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Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 02 Aug 2023, 09:46
by Caronizeeee
axaro1 wrote: ↑02 Aug 2023, 05:13
Caronizeeee wrote: ↑01 Aug 2023, 16:45
but then I would have to lower my refresh rate in NVCP, right?
Yes, to me the XV252QF worked the best by using a custom 240hz resolution with 1950 VT (
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZR3zksqrbrY).
This way 80-90% of the screen is pretty much crosstalkless when using VRB + the panel is much more compliant with 240hz so there is a little bit less trailing behind the ufo.
How can trailing get in the way of a competitive game in the real world? I can see trailing in UFO test depending on the speed, but I don't notice it in game. Would it "turn" into motion blur? Do you know if it would be possible to get the original timing of this monitor at "native" 390hz?
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 03 Aug 2023, 04:08
by axaro1
Caronizeeee wrote: ↑02 Aug 2023, 09:46
How can trailing get in the way of a competitive game in the real world? I can see trailing in UFO test depending on the speed, but I don't notice it in game. Would it "turn" into motion blur?
Personally I just struggle to recognize fine details during a teamfight.
Dark transitions especially struggle on the Acer, you may fail to discern what exactly you are looking at since the enemy that should look black is light grey if the background was white and vice versa. This is why I tend to call it smearing because it's different from just refresh-rate induced ghosting, even the targets that you are tracking with your eyes are not entirely recognizable because they are just approximations of the color target.
Ingame the trailing that you see on the UFO apply to basically every single pixel transition. You rarely play a game where a huge part of the screen retain the same color and barely gets refreshed like in the case of the Ufotest background.
To understand what I mean you should take an ingame screenshot and use it as user1.png/user2.png in Smoothfrog with an ingame speed of 2160/2880px/sec.
Realistically, you move your screen with WASD + your mouse + enemies also move independently so I genuinely believe that even speeds up to 3840px/sec translate into real world scenarios.
What I personally learned is that I'd rather have a lower refresh rate but fully compliant monitor than a higher refresh rate monitor that can't keep up with its own refresh rate. Reason why I still rate the X25 better than the XV252QF.
Caronizeeee wrote: ↑02 Aug 2023, 09:46
Do you know if it would be possible to get the original timing of this monitor at "native" 390hz?
Are you asking this because you are currently using a a custom resolution?
If the answer is yes you can either delete the profile in the Nvidia control panel (if you created the res in NVCP) or click reset-all.exe followed by restart64.exe if you used CRU.
If the answer is no, the monitor should automatically show the native 390hz resolution(390.30hz with my unit) displayed by the EDID but this is only present if you enabled the Overclocking setting. If it doesn't work you should try to reset your monitor settings in the OSD.
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 03 Aug 2023, 10:50
by Caronizeeee
axaro1 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 04:08
Caronizeeee wrote: ↑02 Aug 2023, 09:46
How can trailing get in the way of a competitive game in the real world? I can see trailing in UFO test depending on the speed, but I don't notice it in game. Would it "turn" into motion blur?
Personally I just struggle to recognize fine details during a teamfight.
Dark transitions especially struggle on the Acer, you may fail to discern what exactly you are looking at since the enemy that should look black is light grey if the background was white and vice versa. This is why I tend to call it smearing because it's different from just refresh-rate induced ghosting, even the targets that you are tracking with your eyes are not entirely recognizable because they are just approximations of the color target.
Ingame the trailing that you see on the UFO apply to basically every single pixel transition. You rarely play a game where a huge part of the screen retain the same color and barely gets refreshed like in the case of the Ufotest background.
To understand what I mean you should take an ingame screenshot and use it as user1.png/user2.png in Smoothfrog with an ingame speed of 2160/2880px/sec.
Realistically, you move your screen with WASD + your mouse + enemies also move independently so I genuinely believe that even speeds up to 3840px/sec translate into real world scenarios.
What I personally learned is that I'd rather have a lower refresh rate but fully compliant monitor than a higher refresh rate monitor that can't keep up with its own refresh rate. Reason why I still rate the X25 better than the XV252QF.
Caronizeeee wrote: ↑02 Aug 2023, 09:46
Do you know if it would be possible to get the original timing of this monitor at "native" 390hz?
Are you asking this because you are currently using a a custom resolution?
If the answer is yes you can either delete the profile in the Nvidia control panel (if you created the res in NVCP) or click reset-all.exe followed by restart64.exe if you used CRU.
If the answer is no, the monitor should automatically show the native 390hz resolution(390.30hz with my unit) displayed by the EDID but this is only present if you enabled the Overclocking setting. If it doesn't work you should try to reset your monitor settings in the OSD.
I'm asking this because unfortunately my XV252Q unit flashes with "native" OC 390. But using the trick of creating a custom resolution in NVCP, at 390hz, with manual timing it stops blinking immediately. The trick is to turn off the "OC" on the monitor, forcing it to go to 360hz, create a custom resolution in NVCP of 390hz with manual timing and apply, and after that turn on the OC in the monitor's OSD again. But I'm afraid I'm losing some kind of performance compared to using native 390hz, such as input lag, blurring or any other problem that could be added that way, could you tell me? Anyway I'll post a print of the times I'm using in NVCP in case you can help me. It seems that the game is a little worse this way than using the "native" 390hz monitor, even with non-stop blinking, despite having tested it for a short time, I think it could be a placebo.
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 03 Aug 2023, 11:20
by Caronizeeee
I also took some pictures of the frame skipping test, some come out perfectly, but others come out with some "cropped" frames? Would that be a problem? What can this be?
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 03 Aug 2023, 14:00
by axaro1
Caronizeeee wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 11:20
I also took some pictures of the frame skipping test, some come out perfectly, but others come out with some "cropped" frames? Would that be a problem? What can this be?
Maybe Chief can shed some light on the cropped frames, I don't think that your monitor is frame skipping since there's a visible frame. It's probably a browser issue.
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 04 Aug 2023, 00:41
by antiblur
I do not find Aksaro's arguments fair. Aksaro does not describe the whole picture, he notes the strengths of tn and the weaknesses of ipies, while tn also has flaws that make it unsuitable for shooters. So for me the main drawback was the pixel inversion, which was in 2 out of 3 game monitors (in one of the two 2546k and in the x25 omen). You can talk about blurring, about crosstalk, about not fast enough color transition and pixel response, but pixel inversion is worth all this for me personally. When pixels (and therefore the image itself) move out in front of your eyes, this corrects your aiming. Firstly, it confuses for a split second, and secondly, it forces you to adapt. I prefer to play with as few distractions as possible. Therefore, xf252qf is the best monitor for me, despite the flicker. vrb in my case is at the extreme mark, it makes this monitor little different from tons of models that I had from memory, while this monitor is much more responsive, and the brightness in my case hardly suffers (perhaps due to a flickering bug, but Initially, the brightness fell more strongly according to my feelings). On the other hand, the monitor itself is problematic (flickering), so you still have to compromise, but I don’t see alternatives for this price on the market. You can spend a lot of money on a 2566k, but I don't think it will give you any meaningful jump in gaming performance or efficiency.
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 04 Aug 2023, 00:43
by antiblur
I do not find Aksaro's arguments fair. Aksaro does not describe the whole picture, he notes the strengths of tn and the weaknesses of ipies, while tn also has flaws that make it unsuitable for shooters. So for me the main drawback was the pixel inversion, which was in 2 out of 3 game monitors (in one of the two 2546k and in the x25 omen). You can talk about blurring, about crosstalk, about not fast enough color transition and pixel response, but pixel inversion is worth all this for me personally. When pixels (and therefore the image itself) move out in front of your eyes, this corrects your aiming. Firstly, it confuses for a split second, and secondly, it forces you to adapt. I prefer to play with as few distractions as possible. Therefore, xf252qf is the best monitor for me, despite the flicker. vrb in my case is at the extreme mark, it makes this monitor little different from TNs models that I had from memory, while this monitor is much more responsive, and the brightness in my case hardly suffers (perhaps due to a flickering bug, but Initially, the brightness fell more strongly according to my feelings). On the other hand, the monitor itself is problematic (flickering), so you still have to compromise, but I don’t see alternatives for this price on the market. You can spend a lot of money on a 2566k, but I don't think it will give you any meaningful jump in gaming performance or efficiency.
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 04 Aug 2023, 17:49
by Deadmanx
antiblur wrote: ↑04 Aug 2023, 00:43
I do not find Aksaro's arguments fair. Aksaro does not describe the whole picture, he notes the strengths of tn and the weaknesses of ipies, while tn also has flaws that make it unsuitable for shooters. So for me the main drawback was the pixel inversion, which was in 2 out of 3 game monitors (in one of the two 2546k and in the x25 omen). You can talk about blurring, about crosstalk, about not fast enough color transition and pixel response, but pixel inversion is worth all this for me personally. When pixels (and therefore the image itself) move out in front of your eyes, this corrects your aiming. Firstly, it confuses for a split second, and secondly, it forces you to adapt. I prefer to play with as few distractions as possible. Therefore, xf252qf is the best monitor for me, despite the flicker. vrb in my case is at the extreme mark, it makes this monitor little different from TNs models that I had from memory, while this monitor is much more responsive, and the brightness in my case hardly suffers (perhaps due to a flickering bug, but Initially, the brightness fell more strongly according to my feelings). On the other hand, the monitor itself is problematic (flickering), so you still have to compromise, but I don’t see alternatives for this price on the market. You can spend a lot of money on a 2566k, but I don't think it will give you any meaningful jump in gaming performance or efficiency.
could not agree more on cost/performance... you won't see anything better out of the 2566k vs the acer 390hz not real world (game play) scenarios anyways.. could never justify the cost difference
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 23 Aug 2023, 04:52
by Sirius
antiblur wrote: ↑04 Aug 2023, 00:43
I do not find Aksaro's arguments fair. Aksaro does not describe the whole picture, he notes the strengths of tn and the weaknesses of ipies, while tn also has flaws that make it unsuitable for shooters. So for me the main drawback was the pixel inversion, which was in 2 out of 3 game monitors (in one of the two 2546k and in the x25 omen). You can talk about blurring, about crosstalk, about not fast enough color transition and pixel response, but pixel inversion is worth all this for me personally. When pixels (and therefore the image itself) move out in front of your eyes, this corrects your aiming. Firstly, it confuses for a split second, and secondly, it forces you to adapt. I prefer to play with as few distractions as possible. Therefore, xf252qf is the best monitor for me, despite the flicker. vrb in my case is at the extreme mark, it makes this monitor little different from TNs models that I had from memory, while this monitor is much more responsive, and the brightness in my case hardly suffers (perhaps due to a flickering bug, but Initially, the brightness fell more strongly according to my feelings). On the other hand, the monitor itself is problematic (flickering), so you still have to compromise, but I don’t see alternatives for this price on the market. You can spend a lot of money on a 2566k, but I don't think it will give you any meaningful jump in gaming performance or efficiency.
Interesting ! can you say more about the Pixel Inversion?
How does it translate into games (on Apex Legends for example which has a lot of elements to display)
Because I have an XL2566K, I admit that even with DyAc 360hz/240FPS lock or 180hz QFT on CRU, I take time to focus with my eyes at times, is it because of that?
Re: Why are there no other 360hz TN panels?
Posted: 02 Mar 2025, 08:01
by NSR333
Does anyone have any recommendations for a 24.5” 360HZ TN panel that isn’t the Zowie? Ideally looking to spend max £400. I play counter strike at a high competitive level so need the best monitor.
If the Zowie XL2566K really is the best I will save for it, but I just need some opinions from people who know more than me before I spend £600 on a monitor. Thanks in advance!