12:49Nah, I had the issue come and go within Apex as well as CoD. I'm not crazy, I can clearly tell when it happens and when it's not. It goes through periods. I do still think it's mainly ISP routing because I can have awful desync for a while, and then all of a sudden the next day it goes away for weeks without me touching any kind of setting.
When I suddenly dont get the issue and my kd goes up from 1kd to 2.5kd or something, my teammates have actually accused me of cheating because how can I suddenly get more kills and less deaths all of a sudden? I just tell them I'm not getting any desync, I'll be honest about it.
But then again, you can search up now Smurf accounts clear this issue. It's very complex but definitely not placebo.
You can analyze it with Pingplotter. Maybe ping or packet loss on intermediate servers are causing this problem.
Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
Yeah same, I'd always select the closest EU on the Mann menu but once in game it would be showing as the US in the net monitors I was using. Just think that the game was bugged with accounts somehow.alp15eren wrote: β30 May 2025, 04:55I noticed what you said while playing Apex Legends using ExitLAG. When I checked the servers it was redirecting to, I saw that it was redirecting from American servers. My ping was increasing incredibly when I did this. I automatically selected European countries. I constantly get similar ping values ββin all matches. It's a shame that we need 3rd party applications to solve these problemsApexLeg wrote: β29 May 2025, 13:57Yup, yes I've analysed the hell out of the routing and lot of times when Apex would give me issues, it would always be routing my data to the USA (I'm in Europe). I made a long Reddit post about it, but gave up eventually trying to stop it from doing it.alp15eren wrote: β29 May 2025, 13:15In this case, I think you will have problems with the servers of the games you play or your ISP's router. After all, there is no single server for a game in one country, you can connect to different servers in the same country for each match.ApexLeg wrote: β29 May 2025, 12:49Nah, I had the issue come and go within Apex as well as CoD. I'm not crazy, I can clearly tell when it happens and when it's not. It goes through periods. I do still think it's mainly ISP routing because I can have awful desync for a while, and then all of a sudden the next day it goes away for weeks without me touching any kind of setting.
When I suddenly dont get the issue and my kd goes up from 1kd to 2.5kd or something, my teammates have actually accused me of cheating because how can I suddenly get more kills and less deaths all of a sudden? I just tell them I'm not getting any desync, I'll be honest about it.
But then again, you can search up now Smurf accounts clear this issue. It's very complex but definitely not placebo.
You can analyze it with Pingplotter. Maybe ping or packet loss on intermediate servers are causing this problem.
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Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
I wonder how ExitLag works.
If ExitLag uses the algorithm I described here, then I understand why ExitLag improves esports scores.
There's lots of placebo, but there's a counter-intuitive way for a gateway-in-middle to improve gaming experiences by smoothing ping jitter
TL;DR: Lag conditioning algorithms / lag dejittering algorithms that converts random [10..30ms] latency jitter into a consistent [30ms] latency) which eliminates 50-75% of games' "random predictive errors" (hits that don't register, misses that register).
For this to be fair, lag-conditioning ideally should be done symmetrically (both in the incoming and outgoing direction), as some of the intentional asymmetric lag tricks can sometimes trigger gameserver-side anticheat etc.
Lag conditioning REALLY helps (adding intentional lag to dejitter), it's real, and it makes gaming more fun, but it must be done properly, ethically, and fully kosher without cheat sheninigians.
This also helps level the playing field and equalizes FTTH lag with DSL lag too, and if done fairly between all gamers on the same server, it creates WAY fewer predictive errors (false positive/false negative hit registration). But Some FTTH users resent the fact that some game engines handicap FTTH users (e.g. some games perform more reliably at 30ms lag instead of 10ms lag or 100ms lag, as an example), so this is always a controversial discussion topic in some other circles. It's because the game netcode is tuned to a ideal median lag, creating a handicap effect for LPB (Low Ping B*stards).
But the best of all worlds is good lag conditioning. Sometimes good lag conditioning is built into the games but more often it is not, and you want a third party gateway (gaming VPN with built-in lag conditioning) to do the lag conditioning. Turn a lag-jittery ISP connection into a perfect jitter-free slightly-higher-lag connection, that feels as if it's lower lag, because all the predictive errors disappear (etc)
This is why I tell my forum members to try "VPN/Tunnel Provider Roulette" in your particular country/location with your particular ISP
Switching Locations Situation
Random Example Country/Location #6 with ISP #3
1. VPN Provider "A" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
2. VPN Provider "B" - Almost no difference
3. VPN Provider "C" - Massively better esports performance
4. VPN Provider "D" - Slightly worse.
Random Example Country/Location #22 with ISP #2
1. VPN Provider "A" - Massively better esports performance
2. VPN Provider "B" - Slightly worse.
3. VPN Provider "C" - Massively better esports performance
4. VPN Provider "D" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
Random Example Country/Location #7 with ISP #1
1. VPN Provider "A" - Almost no difference
2. VPN Provider "B" - Slightly worse.
3. VPN Provider "C" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
4. VPN Provider "D" - Much worse
5. Nothing improves in this country
Random Example Country/Location #3 with ISP #6
1. VPN Provider "A" - Almost no difference
2. VPN Provider "B" - Slightly worse.
3. VPN Provider "C" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
4. VPN Provider "D" - Massively better esports performance
Switching ISPs in Same Location While Trying All VPN/Tunnels
Random Example Country/Location #6 with one ISP #3
1. VPN Provider "A" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
2. VPN Provider "B" - Almost no difference
3. VPN Provider "C" - Massively better esports performance
4. VPN Provider "D" - Slightly worse.
Random Example Country/Location #6 (SAME COUNTRY) with DIFFERENT ISP #7
1. VPN Provider "A" - Almost no difference
2. VPN Provider "B" - Much worse
3. VPN Provider "C" - Slightly worse.
4. VPN Provider "D" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
5. No VPN provider seems to improve things on this ISP
Random Example Country/Location #6 (SAME COUNTRY) with DIFFERENT ISP #9
1. VPN Provider "A" - Almost no difference
2. VPN Provider "B" - Massively better esports performance
3. VPN Provider "C" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
4. VPN Provider "D" - Slightly worse.
Similar samples have have happened; with all the people reporting better gaming through a specific VPN (but only in one location), or better gaming through a specific ISP (but only in one location with a specific VPN).
So you definitely have lots of claims and outliers that doesn't help someone else much (because they're on a different ISP and different location). Which is why forums skream "PLACEBOZ" and just call it a day -- understandable -- but this is real science, buddy.
The famous chicken and egg problem, the Catch-22 problem, of making sure claims are not fake is difficult: You can't perform a scientific test with the same variables as someone else -- becuase you're not sitting at their chair (ISP-specific, location-specific, VPN-specific combo that works). You can't make "2+2=4" if you change only one of the three numbers (2+3=4, or 2+2+5) -- you need all variables the same (same ISP, same location, same routing, same city, same neighborhood, even same DSLAM, even same fiber gateway box, and even maybe in the same building, etc -- just to merely confirm their claim, because of the way Internet Routing works.
When doing ISP/VPN/Tunnel Provider "Random Combos" Roulette...
...YMMV!
While ExitLag is not a VPN, they are indeed a Tunnel Provider, and Tunnel Providers, can actually do some lag-conditioning behaviors that are definitely DEFINITELY NOT PLACEBO (at least in certain countries, even if it is placebo in YOUR location).
Your Country "A" tunnel provider placebo may scientifically not be placebo in Country "B".
This happens because of internet routing differences (different ISP, different location, different backbone, different country, etc)
Both VPNs and Tunnels modify the Internet routing between you and your game server, which can affect the latency jitter. You will usually have not much control over your first hop(s) of ISP routing, but beyond the first hop(s), a VPN or tunnel can dramatically reroute your gaming to a different (better) routing or (better) backbone, allowing better gaming. Concurrenttly, also possibly doing also double duty such as latency dejittering algorithms on the fly (like the one I described).
Some VPN providers seems to defacto provide nice (intentional and/or unintentional) latency conditioning behaviors. Intentional includes algorithms that I described here, while unintentional includes simple sheer network routing that is more stable through them (VPN/tunnel) than bypassing them (pure ISP chosen routing).
If ExitLag uses the algorithm I described here, then I understand why ExitLag improves esports scores.
There's lots of placebo, but there's a counter-intuitive way for a gateway-in-middle to improve gaming experiences by smoothing ping jitter
TL;DR: Lag conditioning algorithms / lag dejittering algorithms that converts random [10..30ms] latency jitter into a consistent [30ms] latency) which eliminates 50-75% of games' "random predictive errors" (hits that don't register, misses that register).
For this to be fair, lag-conditioning ideally should be done symmetrically (both in the incoming and outgoing direction), as some of the intentional asymmetric lag tricks can sometimes trigger gameserver-side anticheat etc.
Lag conditioning REALLY helps (adding intentional lag to dejitter), it's real, and it makes gaming more fun, but it must be done properly, ethically, and fully kosher without cheat sheninigians.
This also helps level the playing field and equalizes FTTH lag with DSL lag too, and if done fairly between all gamers on the same server, it creates WAY fewer predictive errors (false positive/false negative hit registration). But Some FTTH users resent the fact that some game engines handicap FTTH users (e.g. some games perform more reliably at 30ms lag instead of 10ms lag or 100ms lag, as an example), so this is always a controversial discussion topic in some other circles. It's because the game netcode is tuned to a ideal median lag, creating a handicap effect for LPB (Low Ping B*stards).
But the best of all worlds is good lag conditioning. Sometimes good lag conditioning is built into the games but more often it is not, and you want a third party gateway (gaming VPN with built-in lag conditioning) to do the lag conditioning. Turn a lag-jittery ISP connection into a perfect jitter-free slightly-higher-lag connection, that feels as if it's lower lag, because all the predictive errors disappear (etc)
This is why I tell my forum members to try "VPN/Tunnel Provider Roulette" in your particular country/location with your particular ISP
Switching Locations Situation
Random Example Country/Location #6 with ISP #3
1. VPN Provider "A" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
2. VPN Provider "B" - Almost no difference
3. VPN Provider "C" - Massively better esports performance
4. VPN Provider "D" - Slightly worse.
Random Example Country/Location #22 with ISP #2
1. VPN Provider "A" - Massively better esports performance
2. VPN Provider "B" - Slightly worse.
3. VPN Provider "C" - Massively better esports performance
4. VPN Provider "D" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
Random Example Country/Location #7 with ISP #1
1. VPN Provider "A" - Almost no difference
2. VPN Provider "B" - Slightly worse.
3. VPN Provider "C" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
4. VPN Provider "D" - Much worse
5. Nothing improves in this country
Random Example Country/Location #3 with ISP #6
1. VPN Provider "A" - Almost no difference
2. VPN Provider "B" - Slightly worse.
3. VPN Provider "C" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
4. VPN Provider "D" - Massively better esports performance
Switching ISPs in Same Location While Trying All VPN/Tunnels
Random Example Country/Location #6 with one ISP #3
1. VPN Provider "A" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
2. VPN Provider "B" - Almost no difference
3. VPN Provider "C" - Massively better esports performance
4. VPN Provider "D" - Slightly worse.
Random Example Country/Location #6 (SAME COUNTRY) with DIFFERENT ISP #7
1. VPN Provider "A" - Almost no difference
2. VPN Provider "B" - Much worse
3. VPN Provider "C" - Slightly worse.
4. VPN Provider "D" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
5. No VPN provider seems to improve things on this ISP
Random Example Country/Location #6 (SAME COUNTRY) with DIFFERENT ISP #9
1. VPN Provider "A" - Almost no difference
2. VPN Provider "B" - Massively better esports performance
3. VPN Provider "C" - Connection becomes worse and game is unplayable
4. VPN Provider "D" - Slightly worse.
Similar samples have have happened; with all the people reporting better gaming through a specific VPN (but only in one location), or better gaming through a specific ISP (but only in one location with a specific VPN).
So you definitely have lots of claims and outliers that doesn't help someone else much (because they're on a different ISP and different location). Which is why forums skream "PLACEBOZ" and just call it a day -- understandable -- but this is real science, buddy.
The famous chicken and egg problem, the Catch-22 problem, of making sure claims are not fake is difficult: You can't perform a scientific test with the same variables as someone else -- becuase you're not sitting at their chair (ISP-specific, location-specific, VPN-specific combo that works). You can't make "2+2=4" if you change only one of the three numbers (2+3=4, or 2+2+5) -- you need all variables the same (same ISP, same location, same routing, same city, same neighborhood, even same DSLAM, even same fiber gateway box, and even maybe in the same building, etc -- just to merely confirm their claim, because of the way Internet Routing works.
When doing ISP/VPN/Tunnel Provider "Random Combos" Roulette...
...YMMV!
While ExitLag is not a VPN, they are indeed a Tunnel Provider, and Tunnel Providers, can actually do some lag-conditioning behaviors that are definitely DEFINITELY NOT PLACEBO (at least in certain countries, even if it is placebo in YOUR location).
Your Country "A" tunnel provider placebo may scientifically not be placebo in Country "B".
This happens because of internet routing differences (different ISP, different location, different backbone, different country, etc)
Both VPNs and Tunnels modify the Internet routing between you and your game server, which can affect the latency jitter. You will usually have not much control over your first hop(s) of ISP routing, but beyond the first hop(s), a VPN or tunnel can dramatically reroute your gaming to a different (better) routing or (better) backbone, allowing better gaming. Concurrenttly, also possibly doing also double duty such as latency dejittering algorithms on the fly (like the one I described).
Some VPN providers seems to defacto provide nice (intentional and/or unintentional) latency conditioning behaviors. Intentional includes algorithms that I described here, while unintentional includes simple sheer network routing that is more stable through them (VPN/tunnel) than bypassing them (pure ISP chosen routing).
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Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
I have tried Exitlag yesterday for valorant, but I experienced more packet loss and higher jitter. Can you show me what settings you use? If you would be able to message somewhere else where it's easier than here. I'm not really a huge blurbuster user, I just lurk around. I recently got a new PC (9800x3d, inno3d 5070 with asus tuf b650 plus mobo) and I have tried a 380hz ips monitor, now switched to 360hz qd oled.
I'm experiencing some kind of weird issue where my game feels so different everyday, my mouse sometimes feels slow or fast on the same sensitivity, the recoil feels stronger than normal to control or I miss bullets that should be on the head or are counted as bodyshots. So much more that I don't know how to explain. There's like a layer between the inputs I have and what I see happening on the screen. It doesn't feel snappy at all.
I'm not sure if it's only the jittering caused by my internet, because I did not have this issue on my laptop and I used to a very consistent player. I'm not sure if it's the presentation model that I'm using (FSO/FSE) or my nvidia drivers, OS or other settings. I have been troubleshooting for weeks trying everything possible (I have probably read around 300-400 articles on different sites).
I don't know if it is desynce, internet issue or some OS setting that's wrong. Anyone that could help would be nice. I legit play better on my overheating laptop with a 144hz display than I use to now.
I'm experiencing some kind of weird issue where my game feels so different everyday, my mouse sometimes feels slow or fast on the same sensitivity, the recoil feels stronger than normal to control or I miss bullets that should be on the head or are counted as bodyshots. So much more that I don't know how to explain. There's like a layer between the inputs I have and what I see happening on the screen. It doesn't feel snappy at all.
I'm not sure if it's only the jittering caused by my internet, because I did not have this issue on my laptop and I used to a very consistent player. I'm not sure if it's the presentation model that I'm using (FSO/FSE) or my nvidia drivers, OS or other settings. I have been troubleshooting for weeks trying everything possible (I have probably read around 300-400 articles on different sites).
I don't know if it is desynce, internet issue or some OS setting that's wrong. Anyone that could help would be nice. I legit play better on my overheating laptop with a 144hz display than I use to now.
Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
I do all my games with 1 TCP, 3 UDP, Automatic Server Selections.Kal wrote: β02 Jun 2025, 17:38I have tried Exitlag yesterday for valorant, but I experienced more packet loss and higher jitter. Can you show me what settings you use? If you would be able to message somewhere else where it's easier than here. I'm not really a huge blurbuster user, I just lurk around. I recently got a new PC (9800x3d, inno3d 5070 with asus tuf b650 plus mobo) and I have tried a 380hz ips monitor, now switched to 360hz qd oled.
I'm experiencing some kind of weird issue where my game feels so different everyday, my mouse sometimes feels slow or fast on the same sensitivity, the recoil feels stronger than normal to control or I miss bullets that should be on the head or are counted as bodyshots. So much more that I don't know how to explain. There's like a layer between the inputs I have and what I see happening on the screen. It doesn't feel snappy at all.
I'm not sure if it's only the jittering caused by my internet, because I did not have this issue on my laptop and I used to a very consistent player. I'm not sure if it's the presentation model that I'm using (FSO/FSE) or my nvidia drivers, OS or other settings. I have been troubleshooting for weeks trying everything possible (I have probably read around 300-400 articles on different sites).
I don't know if it is desynce, internet issue or some OS setting that's wrong. Anyone that could help would be nice. I legit play better on my overheating laptop with a 144hz display than I use to now.
I don't think this program will fix desync. If you have problems with intermediate redirects, it may help.
Re: Does ExitLAG provide an unfair advantage?
Placebo.
Stop advertising this useless Tool or show proof of that advantage.
Stop advertising this useless Tool or show proof of that advantage.
